Anyone Caught Knapping?

[essex canary 506]

9 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Definitely reluctantly. But persuasively.

We don't have to peer back through the mists of time to spin anything because history is history...

Tuesday October 271:07  Sports Desk Pete: You publically challenged how Smith & Jones were running the club back in May. Apart from their obvious love of the club, what have you seen to change your opinion?

Can u sit down please 

Tuesday October 27, 2009 1:07 Sports Desk Pete

1:13  Alan Bowkett: Can u sit down please - I must correct you, I publicly challenged how Neil Doncaster was running the Club.   As for Delia and the two Michaels, I think their outstanding contribution has been the appointment of David McNally   as Chief Executive - a consummate businessman who has a decade of football experience at the highest level.   Paul, David and I are now running the Football Club with the complete support of the substantial shareholders.   When we have had to take very difficult decisions, all our substantial shareholders have been demanding in their questioning of our proposals, as I would wish any non-executive director to be and then they have been some of the most supportive non-executive directors I have ever worked with and I can assure you I have worked with a lot.   Let's not forget, I did not seek this job and it was Delia and Michael that realised some fundamental changes had, 2009 1:13 Alan Bowkett

 

Politics. What else would he say. 7 years later could you feel the silence?

[essex canary 506]

10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, even when we finished third in The Premier League for many games it was five or six thousand short of capacity. But when Smith and Jones took over they used Andrew Cullen’s skills to get attendances so far up we were close to capacity all the time even when down in the third tier. You possibly should have thought a touch more deeply about whether the point you were making was actually helping your overall view.

Indeed. Andrew Cullen did that superbly. The 18,000 average attendance in the European season was around the simple average for the top 2 divisions. Now we are around 10% plus below it. 

The ground development is a big hurdle. What is more puzzling though is the lack of imagination in recycling vacant seats left by season ticket holders. A chat with David Wagner about Schalke04's approach or maybe German Football's attitude to lower supporter charges in general may help. £92 per match for 2 successive away matches at Plymouth and Swansea being a case in point especially in the face of poor performances and excessive administrative salaries.

[Big Vince 319]

11 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Three days ago you were stating that before D&M the club's Selling Culture was nowhere as aggressive, yet here you are plainly contradicting yourself!  

Couldn't make it up (though you try to)

 

There is no way back in the day that Norwich City sold their entire crop of young players. To remind you, in recent years we have sold Lewis, both Murphys, Maddison, Godfrey, Aarons, Omobamidele, Morris, Matos. Back in the day we got more out of our young players if you think of Haylock, Mendham, Barham, Gordon, Fox, Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy. They weren't sold as soon as they came off the production line. Today we are a poor excuse for a football club due to aggressive flogging of players.

[Big Vince 319]

11 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Actually you could have. All that was needed was working to achieve it. Which Chase did not do and your hated Smith and Jones did. A friendly suggestion is that you drop this argument, because it really cannot work for you. You are on a loser as far as this is concerned.

Munby and Cullen introduced these roadshows which went to all the small towns in Norfolk. I remember going to one in Attleborough where they were in attendance along with the boy Foulger and Bruce Rioch and the boy Bellamy and the boy Gunn. What they were trying to do was brainwash and recruit the wrong type of supporter which they succeeded in doing. Hence all the happy clappers of today who are perfectly at ease with the player manufacturing business instead of a football club. So no, you do not want an increased capacity to accommodate more of the same. I would like to wager that every single one of the extra 12,000 supporters is a happy clapper.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Vince

[NewNestCarrow 203]

37 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

There is no way back in the day that Norwich City sold their entire crop of young players. To remind you, in recent years we have sold Lewis, both Murphys, Maddison, Godfrey, Aarons, Omobamidele, Morris, Matos. Back in the day we got more out of our young players if you think of Haylock, Mendham, Barham, Gordon, Fox, Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy. They weren't sold as soon as they came off the production line. Today we are a poor excuse for a football club due to aggressive flogging of players.

Rofl.

You state "Chase never had anything remotely so systematic" [selling of players just to balance the books]  and then you cite  Fox &,Sutton (both sold by Chase) to support your view.

Couldn't make it up (though you try to)

[Big Vince 319]

15 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Rofl.

You state "Chase never had anything remotely so systematic" [selling of players just to balance the books]  and then you cite  Fox &,Sutton (both sold by Chase) to support your view.

Couldn't make it up (though you try to)

I agree Chase sold players, but not on the scale that Delia sells them. Hence, systematic. You need to remember that the academy exists purely to grow and sell players.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Vince

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

36 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

I agree Chase sold players, but not on the scale that Delia sells them. Hence, systematic. You need to remember that the academy exists purely to grow and sell players.

It doesn't, it exists in the same way all the other academies exist.

