Time to accept that Wagner is doing a good job

[Canarywary 110]

Believing that Wagner should go if we don't quite make the playoffs, sort of overlooks the fact that we've had Sargent, Rowe and Gunn (+ defensive issues, and Onel out right when he was playing well, Nunez, Sainz etc) out for long periods each. It would feel incredibly unfair on Wagner. Even just to get so close to the playoffs with those injuries feels like a worthwhile achievement.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I'll "Get behind Knapper" (whatever that is in SD terms, do I go and cheer outside his house?) once he does something other than weaken our squad mid play-off push in January.

In the mean time, I'll continue to talk about whoever I want on the forum, especially when it's relevant to the conversation being had.

Thanks for your concern though.

He kept hold of our star players in January despite obvious interest in Rowe, managed to get two pieces of deadwood off the payroll 6 months early in Forshaw and Placheta, the former was benched in their relegation scrap against Rotherham the other day and the other has 0 goals and 0 assists in 10 games for Swansea. He also found a much needed loan for Tony Springett, and found a loan move for an apparently uncommitted Adam Idah which didn't obligate us to sell at an arranged price and meant that we still held all the cards (which was the Bologna offer)

Meanwhile you want to give credit for Webber for leaving us with a squad capable of achieving a top 6 finish, but none to Knapper for identifying that the club didn't need to spend unnecessarily at inflated January prices to enter the top 6 because we already had sufficient quality to get there.

And guess what Daddy Webber did last January? Let Aaron Ramsay return to Villa and replaced him with Marquinhos, so weakened our squad mid-play off push in January. 

The fact is that we were 16th in the league when Stuart Webber left us, and now we are 6th. You go on about Webber leaving us with a top 6 squad. With top 2 clearly off the table when Webber left in November, who exactly did you want the want the club to waste limited resources on?

You have regressed mentally, I'm sure of it. Pretty much everybody on here was relieved to not lose a star player in January.

[rock bus 854]

I was firmly in the Wagner out camp a few months ago but even if we do narrowly miss out on play offs it would be a really high risk strategy to sack him at the end of this season.

As already mentioned he is clearly a nice guy. That alone isnt a reason to keep him but the fact that all the players seem to like/respect him and are clearly working hard for him means it could have a really detrimental impact sacking him. If you watch the city view video there is a level of togetherness in this squad now that we havent had for ages. Wagner must have been a big part in creating that.

Would be a huge risk by Knapper to replace him.

[Fen Canary 853]

4 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He kept hold of our star players in January despite obvious interest in Rowe, managed to get two pieces of deadwood off the payroll 6 months early in Forshaw and Placheta, the former was benched in their relegation scrap against Rotherham the other day and the other has 0 goals and 0 assists in 10 games for Swansea. He also found a much needed loan for Tony Springett, and found a loan move for an apparently uncommitted Adam Idah which didn't obligate us to sell at an arranged price and meant that we still held all the cards (which was the Bologna offer)

Meanwhile you want to give credit for Webber for leaving us with a squad capable of achieving a top 6 finish, but none to Knapper for identifying that the club didn't need to spend unnecessarily at inflated January prices to enter the top 6 because we already had sufficient quality to get there.

And guess what Daddy Webber did last January? Let Aaron Ramsay return to Villa and replaced him with Marquinhos, so weakened our squad mid-play off push in January. 

The fact is that we were 16th in the league when Stuart Webber left us, and now we are 6th. You go on about Webber leaving us with a top 6 squad. With top 2 clearly off the table when Webber left in November, who exactly did you want the want the club to waste limited resources on?

You have regressed mentally, I'm sure of it. Pretty much everybody on here was relieved to not lose a star player in January.

Were there any offers of note for any of our top players? The form we were in before Christmas I can’t imagine too many clubs were offering top money for anybody. Accepting offers for a couple of fringe players and organising a couple of loans for youngsters doesn’t strike me as particularly taxing either.

This isn’t a criticism, funds are tight so his options in January were limited but praising him when he hasn’t had to do anything yet seems a bit premature. I’ll reserve judgement until I see what he does over the summer, although if Sid Van HonkyTonk is going to be the calibre of his signings it could be a long season next year 

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm pretty sure it isn't Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz. 😉

Or aktiengesellschaft...but there is often a fair bit of weltschmerz on this forum... 

