Doherty

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Doherty, what should we do with him, what are your opinions on him?

I personally think he''s one up for debate, as at times, he can look a pretty good player, but then he can go on long spells of ****ness. He''s consistent i suppose, but he''ll be consistently good for a while, and consistently useless for a while. In my books, he shouldn''t be an automatic starter, and i would start preseason (in the hope we get someone in the Davenport/ O''Brien mould) playing the new guy and shackell, whilst trying to give the likes of Jarvis a runout or 2. Docs would be given his fair share too, but as 3rd fiddle, with the hope he can do ok and force his way into the XI. No doubt about it in my opinion, one of his worst attributes is how he''s slow to react, and not the best on the ball. Other than that, he''s a good defender, good in the air, strong and good at making tackles.

One thing for certain tho, and that is that he isn''t good enough up front!

[Canary in the Forest 0]

Fouls too much

[Salopian 1]

We may get an idea of PG''s valuation of the Doc in pre-season - in the earlier warm up games every squad member will get a game and we shall see who is paired with whom. For the last few games, against better opposition, we shall see the pairings which are likely to be used in the league programme. Doc could come back fitter and more mobile, and surprise us, but....I think that we are short in that area - only Shacks, Doc and Dion, and I am surprised that so far PG has not signed anyone, (-there is still time, but...) As things are , with one or two injuries or suspensions, we would be scraping the barrel, and this is not good.In terms of performance, unless the strikers completely fail to perform, I can see Shacks and Dion as the first choice, with the Doc mostly on the bench. Dion could probably manage 90 minutes twice a week in the defence better than the running he would need as a striker.I still hope that we shall sign a younger centre back, and that we sign one on loan at the very least.(I used to be be a Davenport fan, but I don''t think he has fulfilled his earlier promise and he is perhaps not the player he was. Perhaps he has not had a settled career since leaving Coventry.)

[blahblahblah 2]

It could be that PG wants to see how Shacks and Doc fare with the new signings like Brellier, Marhsall and Otsemobor around them, before deciding whether to bring someone else in.  With Brellier providing the defensive midfield cover we''ve been lacking, and the goalkeeper spot sorted for this season, we might see renewed confidence from the back 4.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

He is shakey as anything, cannot organise the defense (even tho he is vice captain [:S])  And leaves our defensive unit looking poor.  We have conceded more goals these last two seasons than anytime in the past 10 years.  There has to be a major problem at centre half.

SOmeone did some analysis about Dion''s effects, we never collapsed with him at the back. Donkerty on the other hand....

He needs replacing as a first XIer ASAP

[Dowp End 0]

We never know which Doc is going to show up----In some games he has been tremendous and has been in the past the occasional game saver but they are a tad far and few between and how many times have we conceded goals from free kicks from his fouls--never see him create a break from defence and only seems to find touch---Still like him but am very undecided---Is very much looking like a Div 1 bruiser nowadays I feel--

[Wings 0]

Crucially, the number 5 shirt in the squad is up for grabs. I suspect that means a central defender will be brought in, and that he could well be the regular partner for one Jason Shackell.

[ZLF 274]

Its a difficult one.  He looks awkward and clumsy so fails to inspire confidence;  however he actually conceeds fewer free kicks per game and fewer in danmgerous positions than his colleagues while bettering (very very marginally) the goal conceeded per game ratio of either dion or Shacks 

The only multiple goal conceeded game involving Dion was Sheff weds I think, so we did have a collapse with Dion at the back - but just the once - but he kept feweer clean sheets per appearance than either Shax or Doc. 

The reality is that there is less than a gnats chuff of difference in real performance terms (goals/free kicks conceed per game/points won per game) between the three centre backs, with only the perception of ''confidence and organisation'' separating a god like Dion from the laughing stock Doc. What good is appearing confident if we conceed as many goals (actually more) overall and win the same (slightly less in fact) points per game??   

With a better structured team (eg no hux at left midfield), playing to strikers strengths and passing the ball I still feel that the coming to its best partnership of Doc/Shax should be good enough in this league.  

Centre back is a partnership so Dion can only be cover;  his legs will not last a full season;  chopping and changing partnerhsips week in week out will create confusion and lead to more goals conceeded.  If a serious injury hits we do need decent cover,  davenport may fit that bill but he was not any better than we already have.

[nutty nigel 7,599]

[quote user="Dowp End"]We never know which Doc is going to show up----
In some games he has been tremendous and has been in the past the occasional game saver but they are a tad far and few between and how many times have we conceded goals from free kicks from his fouls--
never see him create a break from defence and only seems to find touch---Still like him but am very undecided---Is very much looking like a Div 1 bruiser nowadays I feel--
[/quote]

I would be quite happy for Doherty to be replaced if we could get better as I would any other player. He is not the best centreback ever to play for us and neither is he the worst. He has his faults and it doesn''t help his cause that he appears awkward and ungainly and when he makes an error it''s sometimes of catastrophic proportions.

