Webber’s disdain for our fan base

[Google Bot 3,396]

30 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

When you keep failing anyone and everyone should have someone to answer to.

What failure? We're in a far better state than when he joined us

I think you're confusing the expectations that HE has created and that we've dipped below that, rather what a real failure for this club would be. 

Finishing mid table due to unfortunate injuries to key experienced players hit this season in the face.  Before that we were one of the most in-form teams, and we'll be once again aiming to be around the top 6.

If you don't like the guy then say it how it is, but this idea that he's failed us is daft.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

20 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

That's a legitimate way of looking at it. Alternatively you could say that having had the worst season in half a decade the club is clearly on decline and that, despite the two championship trophies, across the whole five years his record is worse than that of the five that preceeded his tenure.

How can you discount two trophies?

That's not an alternative way of looking at it. It's a mental way of looking at it. It's like pretending football is not about winning trophies.

[Google Bot 3,396]

26 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Alternatively you could say that having had the worst season in half a decade the club is clearly on decline and that, despite the two championship trophies, across the whole five years his record is worse than that of the five that preceeded his tenure.

Oh it's definitely on a decline, but if we were on a constant upward trajectory we'd be looking at European spots this season so you will get some rough with the smooth.  This is the first season where you could argue that he's dipped below the standards he's set at the club, and it seems that a lot of people haven't the stomach to deal with it.

And then you have people suggesting that he's in an unsackable position, and he's tenure is a failure - it's over-reaching imo.

In regards to the five years that preceeding him, he's cleared our debt, Turning a 1.5m player into a 35m+ asset, overseen large facilities improvements, increased our Academy status, and demonstrated a high percentage of home-grown talent that makes up our first team.   

Not to mention that he's sourced a new investor into this club, who seems to have the backing of most supporters, and we have numerous players who feature in Euros and World cup squads.  There's so many positives here.

The time under McNally and the days of Lambert were special, fact that we've managed to find a successor who's willing to improve on that we are quite lucky, but still people want to hate.

I appreciate that some people don't like him on a personal level, and he can be bit of an ego-driven **** - But I don't care too much about that, I feel he is giving this club his all and rightly should be given the chance to correct the wrongs of this season into next.   You have dips in sport, it'd be **** if you didn't, and it's how you respond that counts.

If you think he's been a failure at this club then I'll completely disagree, as I never thought we'd better Lambert and yet Farke coming in and the signings Webber made was just poetry at times.  Some really amazing memories, I don't think beating Man City at home with that atmosphere can easily be topped.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Google Bot

[Barbe bleu 837]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

How can you discount two trophies?

That's not an alternative way of looking at it. It's a mental way of looking at it. It's like pretending football is not about winning trophies.

I'm offering an alternative view. I'm not saying this view is better or worse than the one that went before. That's why I began with saying that the post before was a legitimate way of looking at things.

My favourite ever season was the one In league one  but arguably that was our worse season in living memory as it was the lowest we ever got, so I certainly wouldn't discount the romance of winning trophies,  but its worth pointing out that it's hard to win a championship trophy if you are stuck in the Premier league which is what we were for a while under the old regime.

Presume you wouldn't argue with the analysis that we have been on the slide for a few years now?

[Barbe bleu 837]

12 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Oh it's definitely on a decline, but if we were on a constant upward trajectory we'd be looking at European spots this season so you will get some rough with the smooth.  This is the first season where you could argue that he's dipped below the standards he's set at the club, and it seems that a lot of people haven't the stomach to deal with it.

And then you have people suggesting that he's in an unsackable position, and he's tenure is a failure - it's over-reaching imo.

In regards to the five years that preceeding him, he's cleared our debt, Turning a 1.5m player into a 35m+ asset, overseen large facilities improvements, increased our Academy status, and demonstrated a high percentage of home-grown talent that makes up our first team.   

Not to mention that he's sourced a new investor into this club, who seems to have the backing of most supporters, and we have numerous players who feature in Euros and World cup squads.  There's so many positives here.

The time under McNally and the days of Lambert were special, fact that we've managed to find a successor who's willing to improve on that we are quite lucky, but still people want to hate.

I appreciate that some people don't like him on a personal level, and he can be bit of an ego-driven **** - But I don't care too much about that, I feel he is giving this club his all and rightly should be given the chance to correct the wrongs of this season into next.   You have dips in sport, it'd be **** if you didn't, and it's how you respond that counts.