We don't live in a world where you could get a Spurs reserve for 80K anymore, that would be 2 weeks wages now.

The footballing world has moved on since Chase, it's about time Vince did as well.

[Big Vince 319]

14 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It doesn't, it exists in the same way all the other academies exist.

We don't live in a world where you could get a Spurs reserve for 80K anymore, that would be 2 weeks wages now.

The footballing world has moved on since Chase, it's about time Vince did as well.

Can you please name me one single academy player that has been retained to this day after making his full debut? I am dying for you to tell me Jonathan Rowe.

Oh! How foolish of me. Anthony Springett and Liam Gibbs.

[nutty nigel 7,630]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

Politics. What else would he say. 7 years later could you feel the silence?

Well of course. It's easy to make that claim.

It wouldn't be 'politics'. It would be a barefaced lie. Excusing lying as 'politics' is why our country's in the mess it is.

If you know different have a backbone and call it out!

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

4 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Can you please name me one single academy player that has been retained to this day after making his full debut? I am dying for you to tell me Jonathan Rowe.

Oh! How foolish of me. Anthony Springett and Liam Gibbs.

Explain how other clubs run their academies.

This year Man City sold Cole Palmer, they currently have Foden from their academy, they've sold loads more of their 'stars'.

We are no different from the other clubs.

[Big Vince 319]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Explain how other clubs run their academies.

This year Man City sold Cole Palmer, they currently have Foden from their academy, they've sold loads more of their 'stars'.

We are no different from the other clubs.

Using Man C as the prime example of a selling club is the supreme height of irony. Well done!

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Vince

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

Just now, Big Vince said:

Using Man C as the prime example of a selling club is the the supreme height of irony. Well done!

Even Man City and Chelsea are a selling club now that the Saudi's are throwing cash around.

How many players from the Man City academy have made their first team?

[Big Vince 319]

10 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Even Man City and Chelsea are a selling club now that the Saudi's are throwing cash around.

How many players from the Man City academy have made their first team?

Given that Sheikh Mansoor has spent over £3 bn up there, it is going to be mightily difficult for any academy graduate to get to the first team. Comparing us to them is ridiculous.

[nutty nigel 7,630]

6 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Given that Sheikh Mansoor has spent over £3 bn up there, it is going to be mightily difficult for any academy graduate to get to the first team. Comparing us to them is ridiculous.

As is you comparing Chase's decade to the current time. And, with each new post on this thread, you are proving you know it. You're a fake buddy.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

11 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Given that Sheikh Mansoor has spent over £3 bn up there, it is going to be mightily difficult for any academy graduate to get to the first team. Comparing us to them is ridiculous.

Our academy exists in the same way theirs does with similar results.

Before the mega money Premier league we could take reserves and players from the lower leagues, give them 1st team experience and then sell them on at a profit. It's what we did with Fleck, Gordon, Drinkell etc.

Now we do the same thing but we have do it via the academy.

Edited October 15, 2023 by A Load of Squit

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

1 hour ago, Big Vince said:

I agree Chase sold players, but not on the scale that Delia sells them. Hence, systematic. You need to remember that the academy exists purely to grow and sell players.

There was a point at which you could make a genuine entire eleven, from goalkeeper through defence and midfield to attack, of players Chase sold to clubs in the English and Scottish top flights.

[Big Vince 319]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

There was a point at which you could make a genuine entire eleven, from goalkeeper through defence and midfield to attack, of players Chase sold to clubs in the English and Scottish top flights.

You could fill an entire division with the players Delia has sold in 27 years.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

22 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

You could fill an entire division with the players Delia has sold in 27 years.

And now we're back to the made up sh!t because Vince's raison d'etre is complete b0ll0x.

 

[Big Vince 319]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

And now we're back to the made up sh!t because Vince's raison d'etre is complete b0ll0x.

 

Okay, give me the total number of players sold by Chase compared to Delia. 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

1 minute ago, Big Vince said:

Okay, give me the total number of players sold by Chase compared to Delia. 

You're the expert, you should give us a list of the 220+ players you claim we've sold during the Delia/MWJ era.

[Big Vince 319]

Just now, A Load of Squit said:

You're the expert, you should give us a list of the 220+ players you claim we've sold during the Delia/MWJ era.

Okay, this might take some time given the volumes involved.

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

21 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Okay, this might take some time given the volumes involved.

And "sold" means sold. For actual money. Not youngsters who didn't make it and were just offloaded. Enjoy!

[essex canary 506]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Well of course. It's easy to make that claim.

It wouldn't be 'politics'. It would be a barefaced lie. Excusing lying as 'politics' is why our country's in the mess it is.

If you know different have a backbone and call it out!