[hogesar 9,711]

13 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He kept hold of our star players in January despite obvious interest in Rowe, managed to get two pieces of deadwood off the payroll 6 months early in Forshaw and Placheta, the former was benched in their relegation scrap against Rotherham the other day and the other has 0 goals and 0 assists in 10 games for Swansea. He also found a much needed loan for Tony Springett, and found a loan move for an apparently uncommitted Adam Idah which didn't obligate us to sell at an arranged price and meant that we still held all the cards (which was the Bologna offer)

Meanwhile you want to give credit for Webber for leaving us with a squad capable of achieving a top 6 finish, but none to Knapper for identifying that the club didn't need to spend unnecessarily at inflated January prices to enter the top 6 because we already had sufficient quality to get there.

And guess what Daddy Webber did last January? Let Aaron Ramsay return to Villa and replaced him with Marquinhos, so weakened our squad mid-play off push in January. 

The fact is that we were 16th in the league when Stuart Webber left us, and now we are 6th. You go on about Webber leaving us with a top 6 squad. With top 2 clearly off the table when Webber left in November, who exactly did you want the want the club to waste limited resources on?

You have regressed mentally, I'm sure of it. Pretty much everybody on here was relieved to not lose a star player in January.

Dear god. I'll try to ignore the pathetic, childish insult of someone who's already lost a debate and simply point out that my only issue is with loaning out Idah and replacing him with someone unfit and unsuitable. We have no sub-striker option. That is pretty unforgiveable for a club chasing top 6. 

Also, beyond cringeworthy to praise Knapper for not selling any of our best players when there's absolutely nothing to suggest we even received an offer.

Again, thanks for your concern but this isn't your forum, it's not up to you to say who we can and can't talk about.

Edited April 8 by hogesar

[TheGunnShow 5,976]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Or aktiengesellschaft...but there is often a fair bit of weltschmerz on this forum... 

Would have been this but the law was repealed in 2013. 😉

Rinderkennzeichnungs- und Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz - Wikipedia

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

Were there any offers of note for any of our top players? The form we were in before Christmas I can’t imagine too many clubs were offering top money for anybody. Accepting offers for a couple of fringe players and organising a couple of loans for youngsters doesn’t strike me as particularly taxing either.

This isn’t a criticism, funds are tight so his options in January were limited but praising him when he hasn’t had to do anything yet seems a bit premature. I’ll reserve judgement until I see what he does over the summer, although if Sid Van HonkyTonk is going to be the calibre of his signings it could be a long season next year 

Its better to find out that a loan player is a bit pants than a permanent signing. 

He's only been in the job 6 months and he's already got Hogesar on his back. 

He hasn't ****-****'d the women's team, insulted the snakepit, used the "ignore the noise" cliche, tried to fight a fan outside the Director's entrance, or claimed to be the saviour of black players raised in the Milton Keynes ghetto, and that's nice.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

simply point out that my only issue is with loaning out Idah and replacing him with someone unfit and unsuitable.

A relatively minor issue then, letting our 3rd choice striker leave after he asked to leave. 

Farke didn't want any players who didn't want to be here either.

As Wagner said: "I want players desperate to be here and to push for our highest target, and for this, everyone's mind has to be right".

And after ditching various bits of deadwood and a non-committed Idah we've progressed into the play-off places. Our form since improving the harmony of the dressing room by ditching the non-committed and useless:

- 3rd in the 12 game form table

- 8 wins

- 2 draws

- 2 defeats

- a Derby win

Superb effort from Wagner with the support of Knapper to ensure that we have a group that is nothing other than fully focused and committed to driving us into the top 6 and giving us a chance of playing in the Premier League. 

Edited April 8 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Would have been this but the law was repealed in 2013. 😉

Rinderkennzeichnungs- und Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz - Wikipedia

Ah well that's Mecklenburg-Vorpommern all over... 

[hogesar 9,711]

2 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

A relatively minor issue then, letting our 3rd choice striker leave after he asked to leave. 

