Striving to make sense of the Ukraine war

[horsefly 4,303]

Just now, BroadstairsR said:

Stop shouting, you'll wake the neighbours. It must be disgustingly early in deepest Norfolk.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! LOSER!!!

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

Embarrassing. 

[horsefly 4,303]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Embarrassing. 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! LOSER!!!

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! LOSER!!!

I give up.

No choice, having been faced with those intellectual masterpieces from such an expert.

I suppose that nonsense amounts to nothing more than a weak attempt at having the last word.

One more time, Billy Boy.

[horsefly 4,303]

1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

I give up.

No choice, having been faced with those intellectual masterpieces from such an expert.

I suppose that nonsense amounts to nothing more than a weak attempt at having the last word.

One more time, Billy Boy.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! LOSER!!!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

On 31/05/2022 at 23:03, Yellow Fever said:

I also think there is a lot of positioning i.e Loathsome Leadsom. Wants to be on the winning side whatever that is, so is critical but no letter (as yet ?). Anyway wrong thread.

Sometimes you just find yourself in an argument you never intended by just making an observation! That's life.

 

I'd missed this. You call it an observation; I would call it a completely off-topic partisan assertion not supported by actual fact.

Where I would say the current government has made a new departure regarding being caught out in dodgy dealings is that they've become more resistant to resigning, which is an unacceptable consequence of having such an appalling opposition leader foisted on the country from 2015 to 2019. I'm very pleased to see Starmer restoring effective opposition, which is making it much harder for government to be so brazen .

But in terms of corruption 'getting worse', I'll once more refer to our position in the current CPI (11th best in the world) and compare it to our position in the CPI in 2010 (20th best in the world) when we were in the last days of a government which had doctored an intelligence report to justify taking us into an invasion not sanctioned by the UN based on an unfounded assertion that has since been a mainstay in the argument pushed by apologists for Vladimir Putin for his current invasion of Ukraine. Said government went on to drive John Kelly to suicide for blowing the whistle by outing him as the source as per the publicly acknowledged wishes of Alistair Campbell, had a whitewash public inquiry that absolved it of blame (which is largely discredited now) and neutered the BBC for exposing it.

Edited June 2, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,780]

 

[horsefly 4,303]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/enemy-tongue-eastern-ukrainians-reject-their-russian-birth-language/ar-AAY4LAX?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5d6783594a8a442ca522d9db5eb1a4a4

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Far from quoting any of the colluding media outlets that could not be bothered to send a single journalist to cover the peace/cease fire negotiations, but are happy to spew out the daily war **** directed at us, here is a man who was bothered to go there and report from it.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/biden-works-to-prolong-ukraine-war/comment-page-1/?fbclid=IwAR0H7683st-tS4LIeWSfxqT6HAfWsvcmiZuW4PBiUx4U4835xQ1FKj9t3HY#comments

Here is a little snippet for the 'interlectual masters on here'

"Ukraine is objecting to this plan to export its own wheat, because it objects to the removal of the mines, which I should be clear were put down in the sea lanes by Ukraine to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa. There is monumental hypocrisy by the West on this, blaming Russia for preventing the export of the grain while it is actually blocked in by Ukraine’s own mines, which they currently refuse to allow Turkey to remove."

[horsefly 4,303]

3 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Far from quoting any of the colluding media outlets that could not be bothered to send a single journalist to cover the peace/cease fire negotiations, but are happy to spew out the daily war **** directed at us, here is a man who was bothered to go there and report from it.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/biden-works-to-prolong-ukraine-war/comment-page-1/?fbclid=IwAR0H7683st-tS4LIeWSfxqT6HAfWsvcmiZuW4PBiUx4U4835xQ1FKj9t3HY#comments

Here is a little snippet for the 'interlectual masters on here'

"Ukraine is objecting to this plan to export its own wheat, because it objects to the removal of the mines, which I should be clear were put down in the sea lanes by Ukraine to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa. There is monumental hypocrisy by the West on this, blaming Russia for preventing the export of the grain while it is actually blocked in by Ukraine’s own mines, which they currently refuse to allow Turkey to remove."

Oh dear! The failed diplomat Murray, who has no official capacity whatsoever, now describes himself as a (self-appointed) peace envoy. Are the no levels of embarrassment that will restrain this egomaniac from such pompous nonsense. The fact that he can come up with the following sort of statement shows you the level of his depraved mindset, "There are hundreds of Western journalists in Ukraine, effectively embedded with the Ukrainian authorities, producing war po*rn". The rest of us consider journalists embedded in a war zone reporting on its progress, and exposing the war crimes committed by an illegal invader to be precisely what a war correspondent should be doing. For Murray that's just "pornography". 

As for your quote about Ukrainian sea mines; on what planet would it make sense for Ukraine to remove protections that the Russians would immediately exploit? You would have to be an idiot of monumental proportions to trust Russia on any promises they might make not to do so, given their promises not to invade the Ukraine in the first place. If the Russians are truly concerned to see the grain exported from Ukraine to feed the developing world there are plenty of alternatives they could agree to, but of course it's blatantly obvious that Russia is not remotely interested in anything other than furthering its own war aims.

I can't help but laugh at the shamelessness of Murray claiming that, "The experience has made me so cynical that I am left wondering if the interests of the powerful agricultural lobbies in both the EU and USA are influencing policy. High world food prices benefit some powerful interests." Swiftly followed by his usual begging, "Forgive me for pointing out that my ability to provide this coverage is entirely dependent on your kind voluntary subscriptions which keep this blog going." The experience of reading Murray's bilge has in turn made me so cynical that I am left wondering if the interests of certain small-time failed diplomats in keeping their personal careers alive involve them in exploiting a dreadful war to keep their personal coffers filled by the gullible.

Edited June 8, 2022 by horsefly

[1902 1,167]

4 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Far from quoting any of the colluding media outlets that could not be bothered to send a single journalist to cover the peace/cease fire negotiations, but are happy to spew out the daily war **** directed at us, here is a man who was bothered to go there and report from it.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/biden-works-to-prolong-ukraine-war/comment-page-1/?fbclid=IwAR0H7683st-tS4LIeWSfxqT6HAfWsvcmiZuW4PBiUx4U4835xQ1FKj9t3HY#comments

Here is a little snippet for the 'interlectual masters on here'

"Ukraine is objecting to this plan to export its own wheat, because it objects to the removal of the mines, which I should be clear were put down in the sea lanes by Ukraine to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa. There is monumental hypocrisy by the West on this, blaming Russia for preventing the export of the grain while it is actually blocked in by Ukraine’s own mines, which they currently refuse to allow Turkey to remove."

Except if Russia wasn't attacking the coastline of Ukriane, there would be no need for mines. 

The key point being 'to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa.' 

No leg to stand on as always.

Also, do you actually watch any football or do you just come on here to spam us with the thoughts of a crap 'journalist' in Craig Murray and repeat poorly thought out pro-russia talking points?

Edited June 8, 2022 by 1902

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

19 hours ago, 1902 said:

Except if Russia wasn't attacking the coastline of Ukriane, there would be no need for mines. 

The key point being 'to prevent amphibious attack on Odessa.' 

No leg to stand on as always.

Also, do you actually watch any football or do you just come on here to spam us with the thoughts of a crap 'journalist' in Craig Murray and repeat poorly thought out pro-russia talking points?

As always, you are attacking the messenger without reading the blog post, typical for someone who is fed on falsehoods that are never evidenced or witnessed by others. Craig is not pro Russian, he is pro peace and wants to see a cease fire.

If you have other evidence from our  'we don't care about facts pro nuclear war **** media' bring them here.

Turkey, a NATO country, has offered to clear the mines and let grain out to those dependent on it in the middle east Africa and elsewhere, but Ukraine has objected to have these mines cleared. They are starving their own people by setting 50,000tons of  Mariupols wheat supplies alight whilst fleeing the city.

Maybe you can answer this question. why is the EU sacrificing its sovereignty and make sacrifices in order to preserve a waning US hegemony?

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

21 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! The failed diplomat Murray, who has no official capacity whatsoever, now describes himself as a (self-appointed) peace envoy. Are the no levels of embarrassment that will restrain this egomaniac from such pompous nonsense. The fact that he can come up with the following sort of statement shows you the level of his depraved mindset, "There are hundreds of Western journalists in Ukraine, effectively embedded with the Ukrainian authorities, producing war po*rn". The rest of us consider journalists embedded in a war zone reporting on its progress, and exposing the war crimes committed by an illegal invader to be precisely what a war correspondent should be doing. For Murray that's just "pornography". 

As for your quote about Ukrainian sea mines; on what planet would it make sense for Ukraine to remove protections that the Russians would immediately exploit? You would have to be an idiot of monumental proportions to trust Russia on any promises they might make not to do so, given their promises not to invade the Ukraine in the first place. If the Russians are truly concerned to see the grain exported from Ukraine to feed the developing world there are plenty of alternatives they could agree to, but of course it's blatantly obvious that Russia is not remotely interested in anything other than furthering its own war aims.

I can't help but laugh at the shamelessness of Murray claiming that, "The experience has made me so cynical that I am left wondering if the interests of the powerful agricultural lobbies in both the EU and USA are influencing policy. High world food prices benefit some powerful interests." Swiftly followed by his usual begging, "Forgive me for pointing out that my ability to provide this coverage is entirely dependent on your kind voluntary subscriptions which keep this blog going." The experience of reading Murray's bilge has in turn made me so cynical that I am left wondering if the interests of certain small-time failed diplomats in keeping their personal careers alive involve them in exploiting a dreadful war to keep their personal coffers filled by the gullible.

you are a willing stooge and obviously don't care about Ukraine and its people who are being rubbed out as patsies for US interests, not even when Russian sanctions are breaking your personal bank with higher gas, petrol oil and food prices. Talk about the power of lies and how they muddle minds. The misguided and brain dead farts here will soon have to answer to reality, and its not some tax break for the better off that will be deciding what is going to happen.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

btw. horsefly. you are a **** poor coward for not taking your personal views/animosities and accusations directly to Craig.

[1902 1,167]

25 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

btw. horsefly. you are a **** poor coward for not taking your personal views/animosities and accusations directly to Craig.

None of us are acquaintances with Craig. We wouldn't even mention him if it wasn't for you, he is irrelevant to our lives. His views are ridiculous. He is an apologist for aggression and a conspiracy theorist. 

If Russia wants Africa to eat, Russia can immediately leave Ukraine and declare a ceasefire rather than blame Ukraine for its own threats to Odessa.

Also, why are you on a football forum again? Nobody else on here posts exclusively about politics. 

[horsefly 4,303]

2 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

btw. horsefly. you are a **** poor coward for not taking your personal views/animosities and accusations directly to Craig.

Btw dic*khead! you're the one who posted his appalling guff on this site so either stop posting it, or stop being a pri*ck by not expecting a response. As for going on his site, why would I want to boost the number of his site visits? The rubbish of his that you have posted on here is more than enough to determine that the man is a failed small-time diplomat who seeks to disguise his apologising for Putin's murderous dictatorship by fabricating very obvious lies. If you are gullible enough to suck up his tripe and fund his lifestyle that's your problem not mine. But do feel free to pass on my comments to him.

Edited June 9, 2022 by horsefly

[horsefly 4,303]

2 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

you are a willing stooge and obviously don't care about Ukraine and its people who are being rubbed out as patsies for US interests, not even when Russian sanctions are breaking your personal bank with higher gas, petrol oil and food prices. Talk about the power of lies and how they muddle minds. The misguided and brain dead farts here will soon have to answer to reality, and its not some tax break for the better off that will be deciding what is going to happen.

 

Whereas your persistent description of Ukrainians as Naz*is, and refusal to call on Russia to withdraw from its illegal invasion shows remarkable compassion for the people of Ukraine. You really are an unconscionable idiot. That you fall for the rubbish that Murray posts says everything. How much did you donate to his begging bowl for the last pile of tripe he published?

[horsefly 4,303]

3 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Turkey, a NATO country, has offered to clear the mines and let grain out to those dependent on it in the middle east Africa and elsewhere, but Ukraine has objected to have these mines cleared. They are starving their own people by setting 50,000tons of  Mariupols wheat supplies alight whilst fleeing the city.

 

Are you really that stupid? Perhaps you haven't noticed but Russia has illegally invaded Ukrainian sovereign territory. In what fuc*ked up world view would it make sense for Ukraine to remove mines from the sea around Odessa to allow Russia an easy route to invade that region too. FFS! If Russia wants the grain to go to Africa all it needs to do is withdraw its forces from Ukrainian land. And it would also help if the Russians stopped stealing that grain too.

[kirku 1,334]

Remember when that moron held up this Caitlin Johnson as some kind of credible source?

That was fun

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 09/06/2022 at 13:51, horsefly said:

Are you really that stupid? Perhaps you haven't noticed but Russia has illegally invaded Ukrainian sovereign territory. In what fuc*ked up world view would it make sense for Ukraine to remove mines from the sea around Odessa to allow Russia an easy route to invade that region too. FFS! If Russia wants the grain to go to Africa all it needs to do is withdraw its forces from Ukrainian land. And it would also help if the Russians stopped stealing that grain too.

More personal abuse from a horsefly. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in the world, whilst London is the meeting place of most criminal fraud and tax evation.

Its the UN negotiating with Russia and other interested parties, in a NATO country. The grain, a new harvest is only a month away, is rotting in the silos, it does not bring any money in. The EU is importing grain from the US, ten times more than before and they are moving Ukrainian grain into Europe.

Russia has enough grain to support itself, it does not need Ukraines and the false propaganda you are lapping up does not tell you about reality in Ukraine.

Here is Biden in 1997, after NATO pledged not to expand into Baltic countries and or eastern European countries, not that this will stop the shills for war on here.

https://twitter.com/ImReadinHere/status/1500782351831662592

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 09/06/2022 at 11:21, 1902 said:

None of us are acquaintances with Craig. We wouldn't even mention him if it wasn't for you, he is irrelevant to our lives. His views are ridiculous. He is an apologist for aggression and a conspiracy theorist. 

If Russia wants Africa to eat, Russia can immediately leave Ukraine and declare a ceasefire rather than blame Ukraine for its own threats to Odessa.

Also, why are you on a football forum again? Nobody else on here posts exclusively about politics. 

"None of us are acquaintances with Craig" you say. Nor are the thousands of people who frequent his blog, of whom some are commenters, anybody can speak freely on Craigs blog and they all want to find some real information, to get away from the claptrap lies we are fed by the 5 eyes,  for decades.

You are such a pervert of history, Craig was the youngest and most gifted diplomat for some time, but what would you know about his work. He knows eastern Europe and has been actively involved  helping in Africa to find peace.

Africa hunger has got nothing to do with Russia leaving Ukraine, who does not care about its people, training women as canon fodder. Why  would they not want to earn money with their main exports? not even allow a NATO country to help them, even when Russia greed to grain transports to Africa and Yemen, which is being bombed into the stone age with UK bombs.

You are not informed of what is happening in Turkey because you don't care, you are a Russo phobic screamer.

I have posted on the EDP and pink un for over 2 decades, but what would you know. Please mind your own business.

[king canary 7,609]

2 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

"None of us are acquaintances with Craig" you say. Nor are the thousands of people who frequent his blog, of whom some are commenters, anybody can speak freely on Craigs blog and they all want to find some real information, to get away from the claptrap lies we are fed by the 5 eyes,  for decades.

You are such a pervert of history, Craig was the youngest and most gifted diplomat for some time, but what would you know about his work. He knows eastern Europe and has been actively involved  helping in Africa to find peace.

Africa hunger has got nothing to do with Russia leaving Ukraine, who does not care about its people, training women as canon fodder. Why  would they not want to earn money with their main exports? not even allow a NATO country to help them, even when Russia greed to grain transports to Africa and Yemen, which is being bombed into the stone age with UK bombs.

You are not informed of what is happening in Turkey because you don't care, you are a Russo phobic screamer.

I have posted on the EDP and pink un for over 2 decades, but what would you know. Please mind your own business.

Your obsession with 'Craig' is quite bizarre. 

As 1902 says you're the one who obsessively posts about him. The idea that anyone who is then critical of his opinions should go to his blog and take it up with him is bizarre. 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Just now, king canary said:

Your obsession with 'Craig' is quite bizarre. 

As 1902 says you're the one who obsessively posts about him. The idea that anyone who is then critical of his opinions should go to his blog and take it up with him is bizarre. 

I have been reading his and other books, very much recommended, he is a personal friend since the disgusting treatment he received by his employers, after he blew the whistle on our state torture. I was also his election agent. The UK public loved Jimmy Saville and his personal access to Maggie and the hoite poloite, now that was 'bizarre'

[horsefly 4,303]

20 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

More personal abuse from a horsefly. Ukraine is the most corrupt country in the world, whilst London is the meeting place of most criminal fraud and tax evation.

Its the UN negotiating with Russia and other interested parties, in a NATO country. The grain, a new harvest is only a month away, is rotting in the silos, it does not bring any money in. The EU is importing grain from the US, ten times more than before and they are moving Ukrainian grain into Europe.

Russia has enough grain to support itself, it does not need Ukraines and the false propaganda you are lapping up does not tell you about reality in Ukraine.

Here is Biden in 1997, after NATO pledged not to expand into Baltic countries and or eastern European countries, not that this will stop the shills for war on here.

https://twitter.com/ImReadinHere/status/1500782351831662592

It was you that started with the personal abuse dumbo:

"you are a willing stooge and obviously don't care about Ukraine and its people who are being rubbed out as patsies for US interests, not even when Russian sanctions are breaking your personal bank with higher gas, petrol oil and food prices. Talk about the power of lies and how they muddle minds. The misguided and brain dead farts here will soon have to answer to reality, and its not some tax break for the better off that will be deciding what is going to happen."

"btw. horsefly. you are a **** poor coward"

If you can't take it back don't hand it out.

The rest of your pro-Russian propaganda is as pathetically gullible as usual.

Edited June 14, 2022 by horsefly

[king canary 7,609]

38 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

I have been reading his and other books, very much recommended, he is a personal friend since the disgusting treatment he received by his employers, after he blew the whistle on our state torture. I was also his election agent. The UK public loved Jimmy Saville and his personal access to Maggie and the hoite poloite, now that was 'bizarre'

Yes we understand you 'recommend' his stuff. You'd have to blind to not get that.

A few on here have clicked one of the many 100's of links to his output that you've posted here and drawn the conclusion that he isn't the clear sighted teller of truth you think he is. As I pointed out on page one of this thread he has zero credibility on all things Russia with me after his nonsensical attempts to avoid the very obvious conclusion about Sailsbury (which I'm sure you're going to tell me actually wasn't a Russian assassination attempt, yada yada PORTON DOWN yada yada GAY BODYBUILDERS).  

I'm afraid the conclusion most on here have drawn is you're a crank repeatedly regurgitating **** from another crank who you happen to be mates with. Have at it but don't be surprised when people don't engage.

[horsefly 4,303]

45 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

I have been reading his and other books, very much recommended, he is a personal friend since the disgusting treatment he received by his employers, after he blew the whistle on our state torture. I was also his election agent. The UK public loved Jimmy Saville and his personal access to Maggie and the hoite poloite, now that was 'bizarre'

Now we know why you are obsessed with the lunatic conspiracy theorist. Clearly you did a great job as his election agent.

BTW who the hell are the "hoite poloite" supposed to be. 

[horsefly 4,303]

1 hour ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

You are such a pervert of history, Craig was the youngest and most gifted diplomat for some time, but what would you know about his work. He knows eastern Europe and has been actively involved  helping in Africa to find peace.

Hahahaha! Utter rubbish! "Gifted diplomat", hilarious. Just who the hell are you to judge who was the "most gifted diplomat for some time"? Are you a top dog at the Foreign Office with knowledge of every diplomatic appointee? Somehow I don't think so. 

Perhaps if Murray hadn't spent his time chasing after a stripper in Uzbekistan, a woman he dumped his wife and kids for, he might have lasted more than 2 paltry years. And just how the hell has he been "helping find peace"? The man has no official role whatsoever, or maybe he does within the NKVD. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Amazing. Invading a smaller, harmless country's sovereign territory for no reason whatsoever is something that people DEFEND?

[1902 1,167]

2 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

"None of us are acquaintances with Craig" you say. Nor are the thousands of people who frequent his blog, of whom some are commenters, anybody can speak freely on Craigs blog and they all want to find some real information, to get away from the claptrap lies we are fed by the 5 eyes,  for decades.

You are such a pervert of history, Craig was the youngest and most gifted diplomat for some time, but what would you know about his work. He knows eastern Europe and has been actively involved  helping in Africa to find peace.

Africa hunger has got nothing to do with Russia leaving Ukraine, who does not care about its people, training women as canon fodder. Why  would they not want to earn money with their main exports? not even allow a NATO country to help them, even when Russia greed to grain transports to Africa and Yemen, which is being bombed into the stone age with UK bombs.

You are not informed of what is happening in Turkey because you don't care, you are a Russo phobic screamer.

I have posted on the EDP and pink un for over 2 decades, but what would you know. Please mind your own business.

You have posted for the last few years about one sole subject. The opinions of Craig Murray. Never about football.

The most gifted diplomat of some time is your opinion. I doubt its shared by many others. Especially because he appeared to not realise that the British government does seriously dodgy deals with some grim regimes until deep into a career with the FCO, which implies that he either decided to be shocked and appalled just as it suited him or alternatively wasnt that good at reading the geopolitical room.

Ok, you say I'm Russophobic. I confess to being very opposed to the Putin regime but that's as far as that one stretches. As for your views, I think you love authoritarian regimes and have deeply prejudices views of Ukrainians. I suspect that's because you idolised the USSR and you just transferred allegiance to its kleptocratic-ethno state successor in Moscow.

You like the idea of Putin winning this war because you excited by the idea of the return to a world where you can cheer on an adversary to the USA. The tricky people refusing to participate in your little clash of empires fantasy are now getting the full brunt of your ire.

As someone said, you are fairly widely regarded as a crank and your support for a war of aggression just makes you look pathetic.

So yeah. I'll mind my own business but as this is a public forum, I would regard your motives and reasons for being here as everyone who posts concern. Personally I suspect you are just not talented enough to be a Kremlin propagandist so entertain yourself on here out of desperation.

[king canary 7,609]

 OH FOR ****S SAKE