Stuart Webber, Howie Roseman and turning things around...

[king canary 7,680]

This might be a bit long and niche for some but here goes.

Most of you likely have never heard of Howie Roseman. He is the GM (General Manager) of the Philadelphia Eagles, my favoured NFL team. Howie has had an extremely interesting career in his time in this role. When he joined he was the upstart young guy with fresh ideas. There was a weird period where he seemed to lose a power struggle with the Head Coach Chip Kelly and was seemingly demoted. He built the roster that won the Eagles first ever Superbowl and at that point could do wrong. Then it came apart and suddenly he was managing one of the most expensive rosters in the League while delivering sub par results having fired a popular Head Coach when people thought it was him that should be carrying the can. High value draft picks had been spent on failing players. Expensive contracts were given out to players who didn't live up to the hype. Fans wanted him out. Howie the roster building wizard was suddenly on the hot seat. Sound familiar so far?

Where it gets interesting is the next couple of years- Howie turned it all around. The Eagles went to the Superbowl this year and almost won the whole thing. They are back to being considered one of the best run and most successful franchises in the sport. Howie Roseman won 'Executive of the Year' at the last NFL honours and the current NFL.com GM rankings see him sitting pretty at number one. So how did it happen and are there lessons Webber can learn?

• Admit your mistakes- First and foremost Roseman took accountability publicly and admitted his errors. Not just general 'I've got things wrong' but talked about specific things he'd missed on and what he wanted to do differently.
• Don't get sentimental- One thing Roseman owned up to was that he had a habit of holding on to players longer than he should due to past achievements, rather than being a hard nosed businessman and moving them on when it was time. So out went future Hall of Fame left tackle Jason Peters, the Eagles best ever Tight End Zack Ertz was traded to Arizona and pro bowl safety Malcolm Jenkins was cut when he started demanding a new deal as Roseman knew we either had better, younger options waiting in the wings or we could find one. From a Norwich perspective I'd suggest this a good lesson about not just assuming those who've done it before can do it again and getting attached to players who may be past their best. No new contracts for Byram or similar just because they seem like good guys.
• Ignore the sunk cost fallacy- this is a thinking error where we stick with a losing or failing plan because of how much we've already invested in it. In this case Roseman took the pain of moving on from expensive franchise Quarterback Carson Wentz despite the money tied up in him. Similarly he replaced former round bust Jalen Reagor and second round disaster JJ Arcega Whiteside rather than sticking with them when it wasn't working despite the high draft picks spent on these players. For us this speaks to players like Tzolis, McCallum and Giannoulis. Don't insist the coach has to keep them and play them because we spent  lot on them. If they aren't good enough cut your losses and move on. It might seem harsh, especially on those younger players but it is better to move rather than waste time.
• Focus on culture- The Eagles culture had drifted, in part due to the leadership of the above mentioned Carson Wentz in a key position of leadership. In any NFL team the QB is the most important player and the leader of the whole locker room. Wentz was seen as aloof, a poor communicator and not open to critique. Similarly veteran receiver Alshon Jeffrey was suspecting of leaking negative stories and every week it felt like there was a player tweeting some cryptic BS about what was happening behind the scenes. We'd drifted from a winning culture to a negative, everyone out for themselves type culture. When it came to replacing Wentz the Eagles looked to Jalen Hurts, a player who maybe didn't have the same key physical traits as Wentz but was known as a high culture guy, a leader and someone who earned the respect of his teammates. Similarly guys with a true winning mentality like AJ Brown and Devonta Smith were bought in. Now we're a locker room everyone wants to be part of. I know I've banged this drum a lot but we really need to look for leaders and the kind of players who drag others along with them. That doesn't always mean the loudest voices but sometimes it is the player with the ability combined with the desire to win that can drag others along with them. Buendia had that. Holt had it. We need to look for players who just hate losing rather than those who seem happy to shrug their shoulders and say 'we tried our best.' Similarly we need to install that in the academy and throughout the club.

Now obviously I'm aware you can't extrapolate directly from the NFL to football, the sports are very different. And while Howie had become unpopular he hadn't become quite the pariah Webber has. But I do think there are lessons that can be learned here about how to stop the bleeding and reboot. 

 

[Indy 3,322]

know this well, anyone with a love of NFL will know.

The key was getting high earning players not performing off the roster, exactly what you say sentimentality for failing players on high wages leads to carrying players.

Decent analogy KC but big differences in NFL with drafts and trades and footballers costing a fortune.

[sgncfc 1,259]

Unfortunately by giving Idah 5 years and Hernandez another two, it hasn't started well has it? Two players clearly not good enough to take the club forward yet continuing to pick up a serious wedge for no obvious reason. Maybe we got them to sign up so we could sell them to someone not quite as clever?

[Chichcan 148]

Thanks for taking the trouble to write this kc

Very interesting.  I hope Webber reads it!

I think there definitely sound as if there are similarities 

I particularly agree about the sunk cost thing. I think he needs to hold his hands up about the expensive failures and just get rid of Tzolis, Rashica etc even at a massive loss

I also agree about the culture of hating to lose seemingly to have gone.

How did Roseman communicate to the fans? Was it via the press or interviews with the club or in written articles?

 

[Chichcan 148]

1 minute ago, sgncfc said:

Unfortunately by giving Idah 5 years and Hernandez another two, it hasn't started well has it? Two players clearly not good enough to take the club forward yet continuing to pick up a serious wedge for no obvious reason. Maybe we got them to sign up so we could sell them to someone not quite as clever?

I actually quite like the Hernandez deal.

It was probably relatively cheap and he is the only one in the squad who undoubtedly cares and can help spread the culture we want to see 

[king canary 7,680]

17 minutes ago, Chichcan said:

Thanks for taking the trouble to write this kc

Very interesting.  I hope Webber reads it!

I think there definitely sound as if there are similarities 

I particularly agree about the sunk cost thing. I think he needs to hold his hands up about the expensive failures and just get rid of Tzolis, Rashica etc even at a massive loss

I also agree about the culture of hating to lose seemingly to have gone.

How did Roseman communicate to the fans? Was it via the press or interviews with the club or in written articles?

 

Thanks, glad it was interesting. 

Re communication, the NFL has a pretty regular media schedule so there were various press conferences and interviews in the schedule. 

[hogesar 9,760]

No idea on NFL but thanks. I think me and you have already discussed that whatever Webber says next doesn't get fans onside - you included. 

So to confirm, your first point, is it more about Webber admitting the mistakes himself? Which then leads in to your point 3 about sunken costs. For example, letting go of Tzolis would be admitting a £9 million error - huge in Norwich terms.

[king canary 7,680]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

No idea on NFL but thanks. I think me and you have already discussed that whatever Webber says next doesn't get fans onside - you included. 

So to confirm, your first point, is it more about Webber admitting the mistakes himself? Which then leads in to your point 3 about sunken costs. For example, letting go of Tzolis would be admitting a £9 million error - huge in Norwich terms.

Yes it's both actions and words really. As you say though I don't find him sincere is what says and I'm sure there were plenty in Philly who felt the same about Howie. However him winning me over is largely immaterial. The idea is that being able to really analyse and admit your own mistakes should lead to better results and a more content fanbase. 

[Miss Demeanor 67]

I really can't see Webber's ego allowing him to admit his mistakes in the same fashion as Howie!

[Monty13 2,252]

I don’t think the fact it’s NFL matters, it’s more the lessons about leadership approach and team building that matter. In that the parallels are obvious and solution’s probably just as relevant.

[repman 635]

This is an excellent post. I feel like the comparison is a good one, I've posted on another thread today how I feel like maybe we got too comfortable after our success in Webber's early years and, as a result stopped pushing the envelope like we had been.

I don't know too much about NFL but I remember watching the superbowl this year that it was mentioned a lot on commentary how often the Eagles would go for it on 4th downs. As far as I know the idea of going for it on 4th downs has become a more commonplace one mainly due to the increase of data, a bit like how in basketball the mid-range shot has fallen in favour of 3 pointers. Even in football we see less shots from outside the box with each passing year. Just from looking on google it appears that the Eagles are considered one of the more analytically driven NFL sides, we were certainly one of the more data focused sides back in 2018/19. Our decision making since then has moved away from that model, the influence of the head coach on transfer/contract decisions being a good example of that.

I guess now all we need is Webber to do all you said and also perhaps go find a young coach to help revitalise performances on the pitch.

[hogesar 9,760]

54 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes it's both actions and words really. As you say though I don't find him sincere is what says and I'm sure there were plenty in Philly who felt the same about Howie. However him winning me over is largely immaterial. The idea is that being able to really analyse and admit your own mistakes should lead to better results and a more content fanbase. 

Got you.

I think Webber should keep quiet. I dont think he will, but I think he should.

My view is he can't win with words, you've sort of agreed. Go and get this window sorted. If it's a great window and we're top 2 after 10 games, then maybe speaking and owning previous mistakes might hold a bit of credit.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

KC is an Eagles fan and knows them well. The NFL has certain differences to us such as the draft. Certainly last gets first picks is way different. But of course choosing who to pick in the draft is equally relevant. 

Weak positions are identified and a team that is weak on defence but good on offence will know where to make choices. Whether it be by the draft or free agents.

Clearly Webber thought he had identified our weaknesses but failed in the choice of players to strengthen them. In fact the players brought in have done no better than those they replaced and in some cases are worse.

That isn't the player's fault. But they get the brunt of it for 90 minutes a time. And then the coach gets rid of them. But the same guy who, once successful, is continuing to make bad judgements stays.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Two players clearly not good enough to take the club forward yet continuing to pick up a serious wedge for no obvious reason

If Onel has to 'save up' to take his family on holiday to Portugal then I'd suggest that his wages might be much more modest than you think. 

Still, I remain incredibly confused by the decision to give Idah 5  years.

[hogesar 9,760]

30 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

If Onel has to 'save up' to take his family on holiday to Portugal then I'd suggest that his wages might be much more modest than you think. 

Still, I remain incredibly confused by the decision to give Idah 5  years.

Although we have no idea what wage Idah is on. Could also be very modest comparatively. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,511]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

This might be a bit long and niche for some but here goes.

I thought it was great. Thanks for posting

[Ian 1,136]

2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Unfortunately by giving Idah 5 years and Hernandez another two, it hasn't started well has it? Two players clearly not good enough to take the club forward yet continuing to pick up a serious wedge for no obvious reason. Maybe we got them to sign up so we could sell them to someone not quite as clever?

I didn't actually realise how young Idah still is - he does have time to grow, and I am guessing the deal wasn't exactly huge money so I think it probably makes sense.

We also need a bit of experience at this level, and Hernandez is one who can be a good impact player for us.

The key thing is whether we get better players in and the two above add squad depth, or whether they are the limit of our current ambitions.