Subjective.

During a play-off push, letting your then 2nd or 3rd top scorer out on loan, your only substitute striker, is a massive risk in itself whilst your manager that you've decided to keep on, is under pressure to deliver play-offs. No wonder Wagner made several remarks in the press about squad depth throughout January.

Admittedly the above is only a problem if you don't source a decent replacement. For some reason, Knapper went for a striker that wasn't even remotely fit mid-season, and who the coaches can't quite believe is as bad as he is.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Subjective.

During a play-off push, letting your then 2nd or 3rd top scorer out on loan, your only substitute striker, is a massive risk in itself whilst your manager that you've decided to keep on, is under pressure to deliver play-offs. No wonder Wagner made several remarks in the press about squad depth throughout January.

Admittedly the above is only a problem if you don't source a decent replacement. For some reason, Knapper went for a striker that wasn't even remotely fit mid-season, and who the coaches can't quite believe is as bad as he is.

Placheta, Forshaw, Springett and Idah out.

8 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats since.

Dressing room dynamic improved. Shed the miserable and negative, create a tighter knit group which is entirely focused on the objective of getting into the top 6. Get into the top 6. A brilliant exercise in squad management, straight out of the Farke book of "if you don't want to be here then f u c k off"

[Fen Canary 853]

3 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Its better to find out that a loan player is a bit pants than a permanent signing. 

He's only been in the job 6 months and he's already got Hogesar on his back. 

He hasn't ****-****'d the women's team, insulted the snakepit, used the "ignore the noise" cliche, tried to fight a fan outside the Director's entrance, or claimed to be the saviour of black players raised in the Milton Keynes ghetto, and that's nice.

He also hasn’t got two promotions under his belt and any signings of the calibre of Buendia or Pukki. Nobody cared about Webber being outspoken and upsetting people when things were going well, it only became an issue when we were playing poorly. If we’d been promoted last year nobody on here would have batted an eyelid at anything Webber said.

Now I’ll agree Webber should have maybe read the room a bit better and kept his head down while things weren’t going great, but that’s clearly not his nature. That sheer bloody mindedness can be both an asset and a liability, sometimes both at the same time.

Knapper is obviously much quieter and will likely hide in the background. Whether this is seen as good management or slightly cowardly will depend entirely on our league position going forward 

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Subjective.

During a play-off push, letting your then 2nd or 3rd top scorer out on loan, your only substitute striker, is a massive risk in itself whilst your manager that you've decided to keep on, is under pressure to deliver play-offs. No wonder Wagner made several remarks in the press about squad depth throughout January.

Admittedly the above is only a problem if you don't source a decent replacement. For some reason, Knapper went for a striker that wasn't even remotely fit mid-season, and who the coaches can't quite believe is as bad as he is.

It obviously pains me to admit this. But you may actually be right in this one instance... 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

2 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

He also hasn’t got two promotions under his belt and any signings of the calibre of Buendia or Pukki.

Neither did McNally or Webber when they came in, Webber bailing on Huddersfield before the job was finished.

Are people forgetting that Webber led the recruitment of his replacement?

Hogesar saying that Webber should get credit for leaving us with a squad capable of top 6, but apparently doesn't want to accept the Sporting Director that Webber left us with!

[Fen Canary 853]

2 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Neither did McNally or Webber when they came in, Webber bailing on Huddersfield before the job was finished.

Are people forgetting that Webber led the recruitment of his replacement?

Hogesar saying that Webber should get credit for leaving us with a squad capable of top 6, but apparently doesn't want to accept the Sporting Director that Webber left us with!

I don’t think he’s ever said that, he just thinks sending Idah out was a mistake. I think it was possibly done thinking we wouldn’t make the playoffs, but now we are in the top 6 and Sydney doesn’t look much of a replacement if we do suffer an injury to Sargent or Barnes then he’s going to have to accept any criticism that comes his way 

[Conrad 171]

54 minutes ago, Canarywary said:

Believing that Wagner should go if we don't quite make the playoffs, sort of overlooks the fact that we've had Sargent, Rowe and Gunn (+ defensive issues, and Onel out right when he was playing well, Nunez, Sainz etc) out for long periods each. It would feel incredibly unfair on Wagner. Even just to get so close to the playoffs with those injuries feels like a worthwhile achievement.

