the dangers of spending big!

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Exactly. In general over the last 3/4 years when we have gambled with a big signing they have paid off. Mainly because we have gone for the win/win signing. [/quote]

With the benefit of hindsight they are win-win.  Had Ashton got injured for a prolonged period, failed to settle in and struggled to find fitness as others have, you would have had a different opinion of him.

Would you have signed a player who was averaging 15 goals a season over 3 seasons in a mid-table Championship club ?  A player who previously had a 40 goal a season partnership with another of your strikers ?  If you would have, congratulations, you just signed Peter Thorne.

Seems to me the argument here is that it''s easy to get the right players, you just sign the right ones.  Just don''t sign anyone who''s, you know, not right.  How do you know if they''re right for your team ?  Until you sign them, you don''t.

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Exactly. In general over the last 3/4 years when we have gambled with a big signing they have paid off. Mainly because we have gone for the win/win signing. [/quote]

With the benefit of hindsight they are win-win.  Had Ashton got injured for a prolonged period, failed to settle in and struggled to find fitness as others have, you would have had a different opinion of him.

Would you have signed a player who was averaging 15 goals a season over 3 seasons in a mid-table Championship club ?  A player who previously had a 40 goal a season partnership with another of your strikers ?  If you would have, congratulations, you just signed Peter Thorne.

Seems to me the argument here is that it''s easy to get the right players, you just sign the right ones.  Just don''t sign anyone who''s, you know, not right.  How do you know if they''re right for your team ?  Until you sign them, you don''t.

[/quote]

Yes, but on that basis you would never sign anyone! All signings are gambles but the 3 "biggest" signings of the last 3/4 years where calculated gambles - in Hux you had a player who at the time was simply too good for the division, Ashton a young highly rated player who had moved up a level in performance in his last 4 months at Crewe and Earnie a guaranteed (near enough) goal grabber at Champs level. Thorne was 32 and unlikely to attract a fee again in his career! Likewise Robinson had never moved for a fee until we bought him. Louis-Jean & Hughes were average championship players. I don''t have a problem with signing these type of players as long as they are squad players - in fairness Thorne was signed as back up to Ashton & MacKenzie. However, since relegation the "first eleven" has been flooded with these journeyman type players who simply aren''t going to get you promotion too often. When we won promotion it was on the back of a star signing in Hux, some good signings of younger players from the smaller clubs in Drury, Mackenzie, Francis and a solid group of players who had been together for 3/4 years in Green, Mackay, Fleming, Roberts, Holt, McVeigh and Mulryne. Factor in a couple of journeyman in Edworthy & Svenson and VOILA!

We have to accept that we are a selling club (as is nearly everyone else!) and on that basis we should be signing players with half an eye on selling them for a profit. Like it or not that is the truth. We have done it throughout the 25 years I have been attending Carrow Road. I can''t see too many profits and future stars in what we have signed thus far but hopefully I will be proved wrong.

[Mr.Carrow 380]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Spending big CAN get you promotion but was Wolves are aware it far from guarantees success.  Several clubs spent large last season and failed and are losing key players - eg Soton and Baggies.   

City could splash 2/3 years of transfer budgets this summer and sign ''quality'', ''good value'' players but still not get promoted for any one of 100 reasons,  and leave us broke for the next couple of years. Like Leeds or Man City before them, we would bounce back;  the only question would be how quickly.

However more fans would cry outrage if the club was left destitute and relegated trying to overstretch for a dream in a season; There has to be some plan for tomorrow and contingencies as well as being ambitious today.  Its a damn difficult one to balance and I for one am glad I dont have to make that call.

So far we seem to be having our best summers transfer activity in a long long while;  no, the mega stars we may want are not coming here but we are rebuilding a threadbare squad by filling the obvious gaps with young player who seem to have a future in the game.   Having to buy so many new faces this season always meant that we would have to pick and chose carefully,   but a £1m keeper and a couple of strikers who can score (top in their league) and free midfielder suggests that Grant is using the cash he has well to shape the squad as effectively as he could.  

