Is immediate promotion a priority for supporters this season

[CDMullins 436]

40 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

We’d spend all the money trying to compete…. Come back down, embarrassed, fans disillusioned and frustrated, the football world fuming that yet again we couldn’t (they will taunt, wouldn’t) compete…with no money, disillusioned players and having not developed anything long-term!   We are currently in a vicious spiral and we need to get out of it, reset and go again!   
 

How exactly would we be more attractive to the Americans?

You may be bored of the Buendia and Skipp debate, but it is fact, they absolutely got us promoted.     Without Buendia, Pukki would have been less productive and opponents would not have feared us in their attitudes and team set up!   Yes, Buendia did win us promotion, everything good went through him.   Skipp protected / shielded the defence.    The rest were competent because Farke had them playing a particular system that they had become used to and was difficult for opponents to deal with… we tired teams out!    Skipp was the spine, otherwise we haven’t had a spine for 5 plus years since we can’t seem to scout CDMs!

Top 2!   The gulf between top 2 and 20th in EPL is vast!   We aren’t ready.

 

 

 

 

 

We pissed the league with Tettey/Trybull doing the same job Skipp did.

Emi's a talent for sure but to suggest the two squads wouldn't have gone up, is ludicrous 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

14 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

We pissed the league with Tettey/Trybull doing the same job Skipp did.

Emi's a talent for sure but to suggest the two squads wouldn't have gone up, is ludicrous 

Different teams / squads, circumstances…. was clearly referring to the second time anyway…. Not both times….  Isn’t ludicrous at all!    It actually happened!   

Edited January 8, 2023 by ged in the onion bag

[Mullet 293]

17 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I thought it would be interesting to get a snapshot of hopes and expectations regarding promotion this season before our new manager gets to work in earnest.

I'd pretty much given upon on promotion this season but after hearing Wagner's post match today I feel more positive.

I think he is a man with plan and if the players are up to it I think we'll start heading in right direction.

We battered Blackburn in the 2nd half, 26 shots and 20 corners is a mad statistic it all comes down to player quality or lack of now.

 

[Mullet 293]

9 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

I think bad transfers more than the model itself got us relegated. Teams have stayed up on less. 

You need quality players for whatever level you play at and our transfers have not been good enough. That lies with Webber and he keeps chasing his tail by recruiting new managers to try and get something from the squad he bought.

Farke, Smith and now Wagner are all decent enough managers two of which tried with Webbers squad and failed to some degree, Farke in the Prem and Smith in the Chumps.

Now Its Wagners turn, I like what he says he knows what he wants. Are the players up to it? we'll see

 

 

[Fen Canary 849]

17 minutes ago, Mullet said:

You need quality players for whatever level you play at and our transfers have not been good enough. That lies with Webber and he keeps chasing his tail by recruiting new managers to try and get something from the squad he bought.

Farke, Smith and now Wagner are all decent enough managers two of which tried with Webbers squad and failed to some degree, Farke in the Prem and Smith in the Chumps.

Now Its Wagners turn, I like what he says he knows what he wants. Are the players up to it? we'll see

 

 

I’m intrigued as to why Webber gets the blame for signings not being good enough.

Yes I understand he’s the man at the top so responsibility should head upwards, but ultimately he’s not a scout so would have no more of an idea about which players would be a good signing talent wise as any of us on here.

When signing players he’d sit down with the manager and they’d identify which positions need strengthening and which attributes would be handy, then the scouts would be the ones to actually  identify the players to fill those roles, with Webber sorting out the financial side.

Now you can argue that we’ve overpaid for some which you can blame Webber for, although the players have all been youngish internationals with some coming from teams competing in Europes lesser cups so they’re never going to come cheaply, but to blame him for their supposed lack of ability seems strange to me. 

[CDMullins 436]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Different teams / squads, circumstances…. was clearly referring to the second time anyway…. Not both times….  Isn’t ludicrous at all!    It actually happened!   

He contributed to less than 1 in 4 of our goals.

[SwindonCanary 455]

With one days training we did look a better team. Imagine what he can do after a few weeks 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

2 hours ago, CDMullins said:

He contributed to less than 1 in 4 of our goals.

Is that goals and assists?   Didn’t he get 17 of each or close to it.   That’s 34 ish….  
 

Now either way, your maths seems awry but that’s by the by…… you expose your limited knowledge and understanding if you rely solely on stats rather than what’s happening before you in a football match…. Stats offer an indicator of performance but not the full picture…. For example, they don’t show who creates the openings (the assist for the assist if you like), who penetrates defences, gets us in behind, who frightens opponents, makes them change tactics, formations, personnel etc…. (Man for man, 5 at the back for examples).    Invariably that was Emi responsible for all this!    There are other stats and details you haven’t factored in either, like ball recoveries, ability to press, influence on Max Aaron’s performances, he ain’t been the same since Emi left!   Need I go on!    

[ged in the onion bag 856]

12 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

1. Yes, undoubtedly. Even if we come straight back down with a record low points scored (predicted by a few on here following both of our last two promotions but didn't happen), at the moment we need the money from the EPL. And if we are once again the laughing stock of fans from other clubs? Honestly, who gives a f*** about what other fans think.