I think people, In the main, recognise the injury problems that we have had. Although, probably, other Club's may have had similar issues.

 

The problem that I have with Wagner is that 18 game (or whatever it was) sequence before Christmas when he seemed unprepared to change his tactics and system despite the players required to play that way being injured.

There was little doubt in my mind that when those players regained fitness (or had remained fit) we had a squad and team capable of competing at the top end of the league.

 

[Monty13 2,239]

5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

He also hasn’t got two promotions under his belt and any signings of the calibre of Buendia or Pukki. Nobody cared about Webber being outspoken and upsetting people when things were going well, it only became an issue when we were playing poorly. If we’d been promoted last year nobody on here would have batted an eyelid at anything Webber said.

Now I’ll agree Webber should have maybe read the room a bit better and kept his head down while things weren’t going great, but that’s clearly not his nature. That sheer bloody mindedness can be both an asset and a liability, sometimes both at the same time.

Knapper is obviously much quieter and will likely hide in the background. Whether this is seen as good management or slightly cowardly will depend entirely on our league position going forward 

I don’t think that’s true at all. Lots of people have had issues with what Webber said throughout his tenure. It wasn’t that people didn’t care, it was while we were doing well he got away with it.

Flip side of which though was when fortunes did turn his character immediately got called into question due to what he had been saying, no one forced him to say these things.

It was arrogance and hubris. He loved slinging mud at the previous regime and supporters and it inevitably came back to bite him.

[Conrad 171]

38 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I was firmly in the Wagner out camp a few months ago but even if we do narrowly miss out on play offs it would be a really high risk strategy to sack him at the end of this season.

As already mentioned he is clearly a nice guy. That alone isnt a reason to keep him but the fact that all the players seem to like/respect him and are clearly working hard for him means it could have a really detrimental impact sacking him. If you watch the city view video there is a level of togetherness in this squad now that we havent had for ages. Wagner must have been a big part in creating that.

Would be a huge risk by Knapper to replace him.

Depends on how many and which players leave in the summer. Any replacements will not have any affinity with Wagner.

[Fen Canary 853]

2 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I think people, In the main, recognise the injury problems that we have had. Although, probably, other Club's may have had similar issues.

 

The problem that I have with Wagner is that 18 game (or whatever it was) sequence before Christmas when he seemed unprepared to change his tactics and system despite the players required to play that way being injured.

There was little doubt in my mind that when those players regained fitness (or had remained fit) we had a squad and team capable of competing at the top end of the league.

 

Did that rigidly sticking to the system get the players used to playing that way though? It took Farke a full season and a Buendia before his methods started to yield any success after all, perhaps being insistent on playing the same style even when we were struggling has partly laid the groundwork for the improvement were now seeing? 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

15 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I don’t think he’s ever said that, he just thinks sending Idah out was a mistake. I think it was possibly done thinking we wouldn’t make the playoffs, but now we are in the top 6 and Sydney doesn’t look much of a replacement if we do suffer an injury to Sargent or Barnes then he’s going to have to accept any criticism that comes his way 

His main issue appears to be his fitness levels.

I would suggest that if there is a failure point at the club which has underestimated the extent to which he was behind on fitness, surely there isn't a suggestion that Ben Knapper does the medicals?

Knappers job as Sporting Director now would be to review the calibre of the people who made that judgement call, and make some personnel changes in that area if deemed necessary

I'm pretty sure the sports scientists wouldn't have said "You can sign him if you like but he'll be unfit and useless until May so probably best one we don't sign without putting him through an intensive Wagner pre-season", "oh ok cool, well I'll sign him anyway and we might get two good games out of him before the end of the season!"

And sorry but no downgrade in player quality will ever trump Buendia>Rashica.

Here is Hogesar's initial reaction to SvH when we signed him. Fair enough he called it, but not with any great conviction or major outrage, there is a big helping of hindsight dolloped on top.