If you think he's been a failure at this club then I'll completely disagree, as I never thought we'd better Lambert and yet Farke coming in and the signings Webber made was just poetry at times.  Some really amazing memories, I don't think beating Man City at home with that atmosphere can easily be topped.

Lots of fair comment in that. To play devil's advocate though I might question how much he really put into academy and training  ground upgrades.  Did he sort this success out on his own, or did he just put his name on someone else's homework,   is it somewhere in between?

I think my view is that he probably lacks a bit of the experience needed to operate successfully at director level and that this lack of experience is causing him to put a lot of feet in a lot of mouths, but that overall he probably should have a season to see if he has the ability to recover the position we had established since 2009 ish.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm offering an alternative view. I'm not saying this view is better or worse than the one that went before. That's why I began with saying that the post before was a legitimate way of looking at things.

My favourite ever season was the one In league one  but arguably that was our worse season in living memory as it was the lowest we ever got, so I certainly wouldn't discount the romance of winning trophies,  but its worth pointing out that it's hard to win a championship trophy if you are stuck in the Premier league which is what we were for a while under the old regime.

Presume you wouldn't argue with the analysis that we have been on the slide for a few years now?

I would argue with that. Two years ago this month we won the championship with 97 points. Now I don't rate that season because I only saw one game. But it happened and calling it decline is an even more mental view.

[Google Bot 3,396]

10 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

To play devil's advocate though I might question how much he really put into academy and training  ground upgrades.  Did he sort this success out on his own, or did he just put his name on someone else's homework,   is it somewhere in between?

I really don't know, but to play Devil's advocate to the full extent we could ask that about the failings too, who else is part of the recruitment process? Why did we suffer with injuries last season? Why were we unable to interest Rashica in playing Championship football, What truly happened with Cantwell? - Who were all the people involved in this?

Surely Smith and Farke play a role in Cantwell's issue somewhere, Smith was unable to get Rashica onboard, likewise he was part of the decision to go with Rowe and see £18m of players go out on loan from last season - something that cost us dearly(imo).

It was also Smith who aggregated fans and really brought the mood of the club down this season.

There's too many questions, but it seems that the failures go on Webber and the successes elsewhere.  I don't seek to fulfil a narrative so take everything at face value.  And I genuinely think that both himself and McNally have been brilliant for this club, I have no need to even play them off against each other as just feel one is a succession of the next.

10 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think my view is that he probably lacks a bit of the experience needed to operate successfully at director level and that this lack of experience is causing him to put a lot of feet in a lot of mouths

He is young for the position he holds, I don't think there's any doubting that.  And I don't ever see him suggesting that he's not learning either, this is why I think you take the rough with the smooth, instil belief and if he fails to improve us next season, despite what people say, I think he'll be moved on - that's if he doesn't walk first, of course.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Google Bot

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,899]

18 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

What failure? We're in a far better state than when he joined us

The last two seasons have been failures - not judged by my metric, yours or any other fans - but by the club themselves. The stated aim was to stay in the Premier League. We failed to do so. The stated aim was to go up this season. We failed to do so.

20 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I think you're confusing the expectations that HE has created and that we've dipped below that, rather what a real failure for this club would be. 

I'm sorry Google Bot but that's just wrong.

Webber has been with us for 6 seasons now. One Championship 14th, 2 promotions, 2 in the Prem and one Championship 13th.

The previous 6 seasons before Webber? 4 years in the Prem, one getting promoted and one Championship 8th.

Any expectations were there before he arrived - he created nothing.

25 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Finishing mid table due to unfortunate injuries to key experienced players hit this season in the face.  Before that we were one of the most in-form teams, and we'll be once again aiming to be around the top 6.

Our form was dropping off before the 3 key injuries at the end of the season. In the four games before Kenny was injured we lost 2 and drew 2. We were not an 'in-form' team. Was the drop off even worse once all 3 were out? Absolutely. But the direction of travel was already going one way. 

Respect your opinion Google Bot but I don't think the facts back it up.

OTBC

[Google Bot 3,396]

4 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Respect your opinion Google Bot but I don't think the facts back it up.

The only facts are what happens next season for me, personally.   I don't buy that he's an unsackable failure like some are putting forwards, that's my main point in this. 

He, and his team have made ****-ups for sure, and he's got an ego issue, but I still think he deserves this season.

We are working within very tight financial boundaries, just look at the teams coming down from the prem league this season.  We're nowhere near their financial might, and even our prem league season just felt like we were a defensive midfielder short of actually turning some poor games into points.  That's how fine the margins are.