Breaking the bank to get sign sharp and Marshall but not getting a right back, midfielder etc etc etc would not have made us competetive next season. 

More significantly most of our competitors have not gained a huge march on us with their signings;  reinforcing the feeling that the club is doing OK.

[/quote]

Once again the assumption is money spent on the team is automatically lost and if we fail to win promotion we would be "broke". We made massive profits on Ashton,Francis and Green and reasonable ones on Earnshaw,Jonsson and Mckenzie. Southampton have sold Bale for a large sum and Baird seems to be following for another large amount. West Brom are about to rake in £11million on Koumas and Kamara (£7million profit?). Both clubs could well be in a better position to challenge than we are next season-we haven`t even got any saleable assets left.

Since we have been relegated Eastwood,Halford,Sidwell,Koumas and Chopra have all been linked with us, but as soon as it became apparent that we would have to splash out a bit for them we lost interested and went for the old, cheap has-beens and never-weres. I know the argument by now- "Worthington didn`t want them anyway". For one, i don`t believe this for a second as he regularly moaned about how tight his budget was. Two, even if he refused to sign young, upcoming players with a sell-on potential the board should have got rid of him much sooner. The buck stops with them.

I think people should remind themselves that the only time the board have shown any ambition and splashed out a bit was when the fans laid millions in their laps to pay for Huckerby, Mckenzie, Svensson and later (through the non-redemption of the B shares) Ashton. Just how much money have the club made from those signings? They virtually bought us the massive windfall of promotion and we also made huge profits on Ashton and Mckenzie. And our thanks is to have the board fritter all those bonus millions away whilst the team is run on a shoestring budget, and we end up in a very similar position to where we started.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

The plain fact of the matter is that, all things being equal, the more you spend on players the greater the chances of success.

Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but these do not invalidate it.

Obviously a ''good'' board, a ''good'' manager and a ''good'' youth system help to tilt the balance towards success. As do wise transfer dealings - selling at the right time to strengthen and renew what is left. But, quiet lad, this is old-fashioned South, Watling, Chase policy.

To repeat. Any way you take it, the more you spend, the greater your chances of success. but you have to plan the support and know what you are doing - and thats the real trick.

How do we stack up?

The supporters - yes.

The manager - maybe.

The Board - no.

The major investors - unlikely.

Afraid we''ll have to get very lucky to achieve this season.

Good luck Peter Grant. Investors - cough up - that''s what you''re here for - not to use our club as a rich person''s toy. Or get out.

There. Now I''ll shut up.

OTBC 

[ZLF 284]

As I said its a balancing act and given a choice of sharp or dave striker (both top scorers in their leagues, but one in their top tier and the other third tier but with a disproportionate cost differential) who can say we have got it right or wrong?  Yes the likes of Ashton netted a return and Earnie cost us nothing,  but in the main transfer fees are not recouped so generally is cash out of the club.  However when the club do buy big it does have an investment feel with a view to making a profit as well as benefitting the team.   

Investing in high transfer fees does carry a degree of risk that you appear to want to completely ignore - you can neither guarantee promotion (even a good season by spending millions) nor that the resale value will be there if you need cash urgently;   as Wimbledon saw whe we plundered Francis and Leeds with Robinson when you need to sell fee sizes are decimated as you simply need cash.      

With big transfer fees you will attract big wages, and that is money out of the club for good.  Pompey have eshown youcan get promotion withtransfer fees but thecash ends up out of the club anyway as it goes into the players pockets - which remains the biggest drain on any clubs finances,  when non appearing recent academy turned pros are allegedly earning £4k per week and citys prem players continuedon prem basic wages until the parachute money finished it doesnt take a genius towork out where the bonus millions have gone.

Due to poor choices over the two previous close seasons the club (primarily the manager despite what you say Mr Carrow) saddled itself with a small, high wage, aging, low in hunger squad bereft of team spirit and happy to draw substantial wages without committment onthe pitch.  That legacy is what Grant and the club are left with this summer; trying to rebuild a club from its lowest footballing ebb in recent history having been in the prem just 3 seasons ago having rewarded the players with substantial wages.