We also don't know to watch extent Adam Idah was causing a distraction or negative atmosphere when it became clear he had loan options. As Wagner said, Idah had made it very clear that he didn't want to be here, and we have no reason to disbelieve him.

On 30/01/2024 at 20:28, hogesar said:

Not seen him play but sounds and looks on paper like a slight Idah downgrade.

Edited April 8 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[Conrad 171]

2 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Did that rigidly sticking to the system get the players used to playing that way though? It took Farke a full season and a Buendia before his methods started to yield any success after all, perhaps being insistent on playing the same style even when we were struggling has partly laid the groundwork for the improvement were now seeing? 

Cannot answer that one. What I can say though is that he has subsequently tweaked the system. We no longer play with out and out wide players, but have Sainz and Sara playing 'inverted' roles. Whether that was by design or accident is anyones guess, but we are more successful now.

[Fen Canary 853]

5 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

His main issue appears to be his fitness levels.

I would suggest that if there is a failure point at the club which has underestimated the extent to which he was behind on fitness, surely there isn't a suggestion that Ben Knapper does the medicals?

Knappers job as Sporting Director now would be to review the calibre of the people who made that judgement call, and make some personnel changes in that area if deemed necessary

I'm pretty sure the sports scientists wouldn't have said "You can sign him if you like but he'll be unfit and useless until May so probably best one we don't sign without putting him through an intensive Wagner pre-season", "oh ok cool, well I'll sign him anyway and we might get two good games out of him before the end of the season!"

And sorry but no downgrade in player quality will ever trump Buendia>Rashica.

Here is Hogesar's initial reaction to SvH when we signed him. Fair enough he called it, but not with any great conviction or major outrage, there is a big helping of hindsight dolloped on top.

As I say, I’ll judge him on what he does over the summer. I’m starting to feel that letting Idah go was a mistake but that’s with hindsight, I didn’t care too much at the time. He’s had long enough now to get his feet under the table so we’ll see what the squad is like next season

[Conrad 171]

4 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

As I say, I’ll judge him on what he does over the summer. I’m starting to feel that letting Idah go was a mistake but that’s with hindsight, I didn’t care too much at the time. He’s had long enough now to get his feet under the table so we’ll see what the squad is like next season

The problem wasn't letting Idah go, rather who he was replaced with.

[Jack Flash 13]

7 minutes ago, Conrad said:

The problem wasn't letting Idah go, rather who he was replaced with.

And of course, who was available. Watched the old firm derby and still not convinced about Idah, who is now playing against some pretty ordinary opponents apart from one.

[BroadstairsR 2,189]

1 hour ago, rock bus said:

I was firmly in the Wagner out camp a few months ago but even if we do narrowly miss out on play offs it would be a really high risk strategy to sack him at the end of this season.

As already mentioned he is clearly a nice guy. That alone isnt a reason to keep him but the fact that all the players seem to like/respect him and are clearly working hard for him means it could have a really detrimental impact sacking him. If you watch the city view video there is a level of togetherness in this squad now that we havent had for ages. Wagner must have been a big part in creating that.

Would be a huge risk by Knapper to replace him.

I tend to agree and like you have been desperate in the past to see Wagner on his bike.There have been times in the past when his managerial decisions have seemed a joke.

However, his plusses have risen rapidly as you state, but let's not overlook the 'Boro and Leicester games recently whereby he seemed to slip to his worst.

It's a difficult one, but in the back of my mind I feel that I'd prefer young Knapper to have a young coach in mind that he his familiar with (Cueto?) and make a clean sweep, whatever league we find ourselves. Especially the Chumps, though.

I am not so much bothered about a PL experience which might be a disaster because it will at least mean a much-needed financial shot in the arm, either way. Delia has previously said a few years ago now ago that we lose money in the Chumps. The alternative is selling our best even more quickly than we seem to now, eg Omo, just to maintain mid-table mediocrity and with no purchases or signings like Sara, Nunez or Saintz possible and a new stand out of the question..

Yo-yo is fine with me.

It would be a major plus, imo, to have a young forward-looking manager/coach working with as many of our existing star players as is possible, some emerging youth and the old guard as appropriate and for as long as that is the case.