And yes, he's failed to address that position again this season - we all know that, but then most of us were hopeful for Hayden and not expecting the injury to absorb his season as it did.

If luck went our way, as Burnley had it, we may have had a pretty strong squad, but we'll never know.  I certainly think we'd be in playoffs if it weren't for the 4 losses in the second half of Wagner being here.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Google Bot

[S_81 927]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Not since he arrived it hasn't, that's nonsense, he's one of the best operators at this level - show me another self-sustaining club who has twice won the championship and had a strong belief that we'd do it for a third time.

Fact that we've finished in an average/mid-table position and we're deeming it a failure, tells you where he has taken this club since arriving.

Yeah backwards recently. Significantly. He should have been sacked after his calamity prem season two ago now. 

[S_81 927]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

No it isn’t - granted it’s pretty poor at PL level, but at this level he’s a very good operator. We don’t really have to go over all that again do we?  

It’s poor. The wasted budget and lame duck squad shows that. He’s a busted flush. 

[Mello Yello 2,315]

Nope....Our current DoF bloke in my opinion is still a smug Charlatan...

[Barbe bleu 837]

9 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I would argue with that. Two years ago this month we won the championship with 97 points. Now I don't rate that season because I only saw one game. But it happened and calling it decline is an even more mental view.

If you want to take the whole sweep of history that that's a valid view, we are where we should expect to be.But football is a short term thing and the laurels are far too prickly to be rested on. 

You cite what happened two years ago as some form of evidence that we arwle in a good place now, in Itself that speaks volumes of what has happened over the last two years and just how well we used the premier league opportunity but I'll also point out that the championship trophy was won in a series of games that began 3 years ago, played by a squad largely assembled four years ago

And we don't even talk about the much needed stadium enlargement anymore.  It's like we have all resigned ourselves to the idea that a lopsided crumbling block is 'about right' for us.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[nutty nigel 7,688]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

If you want to take the whole sweep of history that that's a valid view, we are where we should expect to be.But football is a short term thing and the laurels are far too prickly to be rested on. 

You cite what happened two years ago as some form of evidence that we arwle in a good place now, in Itself that speaks volumes of what has happened over the last two years and just how well we used the premier league opportunity but I'll also point out that the championship trophy was won in a series of games that began 3 years ago, played by a squad largely assembled four years ago

And we don't even talk about the much needed stadium enlargement anymore.  It's like we have all resigned ourselves to the idea that a lopsided crumbling block is 'about right' for us.

 

No I didn't. I cited what happened two years ago as evidence that we had not been in decline "for a few years now".

You make it up as you go along.

[Nora's Ghost 157]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

If you want to take the whole sweep of history that that's a valid view, we are where we should expect to be.But football is a short term thing and the laurels are far too prickly to be rested on. 

You cite what happened two years ago as some form of evidence that we arwle in a good place now, in Itself that speaks volumes of what has happened over the last two years and just how well we used the premier league opportunity but I'll also point out that the championship trophy was won in a series of games that began 3 years ago, played by a squad largely assembled four years ago

And we don't even talk about the much needed stadium enlargement anymore.  It's like we have all resigned ourselves to the idea that a lopsided crumbling block is 'about right' for us.

 

Too many small minds in the boardroom and the stands. NCFC has no edge and mediocrity suits all but a few.

[hogesar 9,837]

1 hour ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Too many small minds in the boardroom and the stands. NCFC has no edge and mediocrity suits all but a few.

Quite chirpy considering your lot couldn't even win the third tier.

[Google Bot 3,396]

2 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Too many small minds in the boardroom and the stands. NCFC has no edge and mediocrity suits all but a few.

Didn't even rhyme, could've gone with.

"Yo!

Too many small minds, in the boardroom and stands,

NCFC got no edge, and mediocrity in their glands."

Then could've followed it up with 

"I'm a sad **** scummer who's got no job and no life,

I put a ring on my hand, and she's the most faithful wife".

[Barbe bleu 837]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

No I didn't. I cited what happened two years ago as evidence that we had not been in decline "for a few years now".

You make it up as you go along.

I'm going to stand by my assessment. 

The squad hasn't improved in quality or value since we signed oliver skipp, the stadium and infrastructure hasn't ilbeen really developed since the academy project and is getting further and further away from what we need to support the potential of the club and what is available to the rest of the 'top 26', and some people have likely started questioning the wider community aims of the club.

I wouldnt want to sack Webber at this stage but he needs a good season.

 maybe uncle sam will make us forget all of this in no time Regardless, Good luck to webber, if he succeeds ill be happy.

You disagree  that's fine - we don't need to all share the same opinion.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm going to stand by my assessment. 

The squad hasn't improved in quality or value since we signed oliver skipp, the stadium and infrastructure hasn't ilbeen really developed since the academy project and is getting further and further away from what we need to support the potential of the club and what is available to the rest of the 'top 26', and some people have likely started questioning the wider community aims of the club.

I wouldnt want to sack Webber at this stage but he needs a good season.

 maybe uncle sam will make us forget all of this in no time Regardless, Good luck to webber, if he succeeds ill be happy.

You disagree  that's fine - we don't need to all share the same opinion.

You bet I disagree. You're now saying that this decline started before we kicked a ball in 20/21 and had set in as we won the championship with 97 points. So that's fine we don't need to share the same opinion and I take comfort that you've finally replied to a post made.

Here's a thought...

Maybe in the same way we were in decline in 20/21 the rubbish season we've just had was actually the first in a wonderful revival....

[kenfoggo 250]

The Director of Football can be smug, arrogant, contemptuous of the Supporters IF he is bringing success to the Club. The last two seasons under his watch have been a crock. The pressure is on, patience is paper thin, three strikes and you are out!

[Barbe bleu 837]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

You bet I disagree. You're now saying that this decline started before we kicked a ball in 20/21 and had set in as we won the championship with 97 points. So that's fine we don't need to share the same opinion and I take comfort that you've finally replied to a post made.

Here's a thought...

Maybe in the same way we were in decline in 20/21 the rubbish season we've just had was actually the first in a wonderful revival....

Let's be clear, I'm talking in the context of a discussion of Webber and what we think we know of his role. Of course the coaching staff and the guys on the pitch did the business throughout the year, but Webber wasn't kicking a ball with them during the season, what he should have been doing is working out how we replace skipp and buendia. I dont think he did that terribly well.

Performances on the pitch that exceeded expectations belied the fact that the decline had begun.

You can take issue with ambiguous phrasing if you like but given this is a regional football forum and not a cancer drug trial or major military campaign  content with that.

 

Should have got a new stand years ago mind.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

36 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Let's be clear, I'm talking in the context of a discussion of Webber and what we think we know of his role. Of course the coaching staff and the guys on the pitch did the business throughout the year, but Webber wasn't kicking a ball with them during the season, what he should have been doing is working out how we replace skipp and buendia. I dont think he did that terribly well.

Performances on the pitch that exceeded expectations belied the fact that the decline had begun.

You can take issue with ambiguous phrasing if you like but given this is a regional football forum and not a cancer drug trial or major military campaign  content with that.

 

Should have got a new stand years ago mind.

And as I said, it's quite possible that by the same ridiculous analogy this last season could have been good behind the scenes but not noticed by performances on the pitch. You've shown that any imaginations can be used to make a point that the realities don't make.

[Barbe bleu 837]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

And as I said, it's quite possible that by the same ridiculous analogy this last season could have been good behind the scenes but not noticed by performances on the pitch. You've shown that any imaginations can be used to make a point that the realities don't make.

Yes, we might find that Webber has pulled off the deal of the century with Uncle Sam and that we are entering a golden age of football, but we don't yet know it. If we find this to be the case then I will happily come back here and sing Webber's praises and pay homage to the great sage nutty nigel.

However, his golden age, for the time being at least, lies only in the imagination.  The past though lives in our experiences and memories. I utterly stand by my assessment: the high point of webbers tenure was when he signed skipp at a time when the academy and hope was high.   I'm really not sure what he has done of note since (well I can, but we've talked enough about his 'assertive' manner).

Remind me of that gem he uncovered in the last three years,  or the planning permission for a new superstand, or the high tech training solution that he bought to make our players harder l  better, faster, stronger because I cant really recall it.  All I am seeing is a guy who spent a year admiring the (admittedly nice)  house he built to replace the one that burned down, but forgot to check it actually had foundations.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

36 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes, we might find that Webber has pulled off the deal of the century with Uncle Sam and that we are entering a golden age of football, but we don't yet know it. If we find this to be the case then I will happily come back here and sing Webber's praises and pay homage to the great sage nutty nigel.