Real cash is generated by selling youth product, such as Green or identifying and signing cheaply talented youngsters and moving them on;  the profits from Mackenzie were small (£325k? bought, sold £600k?  agents fees both ends) as were ashtons post sell on clauses and deferred payments.   For each MacKenzie there is at least a Doc who is unlikely to get us that ''investment'' back and a Cureton who will ever cover his fee again.   

As I said I feel its a difficult balance to get right;  and even harder when so many new faces are needed from a budget never big enough for our dreams.  

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[Mello Yello 2,315]

The majority of our ''proposed/alleged'' targets, have probably played competitively against NCFC.......They''ve witnessed the packed stadium, the facilities, the hospitality/hostility, the fans........and all the other stuff like hot an'' cold water - and the mirrors in the changing rooms that aren''t cracked.

They''ve also spoken to our squad members - either socially, friendly, professionally, or on more unsociable terms.

I think the majority of our ''proposed/alleged'' targets, see and hear a lot more than we are privy to.......and therefore, choose to look further afield, and for better offers......For what reasons unknown to us cyber-oiks who - "know nowt, but know everything!"

Maybe it''s the wage structure? The ambition? The manager? The board? Or the "moanin'' minny''s that ''R'' us" that put a negatives on their signature.......[:|] 

Ashton''s ''Uncle'' Agent, and Earnie''s representative, probably thought it was Christmas when they came here..........and left with a tidy sum.......

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[/quote]

Nobody is asking the club to bankrupt itself.

All we want is for the club to reinvest the Earnie money (and any other fees recieved ) in new players.

It''s what Doncaster promised last week.

Of the £3.5 million recieved we have so far spent around £2.7 million and trousered the rest.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[/quote]

Nobody is asking the club to bankrupt itself.

All we want is for the club to reinvest the Earnie money (and any other fees recieved ) in new players.

It''s what Doncaster promised last week.

Of the £3.5 million recieved we have so far spent around £2.7 million and trousered the rest.

[/quote]

Never RICARDO... what are you suggesting young man???

Surely something unproper is not occuring at fortress Carrow Road???  [:D]

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[/quote]

Nobody is asking the club to bankrupt itself.

All we want is for the club to reinvest the Earnie money (and any other fees recieved ) in new players.

It''s what Doncaster promised last week.

Of the £3.5 million recieved we have so far spent around £2.7 million and trousered the rest.

[/quote]

Never RICARDO... what are you suggesting young man???

Surely something unproper is not occuring at fortress Carrow Road???  [:D]

[/quote]

Well Smudge, when you claimed we would spend nothing at all this season, I thought you were being unduly pesermistic.

Now it appears you were wildly optimistic because far from spending zero, we have gained £800k!

If Safri goes for the reported £1-1.5 million then it will be another one in the eye for the fans. I''m all for being careful with the finances but it certainly sends the wrong signal to me if we are not even spending as much as we recieve

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[/quote]

Nobody is asking the club to bankrupt itself.

All we want is for the club to reinvest the Earnie money (and any other fees recieved ) in new players.

It''s what Doncaster promised last week.

Of the £3.5 million recieved we have so far spent around £2.7 million and trousered the rest.

[/quote]

Never RICARDO... what are you suggesting young man???

Surely something unproper is not occuring at fortress Carrow Road???  [:D]

[/quote]

Well Smudge, when you claimed we would spend nothing at all this season, I thought you were being unduly pesermistic.

Now it appears you were wildly optimistic because far from spending zero, we have gained £800k!

If Safri goes for the reported £1-1.5 million then it will be another one in the eye for the fans. I''m all for being careful with the finances but it certainly sends the wrong signal to me if we are not even spending as much as we recieve

[/quote]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

I for one don''t agree. You can buy yourself out of this league. Ambitions attracts players. Players who want to play in the top league in the world. The purchase of some quality player which have to be paid for will encourage the other better free to sign players to join as well.

