turners what is the point

[kye5 0]

why join the board ? then six months on we cannot afford 1M for a decent centre half who has proved himself here and wants to come here, how much do they expect to pay .forget shola on big wages on loan the defence has been the problem for ages now ,we sorted it out, then were back to square one again .it will cost us more than 1M if we go down thats for sure

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

[quote user="kye5"]why join the board ? then six months on we cannot afford 1M for a decent centre half who has proved himself here and wants to come here, how much do they expect to pay .forget shola on big wages on loan the defence has been the problem for ages now ,we sorted it out, then were back to square one again .it will cost us more than 1M if we go down thats for sure[/quote]

 

We are not back to square one at all.

The reason the defence couldnt cope was because the midfield was trash.

We have strength in depth midfield wise now, thus making the defenses job more easy.

Its a blow to loose someone like taylor, but he is one of 11 players on the pitch, and over the last few weeks they have all upped there game.

Lets wait and see how we fair without him, i mean its not like we have a choice anyway is it ?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="kye5"]why join the board ? then six months on we cannot afford 1M for a decent centre half who has proved himself here and wants to come here, how much do they expect to pay .forget shola on big wages on loan the defence has been the problem for ages now ,we sorted it out, then were back to square one again .it will cost us more than 1M if we go down thats for sure[/quote]

Obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense. Unfortunately those in power can borrow millions for new offices and roads but can''t see the need for a decent centre half.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

How much are we expecting to spend in signing a rock at the back??   I mean 10 years ago Mackay set us back £350,000!!

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

Its a bit odd they were given seats on the board for basically adding to our debt. Great, thanks alot.

I''d love to think they will provide for the club (and hopefully they will eventually), but why do I feel they simply want to look good to their clients at Central Trust "Hey, we''re on the board at a local football club, impressed?"

[T 190]

So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

Yes.

[Mason 47 1,379]

I thought that the Turners Two Million went towards our debt...

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]LOL..... I wouldn''t waste your keyboard..... they dont get it.....

[Mello Yello 2,293]

[quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]

"A LOAN" = money borrowed at interest.......Just to clarify.

How are we to know what the loan was spent on? Two-thirds of the concrete and tarmac road? Wages for the squad? Replacement top o'' the range cooking ranges in the restaurants? New carpets, paint and decor and open-plan expensive furniture for the ''nearly new'' office refurbishment?

I would prefer to know what the 2 million was actually spent on. Hopefully on strengthening the squad and not strengthening infrastructure and "off the field projects".

I''m extremely overjoyed that they loaned 2 million to the club.......but what are their intentions and their true agenda? I wasn''t overly impressed by Mr Turner''s comment''s at the not-so recent AGM.....he sounded a bit like ''the kitten that roared''.......We''ll see in the coming months (including the January transfer window) if they''re walking the walk talking the talk etc, and all the other cliches......[^o)]  

 

[Mello Yello 2,293]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]

LOL..... I wouldn''t waste your keyboard..... they dont get it.....
[/quote]

Get what?[:|]

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

Re: Turners, what is the point? If they add nothing significant to Glenn''s transfer budget, they serve no useful purpose by being on the board. They are a waste of space.

[Ivana_rubyatitz 6]

[quote user="the1englishman"]

The reason the defence couldnt cope was because the midfield was trash.

We have strength in depth midfield wise now, thus making the defenses job more easy.

Its a blow to loose someone like taylor, but he is one of 11 players on the pitch, and over the last few weeks they have all upped there game.

[/quote]

I actually agree with the thrust of your argument here, however the weaknesses in your logic is that (as was the case with Taylor) a significant chunk of the added strength in midfield is also on loan.  If Pattison follows the same path out of the club where does that leave the midlfield?  Likewise if Sven refuses to extend the Evans loan, what then?

Loans paper over cracks without addressing the fundamental problem - a permanent squad too small and too weak to compete successfully.  It may just be a coinciedence, but it is odd how the upturn in our form took place at the same time as Roeder brought in two or three Premiership quality players.

We need to strengthen permanently in January rather than more loans - I just hope the board/Turners have the balls to put the cash up.

[whoareyou? 0]

I think you might find that their business is being affected by this worldwide credit crunch problem. It''s not easy for company''s like theirs to find money to run their own business at the moment, let alone giving it away to others.

[First Wizard 0]

whoareyou said:

I think you might find that their business is being affected by this worldwide credit crunch problem. It''s not easy for company''s like theirs to find money to run their own business at the moment, let alone giving it away to others.

Then they are next to useless for us and should sod off!.

[T07 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]LOL..... I wouldn''t waste your keyboard..... they dont get it.....[/quote]

Get what?[:|]

[/quote]My point exactly

[T 190]

Wiz, would you like them to S** off with or without taking their 2m loan with them?

