Is a man a man and a woman a woman?

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

12 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's a pretty cool school to let you do genetic manipulation

Don't be even dafter. Early 1970s or late 60's  'combined science'. One of those school science experiments to do with fruit flies and very basic genetics if I recall - recessive genes perhaps. I'm sure others can remember or can even look it up.

[Fen Canary 874]

4 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

You are all falling for it! 

It's all a distraction from the really important topics of today.

Shelve these discussions for when the country isn't being run by incompetents!

If Starmer is stupid enough to tie himself in knots over the issue when a healthy majority of the public lean towards the view that sex is essentially binary and women’s single sex spaces should be protected, then it would be foolish of the Tories not to highlight it

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

16 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

To me the entire debate can be whittled down to one simple question.

Would you want your teenage daughter to have to share a changing room with Eddie Izzard? 

Oops. Eddie Izzard is a cross dresser not a trans sexual.

[Fen Canary 874]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Oops. Eddie Izzard is a cross dresser not a trans sexual.

Why is that an oops? That’s the crux of the whole argument. The term transgender seems to have supplanted transsexual and transvestite (quite possible deliberately to muddy the waters) and now encompasses everything from cross dressers to those who have had the full sex change surgery.

The entire debate is around whether people should be treated as (and thus have access to spaces reserved for) what they proclaim to be their gender, irrespective of what is between their legs hence the Isla Bryson case. Eddie Izzard got changed in the female changing room recently for a speech because he was in “girl mode” that day, therefore my question is perfectly valid 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

If Starmer is stupid enough to tie himself in knots over the issue when a healthy majority of the public lean towards the view that sex is essentially binary and women’s single sex spaces should be protected, then it would be foolish of the Tories not to highlight it

Of course the majority of us are binary. I am quite happy being a male and my wife female. And all my family and friends are as well. But some of us acknowledge the exceptions in life.

You lot on the right just don't get life. It was only because the right was so evil that the left emerged. There would have been no left or right if the selfish bustards had a conscience and shared not only finance but the rights of others and a benevolent outlook on life.

If we had a few more William Wilberforces and less Philip Greens we would be in a better place. And the strangest thing is that you think the ruling classes really give a siht about you.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

8 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Yes, I’m very aware that an extremely small proportion of people can be xxy, xyy, xxyy and perhaps a few other even rarer combinations (see one of my earlier posts).  These are the exceptions that prove the rule, and frankly have little if anything to do with those who consider themselves transgender/transsexual.

Exactly. Humans are two-footed creatures. If someone is born with a single foot, we don't say they aren't human. Those rare combinations of xxy or whatever are treated as medical conditions, not as if they are a normative condition. Sex determination is a very simple process.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

Something for RTB (from today)

He might learn something - parts of it are for Primary (not even Secondary) schools -

https://genestogenomes.org/flies-in-schools/

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

Why is that an oops? That’s the crux of the whole argument. The term transgender seems to have supplanted transsexual and transvestite (quite possible deliberately to muddy the waters) and now encompasses everything from cross dressers to those who have had the full sex change surgery.

The entire debate is around whether people should be treated as (and thus have access to spaces reserved for) what they proclaim to be their gender, irrespective of what is between their legs hence the Isla Bryson case. Eddie Izzard got changed in the female changing room recently for a speech because he was in “girl mode” that day, therefore my question is perfectly valid 

Yes, he was in a girl mode. What has that to do with binary? You are so confused. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Don't be even dafter. Early 1970s or late 60's  'combined science'. One of those school science experiments to do with fruit flies and very basic genetics if I recall - recessive genes perhaps. I'm sure others can remember or can even look it up.

In many posts you seem to be mixing up sexuality with sex. Being gay or straight has nothing to do with being male or female. we don't need to muddy the waters by discussing the gayness of fruit flies or people!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

In many posts you seem to be mixing up sexuality with sex. Being gay or straight has nothing to do with being male or female. we don't need to muddy the waters by discussing the gayness of fruit flies or people!

Doh!