Eastwood and Sharp wouldn''t sign for us because we couldn''t convince them that we are promotion contenders.

That is also why we lost Earnshaw. We couldn''t get promotion last term and we couldn''t convince him that it would be any better this season.

The standard of football in this league means you need to spend £8 10mil to give yourself a very good chance of promotion. That would be enough to get in top championship players on a fee whilst enticing the freebies that your on the up.

This is not a massive gamble and if spent wisely the players will be worth that and more regardless of whether you get promoted or not. Safri is about to go for £1.5 mil you telling me if we had signed Sharp and Eastwood for £5-6mil and we failed to get up we wouldn''t get the money back. If we have the money now which to some extent we do then now would be the time to do it.

The biggest problem is we don''t have the managerial or board level clout do pull all the strings at the right time to make it happen.

But that''s a different issue altogether.

.

[/quote]

your missing the point i don''t dispute the fact that we could spend all this money and it might get us promoted but what if it doesn''t and we''re left with a huge gap in our finances the premiership money was supposed to fill? i''ll tell you what happens all the expensive players you signed will have to be returned and we''ll at best be back to square one and at worst in the sort of situation leeds find themselve''s in.

[/quote]

Your missing my point. Good players are worth money if you go up or not. Earnshaw didn''t go up but he was still worth good money.

I question whether we have the directors and management capable of spending it wisely enough.

Leeds is everybody''s example. But leeds spent badly. Whilst in the Premiership. We are talking about getting out of this league. By the time Leeds were a Championship team they were already doomed.

Bad investments will always be bad investments. Thats the key, get people who have the ability to make good investments. Other wise why bother. If were never going to compete then what difference is there between us and Leed of present. We''re both going nowhere fast.

No investment is risk free. But thats business, if done right reasonable investment should get you out of this very average league.

 

My point was that I don''t feel spending big is a bad thing if you do it right.

[/quote]

And i agree that you need to spend right but my point was that you can only spend what you can afford! my point is that you don''t take potentially fatal risks with something as important as ncfc.

Leeds did not spend badly they spent too much and then when they failed to make the champions league they were fu**ed

[/quote]

Nobody is asking the club to bankrupt itself.

All we want is for the club to reinvest the Earnie money (and any other fees recieved ) in new players.

It''s what Doncaster promised last week.

Of the £3.5 million recieved we have so far spent around £2.7 million and trousered the rest.

[/quote]

Never RICARDO... what are you suggesting young man???

Surely something unproper is not occuring at fortress Carrow Road???  [:D]

[/quote]

Well Smudge, when you claimed we would spend nothing at all this season, I thought you were being unduly pesermistic.

Now it appears you were wildly optimistic because far from spending zero, we have gained £800k!

If Safri goes for the reported £1-1.5 million then it will be another one in the eye for the fans. I''m all for being careful with the finances but it certainly sends the wrong signal to me if we are not even spending as much as we recieve

[/quote]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[/quote]

£800k seems a good estimate to me. Agents fees, players wages etc are just smoke and mirrors. We have saved a considerable amount in wages with the exit of Earnie, Thorne, Colin, McVeigh etc etc.

Secondly, I don''t know if Strihavka is the last of our spending but if he is then we are still weak in defence and midfield. Even more so if Safri goes.

But hey! never mind because the bank balance is stronger.

I want to see serious money spent in an attempt to get promotion before the gap becomes too wide to bridge. The Earnie money plus acouple of million would at least show intent but we are a long way off that at the moment.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Here here, I agree with every word.  However the Clucks & Smudgers of this forum believe that we shouldn''t be worrying about the finance side of things.  Apparantly the only thing we should concern ourselves with is the playing/football side of things.

Like you, I also keep one eye on the Leeds, Rotherhams, Bradford City''s of this world and am more than happy with the prudence with ambition tact.