[Mello Yello 2,293]

[quote user="T07"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]

LOL..... I wouldn''t waste your keyboard..... they dont get it.....
[/quote]

Get what?[:|]

[/quote]

My point exactly
[/quote]

Your point''s are blunt and boring......and so are you.[|-)] Ner ner ne ner ner!

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="T07"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="T"]So just to clarify are you suggesting you would prefer that the Turners had not given the club a 2 million loan and we had 2 million less to spend this year?[/quote]

LOL..... I wouldn''t waste your keyboard..... they dont get it.....
[/quote]

Get what?[:|]

[/quote]

My point exactly
[/quote]

You seem to be a bit of a financial Bod T07, perhaps you could give me some advice.

I''m up to my neck in debt, a monthly payment every day of the month and I''m using the Barclaycard to pay off the mortgage. Now my wife has seen a Company advertising constantly on TV who offer to consolidate all our debts into one easy payment (you know the ones "In debt borrow more" type of ads). She thinks we should take out a loan with this company and pay off all our immediate creditors, after all spreading the store card and car finance etc over 10-15 years reduces the payments to just about a third of their current rates even if it does increase the length of time we are in debt considerably.  Of course we''ll have to borrow a bit more than we actually owe  to cover the fees and things and the total amount repayable actually increases but at least we''ll be able to afford to pay our bills again and we''ll have a little bit of spare cash to play with.

 I''m against this, as I see it all we are doing is getting even deeper in debt but disguising this fact by spreading the debt over a longer period to create the short term benefit of more manageable repayments. I''d rather tough it out for a year or so, reduce the debt and free up some of our own money but I get confused when I hear experts such as yourselves advocating that it is quite acceptable practice to borrow more money to get out of debt. Maybe in a scenario where that money is invested to provide a future income this is good practice but where the borrowed money is used simply to service existing debt it seems to be the wrong thing to do.

The Club have effectively borrowed £2,000.000 from the Turners. If this had been invested say in the team, it may have generated a future income but using it to balance this years books is a very short term temporary solution to a long term problem.

[ca 1]

Gaaza suggests that the Turners will come good for us and I''d like to hope she''s right but its been 8 months since they joined and I think its about time that they told us what their plans are.

Are they going to invest some of their money to help us get back into the Premiership or not?

 

[ca 1]

Mr & Mrs Turner,

If you''re reading this we need £1.1m to buy Tiny Taylor, so it time for you to help us out [:)]

CA

P.S. I wouldn''t have needed to be asked if I was in your financial position!

[First Wizard 0]

cityangel:  P.S. I wouldn''t have needed to be asked if I was in your financial position!

Well said Angel, I believe most of us feel this way. Personally, my view on the Turners is that they are just local wannabee board members who only suck up to Delia Smith...............and are nothing more than that!.[:|]

[Arthur Whittle 0]

I always thought the 2 million loan was so we didnt have to sell the likes of Earnshaw, which we went on to do anyway. I wonder where that money really went?

[T 190]

CA - I have no doubt you would. Just curious has anyone had a look at the Central Trust accounts to see how much they take out of the business in terms of earnings and divis and then we may have an idea of have much cash they have as opposed to the value of their business if they sold it in the future. It may be that there their business is also impacted by the credit crunch which has been a nightmare for the loan market since last summer. I suspect that they must be giving some support though as otherwise it is difficult to know where the money for loans and talk of new players is coming from given the underlying losses excluding parachute payments in last year''s accounts.

[ca 1]

T,

Where can you access their accounts ?

All I can find is that their company is worth about £350m and that these are the companies they own.

Central Trust PLC Parent Central Capital Limited Subsidiary Brokerage Central Loans Limited Subsidiary Packaging Central Mortgages Limited Subsidiary Brokerage Central Credit Limited Subsidiary Brokerage Central IVA Processing Limited Subsidiary Packaging Central Sales Limited Subsidiary Sales Central Lending Limited Subsidiary Loan Lending Central Lending Funding Number One Limited Subsidiary Funding Central Homeloans Limited Subsidiary Mortgage Lending Central Homeloans Funding Number One Limited Subsidiary Funding Central Group Limited Subsidiary Malta Holding Co. Central General Limited Subsidiary General Insurance Central Life Limited Subsidiary Life Assurance Mobile Money Limited Subsidiary Loan Lending

They''ve had the best part of the year to get to grips with how the club runs ,what I would like from them now is a statement as to what their intentions are for the future, 2008 in particular. If they are going to invest money in the club, fine, if not we need to know because we''ll need to continue to look for an investor.

[T 190]

The accounts can be downloaded from the Companies House website - all the relevant information should be in the consolidated accounts of the Central Trust plc parent company which I think can be downloaded for a quid but it looks like the website is down until the 30 December.

According to the Central Trust website they made a profit before tax of 27,4m in 2005 which makes their business worth about 300m at a reasonable approximation. They seem to own 100% so their share would be worth 300m less any debts owed by the Group. This is off course only the paper value of their business and doesn''t represent their available cash unless their decide to sell their business.

When I was looking for this information I saw the original Turner quote about the ambition being the premiership. This is an easy and obvious line but I''m sure they are bright enough to work out that a 2m loan might not do the trick when we are up against clubs with 7m extra parachute payments and clubs owned by billionaires. Hopefully intentions will become start to become clearer in January although my feeling is it could take a while. I''m still hoping Mr callum also gets involved but I can''t see this happening until he sells his business which is very unlikey to happen until whenever the global credit market settles down. I also saw the actual Delia/MWJ quote on selling up and it actually says they would only sell up to someone who was looking to invest serious money in the team which is quite different to the impression I got from reading this board.

[DTT 0]

This is notr a direct reply to anyone in particular, just a take on the turner situation. What you have to bear in mind, is that these people ultimatly are businessmen/women. They didnt get the money they''ve got by throwing it at a lost cause. They''ve helped us out at a time in need through a low interest loan. No sensible business person would have thrown money at the club this season. It would have been silly. If roeder can really show that he can keep us up (its still VERY early days yet), then im confident they will inject more cash. They may well be worth 300 million, but theyre business is loans and mortgages, so they dont have 300 million available cash to spend. The majority of this is tied up already in loans, mortgages and assets. Theres a lot of difference between a person ''worth'' 300 million and a person with 300 million in the bank. Now dont get me wrong, i firmly believe that our board is very quiet about how much availble money we REALLY have, and im sure they try and make out our financial position is far more dire than it really is. They dont want to gamble so they make out that we''re struggling financially. Our gate receipts alone should mean we have more available income than most other clubs. I just think that the board likes to show theyre backing the manager to the absolute maximum, but i dont think thats really happened yet. I''m sure roeder will get at least 4 million to spend in january, and if he really proves he can do something he will get a lot more next season. The board learnt theyre lessson i think with worthington and theyre prudence with ambition thing. Now the turners are involved, i wouldn''t be suprised if there was suddenly a lot of money spent in the next 5 years provided roeder performs. The premiership is worth so much money now, that they will be happy to invest as long as they felt a good chance of a return. Its all down to economics these days not football. You invest if you can make from it, not for the sake of it.

[Big Down Under 0]

T wrote the following post at 27/12/2007 1:02 PM:

The

accounts can be downloaded from the Companies House website - all the

relevant information should be in the consolidated accounts of the

Central Trust plc parent company which I think can be downloaded for a

quid but it looks like the website is down until the 30 December.

According to the Central Trust website they made a profit before tax

of 27,4m in 2005 which makes their business worth about 300m at a

reasonable approximation. They seem to own 100% so their share would be

worth 300m less any debts owed by the Group. This is off course only

the paper value of their business and doesn''t represent their available

cash unless their decide to sell their business.

When I was looking for this information I saw the original Turner

quote about the ambition being the premiership. This is an easy and

obvious line but I''m sure they are bright enough to work out that a 2m

loan might not do the trick when we are up against clubs with 7m extra

parachute payments and clubs owned by billionaires. Hopefully

intentions will become start to become clearer in January although my

feeling is it could take a while. I''m still hoping Mr callum also gets

involved but I can''t see this happening until he sells his business

which is very unlikey to happen until whenever the global credit market

settles down. I also saw the actual Delia/MWJ quote on selling up and

it actually says they would only sell up to someone who was looking to

invest serious money in the team which is quite different to the

impression I got from reading this board.

T If you have this link I would love to see it. You won''t get much of a balanced view of our board on this site unless you write it yourself.

[T 190]

BDU: Delia quotes from BBC report on AGM of 18 January 2007:

Nobody has ever come forward and said `I''ll give you this amount of money for a seat on the board.` Nobody''s ever done it," she said.

"And if somebody offered Michael and I a large amount of money for our shares what''s that going to do?

"It''s going to give us a lot of money, but it''s not going to do anything for the club," she added.

"The only way we would relinquish our shares is if somebody''s going to put invest in the football with serious money for the squad, and it has to be someone honourable," she added.

"They have to be people that we all think would be good custodians of this football club, because we nearly lost it ten years ago and that''s a possibility again if it''s not looked after properly and nurtured," she added.

Quote from last AGM: "We have always said that we would welcome new finance coming into the club and new directors on the Board if they shared our values and passion for Norwich City"

I usually find it more informative to read all the actual original quotes rather than the reporting of them as its the job of the media to sell news rather than represent the truth in a balanced and accurate manner. Similarly, most of us tend to put our own spin on events.

 

[T 190]

I also found this quote from Andrew Turner as reported on the bbc website at the time they got involved interesting:

"Ultimately, what''s our goal? We want to be back in the Premiership, we haven''t come here to stay in the Championship. It''s a start, then we''ll see where we go from there."