However, his golden age, for the time being at least, lies only in the imagination.  The past though lives in our experiences and memories. I utterly stand by my assessment: the high point of webbers tenure was when he signed skipp at a time when the academy and hope was high.   I'm really not sure what he has done of note since (well I can, but we've talked enough about his 'assertive' manner).

Remind me of that gem he uncovered in the last three years,  or the planning permission for a new superstand, or the high tech training solution that he bought to make our players harder l  better, faster, stronger because I cant really recall it.  All I am seeing is a guy who spent a year admiring the (admittedly nice)  house he built to replace the one that burned down, but forgot to check it actually had foundations.

Whatever are you going on about now. Did I say any of that or are you arguing with yourself?

All I have ever said is that you can't discount two championship trophies to make a point and that winning the championship with 97 points can't possibly be a season of decline. 

You doubling and trebling down on such a stupid comment can't possibly make anyone a great sage. So you can firmly shove that condescending claptrap where the sun don't shine.

 

 

[Barbe bleu 837]

40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Whatever are you going on about now. Did I say any of that or are you arguing with yourself?

All I have ever said is that you can't discount two championship trophies to make a point and that winning the championship with 97 points can't possibly be a season of decline. 

You doubling and trebling down on such a stupid comment can't possibly make anyone a great sage. So you can firmly shove that condescending claptrap where the sun don't shine.

 

 

Like I said - you have your opinion, I have mine. I think there is a decline and that it started 3 years ago, even if the disease was not then symptomatic.

I'm not entirely sure what you think but you don't have to explain yourself to me or anyone else. So I'm happy to leave the field before it all descends further into insults.

[nutty nigel 7,688]

I think this last season has been dire. Especially for those like me who only go to home games. I don't think you can take past sporting achievement away in order to somehow make it appear worse. Otherwise we could say if we hadn't won any games since Webber arrived we'd now be so far down the pyramid we'd need a periscope to see National League South.

I'm happy to leave with you and share that higher ground.

[Monty13 2,307]

On 24/05/2023 at 22:45, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

The last two seasons have been failures - not judged by my metric, yours or any other fans - but by the club themselves. The stated aim was to stay in the Premier League. We failed to do so. The stated aim was to go up this season. We failed to do so.

I'm sorry Google Bot but that's just wrong.

Webber has been with us for 6 seasons now. One Championship 14th, 2 promotions, 2 in the Prem and one Championship 13th.

The previous 6 seasons before Webber? 4 years in the Prem, one getting promoted and one Championship 8th.

Any expectations were there before he arrived - he created nothing.

Our form was dropping off before the 3 key injuries at the end of the season. In the four games before Kenny was injured we lost 2 and drew 2. We were not an 'in-form' team. Was the drop off even worse once all 3 were out? Absolutely. But the direction of travel was already going one way. 

Respect your opinion Google Bot but I don't think the facts back it up.

OTBC

I actually really enjoyed Webber’s interviews despite the unnecessary antagonistic comments, there was a lot of interesting points there when you look past that noise.

However he’s also said some really dubious stuff that isn’t getting talked about much.

Creating the expectation being the most obviously egregious example to me. It’s so obviously wrong I don’t know how he could say it without being challenged on it by interviewers. He’s only here because of the major fallout when we had a season where we missed out on the playoffs, and that was better than his last one.

[S_81 927]

7 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I actually really enjoyed Webber’s interviews despite the unnecessary antagonistic comments, there was a lot of interesting points there when you look past that noise.

However he’s also said some really dubious stuff that isn’t getting talked about much.

Creating the expectation being the most obviously egregious example to me. It’s so obviously wrong I don’t know how he could say it without being challenged on it by interviewers. He’s only here because of the major fallout when we had a season where we missed out on the playoffs, and that was better than his last one.

For a guy who is so full of arrogance, ego and confidence - he needs to always find a get out of jail card - in this instance in the form of unreasonable expectation (as he sees it). He’s a snake oil salesman. 

[Nora's Ghost 157]

21 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Didn't even rhyme, could've gone with.

"Yo!

Too many small minds, in the boardroom and stands,

NCFC got no edge, and mediocrity in their glands."

Then could've followed it up with 

"I'm a sad **** scummer who's got no job and no life,

I put a ring on my hand, and she's the most faithful wife".

Oh dear.... back to the playground again.

 

 

[Google Bot 3,396]

2 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Oh dear.... back to the playground again.

On the playground is where I spent most of my days.