2. Yes, depending on your definition of "reasonably". We are 3 points from the last play-off place and I see no reason why we shouldn't finish in the top 6-after that, anything can happen.

I give a **** about our integrity!    If we can’t compete, that’s not acceptable in my book!  

We’ve had the EPL money, we’re now skint and the team is worse!   Where’s the evidence that another promotion will improve things?   There is none!    Promotion represents desperation!

We need an identity, a reasonable squad, confidence, some quality, pace, power, familiarity as a group!    That needs time and patience!    We can’t develop players in the EPL!   

[CDMullins 436]

7 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Is that goals and assists?   Didn’t he get 17 of each or close to it.   That’s 34 ish….  
 

Now either way, your maths seems awry but that’s by the by…… you expose your limited knowledge and understanding if you rely solely on stats rather than what’s happening before you in a football match…. Stats offer an indicator of performance but not the full picture…. For example, they don’t show who creates the openings (the assist for the assist if you like), who penetrates defences, gets us in behind, who frightens opponents, makes them change tactics, formations, personnel etc…. (Man for man, 5 at the back for examples).    Invariably that was Emi responsible for all this!    There are other stats and details you haven’t factored in either, like ball recoveries, ability to press, influence on Max Aaron’s performances, he ain’t been the same since Emi left!   Need I go on!    

Yes please.

[king canary 7,624]

10 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m intrigued as to why Webber gets the blame for signings not being good enough.

Yes I understand he’s the man at the top so responsibility should head upwards, but ultimately he’s not a scout so would have no more of an idea about which players would be a good signing talent wise as any of us on here.

When signing players he’d sit down with the manager and they’d identify which positions need strengthening and which attributes would be handy, then the scouts would be the ones to actually  identify the players to fill those roles, with Webber sorting out the financial side.

Now you can argue that we’ve overpaid for some which you can blame Webber for, although the players have all been youngish internationals with some coming from teams competing in Europes lesser cups so they’re never going to come cheaply, but to blame him for their supposed lack of ability seems strange to me. 

Webber is far more involved that just sorting the financial side- that might be more of what McNally did.

Webber leads the whole sporting side of the club- he runs scouting team, sets the style of play he wants the team to play, is responsible for all transfers, etc etc.

He isn't a money man just signing off on figures- he'll know exactly what each player who joins is supposed to bring to the club, strengths, weaknesses etc. He'll have watched them extensively. He might not be the one to first identify them but if they aren't good enough then the buck stops with him. 

[shefcanary 2,435]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

He isn't a money man just signing off on figures

Given what happened with the playing budget last year, the need to borrow £65m pronto secured against future broadcast media rights (aka parachute payments) I think we can comfortably say Webber isn't a money man. But nor does it seem Richens is either to allow Webber to be so profligate, or the Board for that matter. 🤦🏻‍♂️😉

[horsefly 4,310]

12 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I give a **** about our integrity!    If we can’t compete, that’s not acceptable in my book!  

We’ve had the EPL money, we’re now skint and the team is worse!   Where’s the evidence that another promotion will improve things?   There is none!    Promotion represents desperation!

We need an identity, a reasonable squad, confidence, some quality, pace, power, familiarity as a group!    That needs time and patience!    We can’t develop players in the EPL!   

Utterly naïve as usual. On your plan we stay in the Championship for several seasons building up a squad that will somehow magically be in a better position to compete at PL level despite having no PL experience.

First, if we stay in the championship we won't be able to afford to bring in anyone likely to be capable of competing at PL level. Secondly, any talent we develop from the academy squads who shows enough prospect of being PL quality will have to be sold off to make up for the loss of PL money. Thirdly, any player with enough talent to compete at PL level is not going to hang around NCFC while it "consolidates" in mid-table Championship obscurity. Jesus! How much evidence do you need to see to see what happens to clubs who languish in the Championship.

Edited January 9, 2023 by horsefly

[DraytonBoy 159]

The first priority is to get the team playing as a unit again and to instil some confidence which I think is a big part of the problem right now, the play-offs should be easily obtainable given the gap is only three points, I'd be more doubtul if it was closer to ten.   

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

For me promotion is the priority for NEXT season, we've 10 out of contract in the summer, so let Wagner rebuild his team set for a proper go next season.

[CDMullins 436]

7 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

For me promotion is the priority for NEXT season, we've 10 out of contract in the summer, so let Wagner rebuild his team set for a proper go next season.

With Monopoly money?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

Webber is far more involved that just sorting the financial side- that might be more of what McNally did.

Webber leads the whole sporting side of the club- he runs scouting team, sets the style of play he wants the team to play, is responsible for all transfers, etc etc.

He isn't a money man just signing off on figures- he'll know exactly what each player who joins is supposed to bring to the club, strengths, weaknesses etc. He'll have watched them extensively. He might not be the one to first identify them but if they aren't good enough then the buck stops with him. 

It's needs adding that anybody good we're going for will likely be targets of other clubs, so it's quite possible we've had better targets that we haven't secured because of limits on wages and transfer fees; when then, or wage bill is burden enough.

But then we know this; that's part of why the Attanasios are getting involved.

Edited January 9, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie