FBI says Covid "most likely" came from China lab

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

FBI chief Christopher Wray says China lab leak 'most likely' - BBC News

 

I'd have thought the FBI would not make this sort of comment lightly.

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

I thought this was generally accepted in the scientific community around the world. 

[A Load of Squit 5,200]

Until anyone knows for sure we can put it in the 'I'm not ruling it out but I'm not ruling it in either' category.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/28/lab-leak-natural-spillover-how-origins-covid-us-political-debate

Opponents say there is still no hard evidence for a lab leak, as many scientists still believe the virus most probably came from animals, mutated and jumped into people. They note that the loudest champions of the lab leak hypothesis are often also trafficking in rightwing conspiracy theories, for example about the top infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci.

But the two do not necessarily go hand in hand. Some scientists and other observers argue that the lab leak theory cannot be ruled out and should be kept separate from the racist propaganda that often accompanies it. It demands careful investigation, not peremptory dismissal or acceptance, they contend.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,766]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I thought this was generally accepted in the scientific community around the world. 

Yet two/three years ago you would be told you are a far right extrimist and should have your free speech limited for even so much as suggesting that it could have been made in a lab.. Strange huh?

Kind of like how masks don't protect you from Covid whatsoever and yet now they seem happy to admit that and yet back in the day you would be told to shut up and that you were wrong.

Or how the jabs don't really fully protect you and you can still get it even if you've been jabbed a thousand times.

Oh how the history is now being rewritten.

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

37 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Yet two/three years ago you would be told you are a far right extrimist and should have your free speech limited for even so much as suggesting that it could have been made in a lab.. Strange huh?

Kind of like how masks don't protect you from Covid whatsoever and yet now they seem happy to admit that and yet back in the day you would be told to shut up and that you were wrong.

Or how the jabs don't really fully protect you and you can still get it even if you've been jabbed a thousand times.

Oh how the history is now being rewritten.

it’s true in the early days the China lab theory was rubbished by people who should probably have known better, but that’s years ago now.

and masks are still understood to have a role in reducing the spread which can be valuable with other measures where necessary, thankfully we’re past that point now.

 

Jabs don’t “fully protect you” but they clearly make the difference for it to be just another flu type illness rather than widely life-threatening,, and that’s been very clear public knowledge for ages now, so that’s a pretty stupid comment IMO.

 

 

[A Load of Squit 5,200]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Yet two/three years ago you would be told you are a far right extrimist and should have your free speech limited for even so much as suggesting that it could have been made in a lab.. Strange huh?

Kind of like how masks don't protect you from Covid whatsoever and yet now they seem happy to admit that and yet back in the day you would be told to shut up and that you were wrong.

Or how the jabs don't really fully protect you and you can still get it even if you've been jabbed a thousand times.

Oh how the history is now being rewritten.

Yes, history is being rewritten by you.

 

[MooreMarriot 311]

Much of the scientific community takes a different view to the FBI:

" Despite much noise to the contrary, there is no credible evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was ever known to virologists before it emerged in December 2019, and all indications suggest that, like SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, this virus probably evolved in a bat host until an unknown spillover event into humans occurred."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,766]

2 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

Much of the scientific community takes a different view to the FBI:

" Despite much noise to the contrary, there is no credible evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was ever known to virologists before it emerged in December 2019, and all indications suggest that, like SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, this virus probably evolved in a bat host until an unknown spillover event into humans occurred."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

 

"stakeholders say buying our stuff and making us rich is good please continue to obey our narritive we wrote"

[MooreMarriot 311]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

"stakeholders say buying our stuff and making us rich is good please continue to obey our narritive we wrote"

The speed of your reply ( about 30 secs after I posted ) shows you did not bother to read the article.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,766]

3 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

The speed of your reply ( about 30 secs after I posted ) shows you did not bother to read the article.

"Stakeholders say" is all I need to know

[MooreMarriot 311]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

"Stakeholders say" is all I need to know

 

A stakeholder in public health is clearly someone who has an intellectual interest in promoting good practice and  not a financial one, as I would have thought was bleeding obvious if you had bothered to read the whole article .

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

3 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

it’s true in the early days the China lab theory was rubbished by people who should probably have known better, but that’s years ago now.

and masks are still understood to have a role in reducing the spread which can be valuable with other measures where necessary, thankfully we’re past that point now.

 

Jabs don’t “fully protect you” but they clearly make the difference for it to be just another flu type illness rather than widely life-threatening,, and that’s been very clear public knowledge for ages now, so that’s a pretty stupid comment IMO.

 

 

The problem was that Trump made the claim it was a lab leak, so opponents automatically argued the opposite without considering it properly.

My own theory on original claims that there was no evidence masks were any use was motivated by protecting supplies for medical personnel while there wasn't enough to go around.

Edited March 1, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

57 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

Much of the scientific community takes a different view to the FBI:

" Despite much noise to the contrary, there is no credible evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was ever known to virologists before it emerged in December 2019, and all indications suggest that, like SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, this virus probably evolved in a bat host until an unknown spillover event into humans occurred."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

 

Not necessarily; the unknown spillover event could easily have been human intervention in a lab

[MooreMarriot 311]

41 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not necessarily; the unknown spillover event could easily have been human intervention in a lab

The full download  https://www.nature.com/articles/S41591-020-0820-9  makes it clear that the genetics of the virus make human intervention very unlikely.

Edited March 1, 2023 by MooreMarriot

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

18 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

The full download  https://www.nature.com/articles/S41591-020-0820-9  makes it clear that the genetics of the virus make human intervention very unlikely.

Unlikely doesn't amount to impossible. What struck me as a hell of a coincidence was the presence of a research facility where the virus originated. On top of this, the decision of the Chinese authorities to arrest the doctor who first raised the alarm stunk of a cover up for a man-made mess.