If we go balls out we could well end up like one of those clubs, ipswich added to the list.  If we stick with our current tactic we could well become a Bolton Wanderers.  What would the posters on this forum prefer.   Maximum gamble and maybe one/two seasons of glory followed by 20 years of skint nothingness.  Or 5-10 years of sensible spending, whilst building a solid infastructure on which to build, followed by a sustained bid for A. Premier League Security & B. Competing for domestic cup honours & C. Qualifying for Europe (all ala Bolton).

[/quote]

I see your point and I am far from being in the same camp as Smudger and Cluck but your argument does have some holes in it.

Spending big money does not guarantee success, I am sure everyone is aware of that.  However, it can help if spent well. 

We should not be put off making investments in the most crucial area of our business for fear of what may happen should we not be successful.  The same financial pitfalls are relevant should we under spend and get relegated.  Spending big money has not hurt us in anyway when we have signed the likes of action Ashton and Earnie.  I don’t think anyone would suggest we should pay over the odds for run of the mill players but when exceptional opportunities arrive we should be prepared to take that opportunity on a player that can provide good value on the pitch and potentially rise transfer value over a couple of seasons.  So far this close season we seem to have tried.

Leeds is a poor example in my book because you are talking about transfer fees spent that ran close to £100m and they paid over the odds on most occasions.  The example of Leeds will not convince me that investment in good players will eventually lead to our downfall.  Ashton may have been our most expensive signing but we made profit on him.  I would wager we have wasted more money on players who were safer, cheaper options but have given little in terms of quality and effort than Ashton.  Players I may add who have left or will leave for far less than we paid for them and only after extracting big amounts of cash from us via their wages.  Surely the same gamble applies to buying cheap sometimes because you are just throwing good money away however small the amount?  Peter Thorne must be the most expensive “free” signing we have ever made. 

Spending big money is not our biggest danger.  Spending any money poorly is.

 

[/quote]

 

Totally agree[Y]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[/quote]

There will not be a potest anyhow SHTTA... because as we all know there is not enough support for one... or those that are in support of one are not prepared to back up their words with action.

As for my own views... yes another £2.3million to be spent prior to the transfer window closing (without any more departures) will signal some intent and I would be prepared to give the board this coming season to prove me wrong.

[Mr.Carrow 380]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[/quote]

There will not be a potest anyhow SHTTA... because as we all know there is not enough support for one... or those that are in support of one are not prepared to back up their words with action.

As for my own views... yes another £2.3million to be spent prior to the transfer window closing (without any more departures) will signal some intent and I would be prepared to give the board this coming season to prove me wrong.

[/quote]

I note that the rabid pack haven`t jumped on this fair and honest post Smudger........[^o)]

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[/quote]

There will not be a potest anyhow SHTTA... because as we all know there is not enough support for one... or those that are in support of one are not prepared to back up their words with action.

As for my own views... yes another £2.3million to be spent prior to the transfer window closing (without any more departures) will signal some intent and I would be prepared to give the board this coming season to prove me wrong.

[/quote]

I note that the rabid pack haven`t jumped on this fair and honest post Smudger........[^o)]

[/quote]

[&]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]

Hang on a second your basically saying we''ve spent 2.7 million on three players leaving us with £800,000 free, this fails to take into account signing on fees & agents fees which could in truth half the figure.

Secondly how do you know that this is the end of our spending? we may well spend that money and more i do not believe you can make a fair judgement until the transfer window has closed.

If we spend another £2.3 million are you calling the protest off smudger?

[/quote]

There will not be a potest anyhow SHTTA... because as we all know there is not enough support for one... or those that are in support of one are not prepared to back up their words with action.

As for my own views... yes another £2.3million to be spent prior to the transfer window closing (without any more departures) will signal some intent and I would be prepared to give the board this coming season to prove me wrong.

[/quote]

I note that the rabid pack haven`t jumped on this fair and honest post Smudger........[^o)]

[/quote]

Coz they know that I am right mate...

Cue encore!!!  [;)]