Having said that I believe he is a better defender than he gets credit for and I don''t understand why posters continually make up stuff to discredit him. How many times have you seen us concede goals from Doherty''s fouls Dowp End? I go to most games home and away and I only remember once, the second goal against Plymouth but even that was widely regarded as a refereeing error. We have conceded more goals from freekicks conceded by Shackell and Dublin. He also passes the ball out of defence better than Shackell and I''ve seen goals scored after he has found the space for Hucks to exploit. Two that immediately spring to mind are the first goal at Tamworth last season and the goal Hucks scored to beat the biners the season before.

Most people seemed to expect Doherty to be on his bike this summer but Grant must see something and although I hope we sign a strong commanding centre back I have no doubt that The Doc can do a good job for us at this level.

 

 

[O.T.B.C 0]

But is Shacks up to the task too? Sometimes he looks like he is going to be top class, other times I think he looks crap, Dublin shouts and screams at him and makes him play good but without someone to shout at him he looks weak and we know that we can''t have Dublin for long.

[Bundy 0]

He''s an utter liability. Always the wrong side, so always struggling, so giving away fouls on the edge of the box left right and centre, which admittedly may not be quite so costly with Gallagher out of the way, still we conceded more free kick goals last season than I can ever remember. Puts the frighteners up Shackell (needs a good start or he''s out too) and has an unearing ability to do a Braveheart on the Friday in the Pink un only to be a shambles the following day (please editors ignore him next season).

Loved him when he came on at Man U in his first game and nearly got us a draw and then did so at Newcastle. All downhill from there however. Got us relegated when against Spurs at home in trying to keep out their second goal on Boxing Day injured both Bentley and Saffri. Our disastrous run followed. Unlucky or clumsy? If only someone would put in a bid, any money we got for him would be a bonus.

Centre half could be the last piece in the jigsaw to a good season, but possibly also the most important.

[Buncey 1]

Difference between Dublin and Doherty. Dublin has a footballing brain and commands his defence, wheread Doherty is a bit thick and slow (in thinking wise) and so all his tackles end up being last ditch tackles. Overall Dublin is head and shoulders above Doherty, just for the fact he completely makes the defence play better as a whole.

[Norwich R Us 59]

from the offy site..."A full Republic of Ireland international, at his best the Doc is

a massive presence at the heart of Norwich''s defence. A former regular

for Spurs in the Premiership, Doherty is very good at reading the game

and strong in the air. Has been used as an emergency striker in the

past, and will want to get more goals from set-plays."

someone needs to get fired for that one! the only thing he inspires is panic and confusion please granty, replace ASAP!!!!!!!!!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

And here are the stats.
With Dublin in a defensive role (inc 2 sub appearances at 72 and 80mins):
P13---W6---L5---D2
46% win ratio, 38.5% loss ratio
3 Goals, 5 Man of the Match displays

With Doherty in defence:
P35---W12---L15---D7
0 Goals, 1 Man of the Match display
34% win ratio, 43% loss ratio

With Dublin in an attacking role (inc 5 sub appearances at 61, 66, 53, 72 and 54 mins):
P16---W2---L10---D4
3 Goals, 1 Man of the Match display

http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/2/937311/ShowPost.aspx#937311

 

Hopefully if Dohertyt does play he will recapture the early season form of 2 years ago.

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="Fellas"]Difference between Dublin and Doherty. Dublin has a footballing brain and commands his defence, wheread Doherty is a bit thick and slow (in thinking wise) and so all his tackles end up being last ditch tackles. Overall Dublin is head and shoulders above Doherty, just for the fact he completely makes the defence play better as a whole.
[/quote]

The likes of Malky, Ferdinand (R), Terry, Walker, Moore and adams are/were all exponents of the last ditch tackle - not sure what that means really?

Football is a results game;  our didnt change whether doc was in or not,  the conclusion must be he doesnt make that much difference either way.

Getting a settled partnership is far more important - I think there were only 2 runs of 5 consecutive games where the same partnership appeared for city last season and that has to change.  

[0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

You can''t imagine PG doesn''t feel GD needs replacing, if not all the previous goodwill felt towards him for transfer dealings to date will be for nought.  I hope I am right if not you cannot be confident about next season. 

[Buncey 1]

Im sorry Zipper that i didn''t make myself clearer. You are correct with malky etc. However the players you list made those tackles from positions they never should have won the ball from. Doherty has to last ditch takle due to his lack of speed, poor positioning and usually because he was to slow to react and tackle earlier when he had a better chance. A great example was the goals we conceded against luton.