[Herman 9,837]

24 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

You are all falling for it! 

It's all a distraction from the really important topics of today.

Shelve these discussions for when the country isn't being run by incompetents!

This, FFS, this.👍

[Fen Canary 874]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Yes, he was in a girl mode. What has that to do with binary? You are so confused. 

So you’d be happy for your teenage daughter (or other female family member) to share a changing room with Izzard because he claims to be in girl mode for the day? 

[Naturalcynic 676]

Just now, Herman said:

This, FFS, this.👍

So JK Rowling et al being virtually lynched for their belief that biological sex is real is merely a distraction is it?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

20 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

You are all falling for it! 

It's all a distraction from the really important topics of today.

Shelve these discussions for when the country isn't being run by incompetents!

It isn't a distraction at all. I know it is a very uncomfortable subject for the left because taken to its logical conclusions the woke narrative causes so many problematic scenarios for you, such as women's rights. But wokeness needs to be address because it causes so many societal problems. such as men in women's prisons, children on puberty blocking drugs that leave them infertile, people losing their jobs, and the whole issue of athletics.

When the left says its  distraction, or they're not interested in the subject, what they mean is they know the subject exposes the hypocrisy of the left ideology for which there is no answer.

[Herman 9,837]

7 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

So JK Rowling et al being virtually lynched for their belief that biological sex is real is merely a distraction is it?

It's grim and horrible and I hope it can get sorted out peacefully but at this moment in time I am more concerned by all the country's enormous problems largely caused by the people who would rather us talk about JK Rowling.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

11 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

So JK Rowling et al being virtually lynched for their belief that biological sex is real is merely a distraction is it?

So is her opinion more important than mine because she is a famous author?

[Naturalcynic 676]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

It's grim and horrible and I hope it can get sorted out peacefully but at this moment in time I am more concerned by all the country's enormous problems largely caused by the people who would rather us talk about JK Rowling.

Please see the post one before yours from RtB which, I’d suggest, sums up why you and others on the left would prefer to gloss over this issue.

[Fen Canary 874]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

It's grim and horrible and I hope it can get sorted out peacefully but at this moment in time I am more concerned by all the country's enormous problems largely caused by the people who would rather us talk about JK Rowling.

People are quite capable of talking about more than one subject at any given time. There’s plenty of other threads about the various problems the country faces if you want to discuss them but this one is about the transgender debate, therefore I think replies should be centred around the subject 

[Naturalcynic 676]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

So is her opinion more important than mine because she is a famous author?

Are you being subjected to horrifying levels of online abuse and attempts to cancel you because of your perfectly reasonable and entirely legitimate opinions?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It isn't a distraction at all. I know it is a very uncomfortable subject for the left because taken to its logical conclusions the woke narrative causes so many problematic scenarios for you, such as women's rights. But wokeness needs to be address because it causes so many societal problems. such as men in women's prisons, children on puberty blocking drugs that leave them infertile, people losing their jobs, and the whole issue of athletics.

When the left says its  distraction, or they're not interested in the subject, what they mean is they know the subject exposes the hypocrisy of the left ideology for which there is no answer.

So explain what all these woke problems you havejust mentioned. You are out of your depth. If I cannot back what I say, I shut up. If I am wrong I tend to apologise. You leap for the bandwagon.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Naturalcynic said:

Are you being subjected to horrifying levels of online abuse and attempts to cancel you because of your perfectly reasonable and entirely legitimate opinions?

Well she shouldn't have said anything should she.

[NFN FC 1,123]

6 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It isn't a distraction at all. I know it is a very uncomfortable subject for the left because taken to its logical conclusions the woke narrative causes so many problematic scenarios for you, such as women's rights. But wokeness needs to be address because it causes so many societal problems. such as men in women's prisons, children on puberty blocking drugs that leave them infertile, people losing their jobs, and the whole issue of athletics.

When the left says its  distraction, or they're not interested in the subject, what they mean is they know the subject exposes the hypocrisy of the left ideology for which there is no answer.

My point is that it's not a topic for politics. 