Edited April 8 by BroadstairsR

[TheGunnShow 5,976]

Here are a couple of questions - wasn't it a fair degree of player power that saw the end of Dean Smith? IIRC didn't Kenny McLean have a go at Smith by saying if he spent more time on the training ground the team would be in a better position?

If those two are indeed true, then I think it shows the impact Wagner has had on getting a functional team out of them, even if the style of football is far less purely aesthetic than under Farke.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

5 minutes ago, Jack Flash said:

And of course, who was available. Watched the old firm derby and still not convinced about Idah, who is now playing against some pretty ordinary opponents apart from one.

And even that 1 I'd argue is no more stronger on paper than say West Brom or Southampton, I wouldn't swap the Leicester squad for the Rangers squad.

Idah has been used off the bench for the last 3 games. 15 minutes, 19 minutes, 21 minutes, so 55 minutes of football in 3 games.

If his desperation to move was to get more starts rather than used off the bench once Sargent was back then that doesn't seem to be working out for him at Celtic and he might have to go and do a year at Preston or Millwall or something.

Celtic fans don't seem to want to keep him unless he's cheap when you read their forum.

If Idah was being stroppy and throwing his toys out of the pram at not getting a move then I don't see what else the club could have done other than let him move, would be an unwelcome distraction at a time when the rest of the squad seems to be really pulling together and determined to have a go at getting up via the play offs.

I suspect that Idah is less desperate to get to the Premier League because he already knows he's nowhere near good enough for that level, whereas Sara, Sainz, Nunez and co will be desperate to test themselves there. Could easily see how a stroppy and unfocused Idah would be an irritation. 

[hogesar 9,711]

51 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

He also hasn’t got two promotions under his belt and any signings of the calibre of Buendia or Pukki. Nobody cared about Webber being outspoken and upsetting people when things were going well, it only became an issue when we were playing poorly. If we’d been promoted last year nobody on here would have batted an eyelid at anything Webber said.

Now I’ll agree Webber should have maybe read the room a bit better and kept his head down while things weren’t going great, but that’s clearly not his nature. That sheer bloody mindedness can be both an asset and a liability, sometimes both at the same time.

Knapper is obviously much quieter and will likely hide in the background. Whether this is seen as good management or slightly cowardly will depend entirely on our league position going forward 

I don't know what he's on about re me being "on Knappers back". I just think the first big decision Knapper has made has been a poor one. I'm hardly campaigning for him to be sacked!

On the flip side, you could argue Knapper "ignored the noise" (straight out of the Webber handbook) and didn't sack Wagner. That seems to have been a great decision but at the time people claimed it was because even though Knapper was in, Webber was still running the club in the background, or something....

34 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

 

Here is Hogesar's initial reaction to SvH when we signed him. Fair enough he called it, but not with any great conviction or major outrage, there is a big helping of hindsight dolloped on top.

 

Well of course I wasn't going to be outraged because as my post said, I hadn't seen the guy play. And the Idah loan decision only becomes the terrible one it's turned out to be if the replacement isn't up to standard.

I only "called it" on paper. I then had the joy of watching him on the pitch and it's pretty easy to draw conclusions when it's that painfully obvious.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

Just now, hogesar said:

I don't know what he's on about re me being "on Knappers back". I just think the first big decision Knapper has made has been a poor one. I'm hardly campaigning for him to be sacked!

On the flip side, you could argue Knapper "ignored the noise" (straight out of the Webber handbook) and didn't sack Wagner. That seems to have been a great decision but at the time people claimed it was because even though Knapper was in, Webber was still running the club in the background, or something....

Well of course I wasn't going to be outraged because as my post said, I hadn't seen the guy play. And the Idah loan decision only becomes the terrible one it's turned out to be if the replacement isn't up to standard.

I only "called it" on paper. I then had the joy of watching him on the pitch and it's pretty easy to draw conclusions when it's that painfully obvious.

Neither of us have any idea whether keeping hold of Idah would have been a good or bad thing, as we don't know what the impact of his unhappiness would have had on the dressing room, and whether it would or wouldn't have been fully negated by further goal contributions. He clearly didn't buy into Wagner or sufficiently believe in his team mates if he was desperate to leave.