Surely everything Doncaster did had to be signed off by S&J so they must be implicated. Same logic applies to McNally and the Webbers. S&J have always cuddled up to the Football types rather than the Chairman. Apparently they don't like the title 'Majority Shareholders'. Why then haven't they invited any of the other shareholders on the Board to challenge the Webbers?  They only have 6,800 of us to choose from. Same logic applies to the disappearance of the supporter roadshows. How has this 'guardianship" operated in practice?

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by essex canary

[Nuff Said 5,178]

7 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Surely everything Doncaster did had to be signed off by S&J so they must be implicated. Same logic applies to McNally and the Webbers. S&J have always cuddled up to the Football types rather than the Chairman. Apparently they don't like the title 'Majority Shareholders'. Why then haven't they invited any of the other shareholders on the Board to challenge the Webbers?  They only have 6,800 of us to choose from. Same logic applies to the disappearance of the supporter roadshows. How has this 'guardianship" operated in practice?

 

Here we go.

Bad decisions=“Delia” 

Good decisions=lucky/current coach, CEO or Sporting Director/the way the wind was blowing

[Big Vince 319]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Here we go.

Bad decisions=“Delia” 

Good decisions=lucky/current coach, CEO or Sporting Director/the way the wind was blowing

Well, you've got to admit they got extremely lucky with all those 88 Pukki goals on a free transfer. Then swapping Gary Holt for Matthieu Louis Jean was horrendously bad.

[Big Vince 319]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

Surely everything Doncaster did had to be signed off by S&J so they must be implicated. Same logic applies to McNally and the Webbers. S&J have always cuddled up to the Football types rather than the Chairman. Apparently they don't like the title 'Majority Shareholders'. Why then haven't they invited any of the other shareholders on the Board to challenge the Webbers?  They only have 6,800 of us to choose from. Same logic applies to the disappearance of the supporter roadshows. How has this 'guardianship" operated in practice?

 

Hear here.

[Midlands Yellow 4,081]

3 hours ago, Big Vince said:

You could fill an entire division with the players Delia has sold in 27 years.

You could fill a few wine cellars. 

[Big Vince 319]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

As is you comparing Chase's decade to the current time. And, with each new post on this thread, you are proving you know it. You're a fake buddy.

The Socialists haven't even once finished in the top ten, let alone the 3 top fives of Chase. The Socialists have never made it beyond a cup quarter final in more than a quarter century. The reason is simple. They are not there for the football. They are there to run an aggressive player manufacturing business. End of.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Vince

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,040]

4 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Given that Sheikh Mansoor has spent over £3 bn up there, it is going to be mightily difficult for any academy graduate to get to the first team. Comparing us to them is ridiculous.

If that is the case what is the point of the Man City academy then?..........

[BigFish 1,988]

On 13/10/2023 at 17:42, PurpleCanary said:

This is officially a takeover, so the Takeover Code rules apply. With the key remit, as stressed in the latest report by the chairman of the Takeover Panel,  to protect the rights of the minority shareholders.

This must include equality of price, otherwise there would not be the stipulaton that they have to be offered the highest price paid by the incoming investor in the last 12 months.

And has equally to include equality of opportunity to force the investor to buy them up,, although that is tempered by being subject to a majority vote. Most have to want either the chance to sell, or for others to have that chance, or simply want to protect the principle.

But for that process to be at all meaningful - to fit in with the remit - it has to include the reality that by voting against the waiver it will give shareholders the right to force a sale.

Instead the panel went directly against its remit by allowing a vote in which all those for the waiver and all those against were voting against having the chance to force a sale. If every vote had been cast against the waiver because every shareholder wanted to sell up it would have done them no good at all.Truly Orwellian or even Alice Through the Looking-Glass stuff.

And I know that shareholders can try to find a buyer, but they cannot force someone to buy their shares, or have a guarnteed price, so the Panel doesn't have the right to take that possible future solution into account. It has to ensure fairness within the takeover process with which it is dealing at the time. And it didn't.

If this was true then there is an appeals process and if this was unsuccessful the decision could be challenged via Judicial Review. The TP know this. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that the organisation considers it fulfilled its remit to the letter of the law. They do this all the time, it is the day job, it is very unlikely that the opposite is the case.

Shareholders do not have the right to force a sale on a purchaser. I haven't see anywhere a suggestion that MA has paid more than £25 per share within the proceding 12 months so they do not have the right to a higher price than this on a purchaser. This process has now ended and it is difficult to see how the situation Shareholders ended issignificantly different to the one they started in, e.g. they have not been disadvantaged.

For whatever reason MA wanted to get to 40%, not more, and certainly not a majority. It is totally within his rights to propse a mechanism to do this, and it is perfectly within his rights to not to proceed if this mechanism was rejected by the minorities. it is perverse to suggest that he should be forced to buy shares he doesn't at a price he doesn't want to pay.

Edited October 15, 2023 by BigFish