There's no need to get all twitchy. I don't think Starmer should be talking about it either. I don't fall into your strange model of polarisation Rocky. You immediately jump on my comment thinking I'm some labour lover.

It is a distraction from the problems of today 

 

[Fen Canary 874]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well she shouldn't have said anything should she.

This is one of the most disturbing replies I think I’ve read on this bored. Essentially the death threats are justified because she didn’t keep her opinions (that are held by a majority of the public) to herself 

[Naturalcynic 676]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well she shouldn't have said anything should she.

What a truly awful comment.  Nothing less than victim-blaming.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Naturalcynic

[Fen Canary 874]

2 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

My point is that it's not a topic for politics. 

There's no need to get all twitchy. I don't think Starmer should be talking about it either. I don't fall into your strange model of polarisation Rocky. You immediately jump on my comment thinking I'm some labour lover.

It is a distraction from the problems of today 

 

Of course it’s a political question, as there’s a clash and crossover of peoples wants and rights, therefore the law needs to be drafted around a consensus.

Whether women’s single sex spaces be protected by law, or should male bodied people have access to them if they claim to be mentally female is a political question as a minority are pushing for the second option

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,198]

I think questions like this are best left to the experts 🙂

 

 

[NFN FC 1,123]

26 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Of course it’s a political question, as there’s a clash and crossover of peoples wants and rights, therefore the law needs to be drafted around a consensus.

Whether women’s single sex spaces be protected by law, or should male bodied people have access to them if they claim to be mentally female is a political question as a minority are pushing for the second option

Fine. But is it a big question for the nation going into a general election? I don't think so 

[canarydan23 4,060]

17 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Fine. But is it a big question for the nation going into a general election? I don't think so 

It isn't. But it will be. The Tories will make it so. Because it's one of the few things where the majority of people agree with the fundamental thrust of their argument. We're male or we're female. I have absolutely no issue with people feeling like they are the opposite sex and dressing how they think they should to reflect that. In reality, I think those feelings only exist because as a society we still enforce rigid gender stereotypes. If everyone was allowed to wear what they wanted and play with the toys they felt like playing with as a kid, I don't think gender dysphoria would exist. There would just be more men wearing dresses and crocheting and more women in suits and playing Rugby. Neither would, nor should, feel out of place.

The goal should be for men in skirts to feel comfortable taking a slash in the gents and to not be abused for feeling comfortable embarking on a harmless way of life, nor should they feel they need to change their pronouns or mutilate themselves through surgery to be happy.

However, until that goal can be achieved, women's only spaces and sports should not be sacrificed to appease a minority who understandably don't feel entirely comfortable in society as it is today. Most people think that but Starmer is too scared to side with that opinion, hence the Tory strategy of shining a spotlight on it.

Having said that, he was quite happy to say it in the Labour leadership election, but then he was happy to lie through his teeth to achieve victory in that particular sphere. I'm not sure anything he pledged in that contest has survived his time as leader of the opposition. And no one really bats any eyelid at a level of brazen, overt duplicitiousness that might even make Boris blush.

Edited October 5, 2023 by canarydan23

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

57 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

This is one of the most disturbing replies I think I’ve read on this bored. Essentially the death threats are justified because she didn’t keep her opinions (that are held by a majority of the public) to herself 

Really? She wasn't on a chat show and asked her opinion. She wasn't writing another novel. She tweeted and entered the fray.

That she received death threats is appalling. But just because she is a famous author doesn't give her the excuse that she will actually use the term menstruate to voice her opinion. Did any of you actually read her tweet?

The disturbing thing is your willingness to give a binary decision on a subject that doesn't involve you. You are not in  the position of someone who feels trapped and confused. But no benevolencefrom you. No. You are a man and a man you will be. Now fcuk off and act like a man is your prevailing attitude.

I have no grounds to give a decision one way or the other. I am just prepeared to give these people a bit of consideration.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

What a truly awful comment.  Nothing less than victim-blaming.

Read my reply to Fen. Her crude attempt at being clever backfired.