It's good to keep an open mind, but the FBI's assertions don't surprise me.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Reports from Cambodia that the latest Avian Flu has mutated through human hosts and has killed at least one person.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,766]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Reports from Cambodia that the latest Avian Flu has mutated through human hosts and has killed at least one person.

Does this mean we have to all stay at home and make all the vaccine producers rich?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

24 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Does this mean we have to all stay at home and make all the vaccine producers rich?

I asked Matt Hancock and gotabit testy.

[Indy 3,309]

Funny how yet again with no real evidence the Americans poke China! Can’t stop themselves can they, have to try and poke China more. The country that gave us Spanish flu!

[Barbe bleu 831]

28 minutes ago, Indy said:

Funny how yet again with no real evidence the Americans poke China! Can’t stop themselves can they, have to try and poke China more. The country that gave us Spanish flu!

I think the FBI and CIA prefer to publish all their classified and highly sensitive intelligence on the Denver Broncos forum so I'm not sure we'll see it here to be honest

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

57 minutes ago, Indy said:

Funny how yet again with no real evidence the Americans poke China! Can’t stop themselves can they, have to try and poke China more. The country that gave us Spanish flu!

When medical experts gave the warning in China, China arrested them. As it spread, China lied to the WHO  and convinced them to encourage everyone to keep borders open. Lab or not, the way China dealt with it was criminal.

Edited March 1, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[benchwarmer 625]

On 01/03/2023 at 19:44, keelansgrandad said:

Reports from Cambodia that the latest Avian Flu has mutated through human hosts and has killed at least one person.

Not quite.  The person who died caught it from birds.  There's no evidence to suggest that in its current form it can be transmitted between humans, but if it mutated in a certain way it could be a different story and that's what scientists are keeping an eye on.

Edited March 2, 2023 by benchwarmer

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

13 hours ago, MooreMarriot said:

Much of the scientific community takes a different view to the FBI:

" Despite much noise to the contrary, there is no credible evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was ever known to virologists before it emerged in December 2019, and all indications suggest that, like SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, this virus probably evolved in a bat host until an unknown spillover event into humans occurred."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01205-5

 

This is a clearly partisan piece dating from 2021 in response to conspiracy theories, so the fact that in early 2023 the FBI has for the first time made the comment that it was probably a lab leak implies to me it is based on more up to date evidence.

 

I can’t ever remember the FBI claiming something without a solid basis to do so.

[king canary 7,651]

16 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Or how the jabs don't really fully protect you and you can still get it even if you've been jabbed a thousand times.

Christ.

Nobody with any knowledge ever claimed the jabs stopped you ever getting covid- just they reduced the chances of getting it and the chances of it being severe, which statistics show worked.

It isn't their fault you can't read.

[ron obvious 1,514]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Christ.

Nobody with any knowledge ever claimed the jabs stopped you ever getting covid- just they reduced the chances of getting it and the chances of it being severe, which statistics show worked.

It isn't their fault you can't read.

Unfortunately those in power have managed to destroy any remaining faith in their utterances. Even worse they have destroyed our belief in science, which is predicated on a belief that its practitioners are disinterested & objective. 

[benchwarmer 625]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

Nobody with any knowledge ever claimed the jabs stopped you ever getting covid- just they reduced the chances of getting it and the chances of it being severe, which statistics show worked.

 

Statistics often mislead.  No one actually knows how effective covid vaccines really are.  Why?  Because it's impossible to quantify the reduction in serious cases due to mutation of the virus into milder forms such as Omicron, or the effect of natural immunity in those who were vaccinated after they'd had the bug.

I'm not claiming that vaccines had no part to play (although the withdrawal of AstraZeneca, Boris's "Great British Vaccine" in September 2021 is yet to be openly acknowledged or explained).  I'm just sceptical about statistics and the way they are used, in this as in many other situations.

Edited March 2, 2023 by benchwarmer

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

13 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Unfortunately those in power have managed to destroy any remaining faith in their utterances. Even worse they have destroyed our belief in science, which is predicated on a belief that its practitioners are disinterested & objective. 

Everything is corruptible to some extent, but you have to remember that the people who develop the vaccines and drugs have a genuine intent of producing treatments that help people. Equally, the variety of medical safety bodies globally have no interest in undermining their own credibility by knowingly approving drugs that are more harmful than their benefits.

My advice to anyone who has lost confidence in science due to politicians is to learn some science properly, not from YouTube.

[ron obvious 1,514]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Everything is corruptible to some extent, but you have to remember that the people who develop the vaccines and drugs have a genuine intent of producing treatments that help people. Equally, the variety of medical safety bodies globally have no interest in undermining their own credibility by knowingly approving drugs that are more harmful than their benefits.

My advice to anyone who has lost confidence in science due to politicians is to learn some science properly, not from YouTube.

I would disagree to some extent, in that there are some excellent youtube science channels, e.g. Sabine Hossenfelder's.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,766]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Christ.

Nobody with any knowledge ever claimed the jabs stopped you ever getting covid- just they reduced the chances of getting it and the chances of it being severe, which statistics show worked.

It isn't their fault you can't read.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I would disagree to some extent, in that there are some excellent youtube science channels, e.g. Sabine Hossenfelder's.

There's plenty of good scientific content on YouTube, but it's unfiltered and mixed up with huge quantities of pseudo-science specifically aimed at undermining confidence in science; with an accredited science course you know that everything you're subjected to has been peer-reviewed along the way, and you'll be better-equipped to make judgements as to the trustworthiness of statements that haven't been through peer review.

Amendment: Physics you can be a lot more confident about, although even there, there are a few humorous attempts to prove the earth is flat!

Edited March 2, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie