Immigration hits all time record high

[Pyro Pete 1,920]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Never ceases to amaze me how strident the UN gets over these sorts of things when it comes to the countries that actually abuse human rights the least.

Talk about going for the low-hanging fruit.

It's actually a UK charity.

But, nice try.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

Just now, Pyro Pete said:

It's actually a UK charity.

But, nice try.

Bit iffy using the UN logo like that then.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

On 10/03/2023 at 16:21, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Indeed some 550.000 legal immigrants per year, with visas and or enough money to invest in a business or the stock markets. The Tories have developed a penchant for Russian oligarch who are spending money on their party/campaigns.

They can't stop the gangs that fill these desperate people into dinghies,  so they punish the end user of this hazardous and sad way to immigrate here instead.

Definitely needs to be more effort to take out the criminal gangs who traffic the people.

Digressing slightly, but I was wondering why it's heavily biased towards young men on the channel; then it struck me that the most likely reason is the women are siphoned off into sex-trafficking.

When you think about it, we probably had just as many coming over when we were in the EU, but they were in the backs of lorries instead of on boats, so less obvious.

Overall, though, between them the UN Convention on refugees and ECHR have put us in a spot where we no longer have any say as a country as to who stays and who goes. No way should that be allowed to stand in my view. If pulling out of either is a necessary step to get renegotiation in international law then that's probably a worthwhile thing to do. Then again, domestic legislation that overrules their rules is probably better in leaving a bit of wriggle room to open negotiations without abandoning the treaties entirely.

Nobody's going to start viewing asylum seekers positively in the UK (hand-wringers excepted of course) until the UK is seen to have a say in vetting applicants rather than being railroaded by charity-funded lawyers abusing international treaties that aren't fit for purpose.

Ironically, once again, the Guardian lays out best why this can't be left unaddressed even though it's obviously distorted somewhat given it's not remotely impartial.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/nine-in-10-people-refused-asylum-in-2020-free-to-remain-in-uk-home-office

Edited March 13, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,830]

Braverman.

Listened to her on R4 interviewed by Nick Robinson.

Two things struck me. 

1. How difficult can it really be to identify the 'people smugglers'  - I'm pretty sure a few sting operations / undercover MI5/6 operations could quickly identify and metaphorically puncture the people concerned - after-all the refugees seem to be able to find (and pay) them easily enough without any intelligence training !

2. Braverman herself is more 'Empire' than us natural Brits. Same as the Quebecois are more French than the French. Steeped in an idea of what the UK is (days of empire) as opposed to the reality. Her parents of Indian origin via Kenya and Mauritius emigrated here the same year **** Enoch Powell's  'rivers of blood' speech. A year later they wouldn't have been let in! Hmm.

[king canary 7,673]

42 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

2. Braverman herself is more 'Empire' than us natural Brits. Same as the Quebecois are more French than the French. Steeped in an idea of what the UK is (days of empire) as opposed to the reality. Her parents of Indian origin via Kenya and Mauritius emigrated here the same year **** Enoch Powell's  'rivers of blood' speech. A year later they wouldn't have been let in! Hmm.

Probably not what you meant but Braverman is as much a 'natural Brit' as anyone. That sort of language is loaded with racism.

[Yellow Fever 3,830]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

Probably not what you meant but Braverman is as much a 'natural Brit' as anyone. That sort of language is loaded with racism.

Its not what I meant at same time she's been brought up in an immigrant household that almost had picture of Queen on the wall! More British than the average Brit. Her parents had an 'idea' of Britishness from afar  - empire! (and yes they were British citizens). Same as many ex pats.

The point I'm trying to make it is that there is a romance or an idealism that can exist far removed from reality for any overseas population that harks back to an historical home. Same as the Irish in USA etc.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

 

39 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Its not what I meant at same time she's been brought up in an immigrant household that almost had picture of Queen on the wall! More British than the average Brit. Her parents had an 'idea' of Britishness from afar  - empire! (and yes they were British citizens). Same as many ex pats.

The point I'm trying to make it is that there is a romance or an idealism that can exist far removed from reality for any overseas population that harks back to an historical home. Same as the Irish in USA etc.

 

• A large chunk of those crossing the channel illegally are from predominantly Muslim countries.
• India has a very difficult history with Islam.
• There's a lot of tension between Buddhism and Islam.
• Braverman is of Indian descent and a Buddist.

Edited March 14, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I somehow think so much of the Front Bench still wants the UK to be a colonial power. We are out of Europe. We have an extremely ill equipped and maintained military. Our fleet is the smallest since Alfred the Great. We don't manufacture much for the world to depend on us. What have they left except the dream of colonial power. 

Remember India still has its caste system which is as stupid as our class system. If that isn't internal colonialism then what is? Suella has been educated to look down on members of society that don't fit in with her family's caste. Although as a Buddhist, she might view it differently from her parents who are Hindus.

Braverman has described herself as a "child of the British Empire". Her parents, who were from Mauritius and Kenya, came to the UK "with an admiration and gratitude for what Britain did for Mauritius and Kenya, and India". She believes that on the whole, "the British Empire was a force for good", and described herself as being "proud of the British Empire".

[Yellow Fever 3,830]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I somehow think so much of the Front Bench still wants the UK to be a colonial power. We are out of Europe. We have an extremely ill equipped and maintained military. Our fleet is the smallest since Alfred the Great. We don't manufacture much for the world to depend on us. What have they left except the dream of colonial power. 

Remember India still has its caste system which is as stupid as our class system. If that isn't internal colonialism then what is? Suella has been educated to look down on members of society that don't fit in with her family's caste. Although as a Buddhist, she might view it differently from her parents who are Hindus.

Braverman has described herself as a "child of the British Empire". Her parents, who were from Mauritius and Kenya, came to the UK "with an admiration and gratitude for what Britain did for Mauritius and Kenya, and India". She believes that on the whole, "the British Empire was a force for good", and described herself as being "proud of the British Empire".

Thanks KG.  Clearly there's some sort of 'throw-back' going on with Braverman - kind of what I was earlier trying to say earlier. Who else would in the UK call themselves a 'child of the empire' these days and I'm guessing that mindset informs her position & views.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Thanks KG.  Clearly there's some sort of 'throw-back' going on with Braverman - kind of what I was earlier trying to say earlier. Who else would in the UK call themselves a 'child of the empire' these days and I'm guessing that mindset informs her position & views.

More evidence, if it was needed of her arrogance and disregard for others 

“People we elect must take back control from people we don’t. Who include the judges.”

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

Afghan pilot faces deportation to Rwanda 

Tobias Ellwood -  This is not who we are

Tobias is close, but perhaps it should be "This is not who we were"

or maybe "This is not how many of us are, but unfortunately a few, notably some in positions of power, are"

😔

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

42 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Afghan pilot faces deportation to Rwanda 

Tobias Ellwood -  This is not who we are

Tobias is close, but perhaps it should be "This is not who we were"

or maybe "This is not how many of us are, but unfortunately a few, notably some in positions of power, are"

😔

I met yet another new customer today in France citing overcrowding as a motive for getting out of the UK.

The vast majority will want anyone where the UK owes them a clear debt to be able to stay. The way so many Afghans were abandoned to their fate in the withdrawal, arguably the entire population of the country, was shameful.

Herman posted a program called the Patch which goes to random postcodes looking for stories. Everywhere in the UK are stories of people struggling for a myriad different reasons in their day to day life. Why on Earth do you think large numbers of those people want to see opposition to the current government investing more energy into protecting the rights of strangers entering illegally over dealing with the day to day struggles of rightful UK residents?

One of the stories was about kids in one area illegally using pit bikes and scramblers on housing estates. It turned out there had been a motorbike track that had been widely used until it was sold off as development land. The reason it got sold off is because land is so much a premium because the whole damned country is overcrowded; lands too valuable for anything to be purely recreational for the sake of cramming people in or having farming land to feed them.

Most people can only care about so much. This man in this story is owed a clear debt by the UK; most will want him to stay. For the vast bulk, though, the UK owes them nothing; many people won't be remotely concerned about those entering illegally until they start seeing their own lives improving.

Edited March 28, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

28 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I met yet another new customer today in France citing overcrowding as a motive for getting out of the UK.

The vast majority will want anyone where the UK owes them a clear debt to be able to stay. The way so many Afghans were abandoned to their fate in the withdrawal, arguably the entire population of the country, was shameful.

Herman posted a program called the Patch which goes to random postcodes looking for stories. Everywhere in the UK are stories of people struggling for a myriad different reasons in their day to day life. Why on Earth do you think large numbers of those people want to see opposition to the current government investing more energy into protecting the rights of strangers entering illegally over dealing with the day to day struggles of rightful UK residents?

One of the stories was about kids in one area illegally using pit bikes and scramblers on housing estates. It turned out there had been a motorbike track that had been widely used until it was sold off as development land. The reason it got sold off is because land is so much a premium because the whole damned country is overcrowded; lands too valuable for anything to be purely recreational for the sake of cramming people in or having farming land to feed them.

Most people can only care about so much. This man in this story is owed a clear debt by the UK; most will want him to stay. For the vast bulk, though, the UK owes them nothing; many people won't be remotely concerned about those entering illegally until they start seeing their own lives improving.

Is this a Leader for the Daily Mail?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Is this a Leader for the Daily Mail?

I'm not a fan of the Mail, but the little bit of me that regrets never trying harder to make it as a journalist is flattered by the suggestion, regardless that it was likely intended to be anything but. 🙂

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not a fan of the Mail, but the little bit of me that regrets never trying harder to make it as a journalist is flattered by the suggestion, regardless that it was likely intended to be anything but. 🙂

No it wasn't. The bit about kids is nothing new. I was brought up on a housing estate and there were always bullies, thugs and vandals. And that was in an era when they had escaped the unfit housing and moved into nice new houses. It has nothing to do with overcrowding. Its what it is and ever will be.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

This from the Telegraph > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/29/channel-migrants-albania-crime-wave-numbers-jailed/

I suppose the usual suspects here will merely stick their fingers in their ears and go "Every dinghy arrival is an unalloyed boon for whom we should be rolling out the red carpets! You're all fick waycists and English people do lots of horrid things too and the Telegraph is owned by offshore billionaires and what about this, and what about that, and.."

 

[Foxy2600 305]

And all those citing poor Afghani 'Western Collaborators' not being able to get out in time, please remember the Yanks unilaterally decided to up sticks, leaving billions of $ worth of military materiel behind. Their view... "America's young sons continue to be killed, so women and girls can vote and remain in schools. Well that's not what we are there for." 

Different kind of State Loyalty when you compare Ukraine and Afghanistan - still, Democracy and a 'stone-age' religion will never be bed-fellows.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

This from the Telegraph > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/29/channel-migrants-albania-crime-wave-numbers-jailed/

I suppose the usual suspects here will merely stick their fingers in their ears and go "Every dinghy arrival is an unalloyed boon for whom we should be rolling out the red carpets! You're all fick waycists and English people do lots of horrid things too and the Telegraph is owned by offshore billionaires and what about this, and what about that, and.."

 

So why isn't your marvellous right wing government able to come up with a plan to stop them?

[TheGunnShow 5,995]

If immigrants are coming to work on the grey market, that's a classic sign that government has totally failed to process applications properly/in a timely manner and we already know there's a backlog of well over 100,000 cases. A problem caused by this hapless, incompetent government.

They're not fit for purpose. Get 'em out.

Asylum claim rejections show the UK government has little understanding of what people are fleeing – and it's costing lives (theconversation.com)

The truth about asylum - Refugee Council

 

[Herman 9,823]

I thought we had a returns agreement with Albania? Don't tell me that wasn't true either.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

So why isn't your marvellous right wing government able to come up with a plan to stop them?

Discussed this previously and came to the conclusion that right-wingers are a rarity in the present day conservative party.

Besides that one can always rely on Lefty civil servants to hinder -- The following just in:

Home Office civil servants are threatening to strike over the government’s Rwanda deportation policy, with the Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union claiming they are “going to have to consider” walkouts if members are “forced” to implement policies they consider unlawful. PCS ‘Head of Bargaining’ Paul O’Connor spoke on behalf of his fellow unelected bureaucrats this morning:

“If the Government carry on in the way they have, we are going to have to consider an industrial response to it. We have taken a view that it cannot go on. The hostile environment has got to be dismantled. It is just not working. It is not an effective immigration system. Our members are at the sharp end of this day in, day out and have to work in horrendous conditions. There will be no stomach amongst our members for implementing the Rwanda deal and Illegal Migration Bill, and they will inevitably come to their trade union to see if there is recourse to stop it happening.”

This is yet another instance of jumped-up civil servants going rogue on policy. Last year, Guido reported similar threats under Priti Patel, with Home Office staff claiming the Rwanda policy was affecting their mental health and some felt they had some kind of moral duty to speak out against the elected politicians who actually have a democratic mandate. A government source tells Guido they expect most of this is, as usual, coming from the lower-ranking staff who’re worried how they’ll explain themselves to their friends at dinner parties:

“I think that at senior levels of the home office civil servants understand the system is broken and are working hard to make it possible […] I suspect that is a low/middle ranking bureaucrats mouthing off…”

Of course, with the Home Office half-empty most of the time, will anyone even notice?

 

[Yellow Fever 3,830]

46 minutes ago, Herman said:

I thought we had a returns agreement with Albania? Don't tell me that wasn't true either.

That news hasn't filtered down yet to HWC. Give it a year or more.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

20 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Discussed this previously and came to the conclusion that right-wingers are a rarity in the present day conservative party.

Besides that one can always rely on Lefty civil servants to hinder -- The following just in:

Home Office civil servants are threatening to strike over the government’s Rwanda deportation policy, with the Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union claiming they are “going to have to consider” walkouts if members are “forced” to implement policies they consider unlawful. PCS ‘Head of Bargaining’ Paul O’Connor spoke on behalf of his fellow unelected bureaucrats this morning:

“If the Government carry on in the way they have, we are going to have to consider an industrial response to it. We have taken a view that it cannot go on. The hostile environment has got to be dismantled. It is just not working. It is not an effective immigration system. Our members are at the sharp end of this day in, day out and have to work in horrendous conditions. There will be no stomach amongst our members for implementing the Rwanda deal and Illegal Migration Bill, and they will inevitably come to their trade union to see if there is recourse to stop it happening.”

This is yet another instance of jumped-up civil servants going rogue on policy. Last year, Guido reported similar threats under Priti Patel, with Home Office staff claiming the Rwanda policy was affecting their mental health and some felt they had some kind of moral duty to speak out against the elected politicians who actually have a democratic mandate. A government source tells Guido they expect most of this is, as usual, coming from the lower-ranking staff who’re worried how they’ll explain themselves to their friends at dinner parties:

“I think that at senior levels of the home office civil servants understand the system is broken and are working hard to make it possible […] I suspect that is a low/middle ranking bureaucrats mouthing off…”

Of course, with the Home Office half-empty most of the time, will anyone even notice?

 

Note the word "lawful"