Striving to make sense of the Ukraine war

[horsefly 4,301]

28 minutes ago, king canary said:

 OH FOR ****S SAKE

Haha! You obviously hadn't realised that Murray is also the most gifted football critic of his generation.

[kirku 1,334]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

 OH FOR ****S SAKE

You have got to be joking!

[kirku 1,334]

22 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

"None of us are acquaintances with Craig" you say. Nor are the thousands of people who frequent his blog, of whom some are commenters, anybody can speak freely on Craigs blog and they all want to find some real information, to get away from the claptrap lies we are fed by the 5 eyes,  for decades.

You are such a pervert of history, Craig was the youngest and most gifted diplomat for some time, but what would you know about his work. He knows eastern Europe and has been actively involved  helping in Africa to find peace.

Africa hunger has got nothing to do with Russia leaving Ukraine, who does not care about its people, training women as canon fodder. Why  would they not want to earn money with their main exports? not even allow a NATO country to help them, even when Russia greed to grain transports to Africa and Yemen, which is being bombed into the stone age with UK bombs.

You are not informed of what is happening in Turkey because you don't care, you are a Russo phobic screamer.

I have posted on the EDP and pink un for over 2 decades, but what would you know. Please mind your own business.

Hi Craig

[king canary 7,609]

Just now, kirku said:

You have got to be joking!

Apparently not.

Tin foil hat moment, maybe by interreacting with NNLHHI maybe we are in fact taking our opinions to Craig...

[kirku 1,334]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Apparently not.

Tin foil hat moment, maybe by interreacting with NNLHHI maybe we are in fact taking our opinions to Craig...

I'd put money on it

I was going to post exactly the same thing but the poster's name was too long and I was too lazy to figure out the acronym

Edited June 14, 2022 by kirku

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 13/06/2022 at 14:36, 1902 said:

You have posted for the last few years about one sole subject. The opinions of Craig Murray. Never about football.

The most gifted diplomat of some time is your opinion. I doubt its shared by many others. Especially because he appeared to not realise that the British government does seriously dodgy deals with some grim regimes until deep into a career with the FCO, which implies that he either decided to be shocked and appalled just as it suited him or alternatively wasnt that good at reading the geopolitical room.

Ok, you say I'm Russophobic. I confess to being very opposed to the Putin regime but that's as far as that one stretches. As for your views, I think you love authoritarian regimes and have deeply prejudices views of Ukrainians. I suspect that's because you idolised the USSR and you just transferred allegiance to its kleptocratic-ethno state successor in Moscow.

You like the idea of Putin winning this war because you excited by the idea of the return to a world where you can cheer on an adversary to the USA. The tricky people refusing to participate in your little clash of empires fantasy are now getting the full brunt of your ire.

As someone said, you are fairly widely regarded as a crank and your support for a war of aggression just makes you look pathetic.

So yeah. I'll mind my own business but as this is a public forum, I would regard your motives and reasons for being here as everyone who posts concern. Personally I suspect you are just not talented enough to be a Kremlin propagandist so entertain yourself on here out of desperation.

I am a City fan and don't need to post on football as I talk to other City fans.

 

It is not just my opinion but that of many in the FO, make of that what you want.

I idolise no regime, but go by what they say and whether we are engaging diplomatically with it. If you have any evidence of the % eyes engaging with Russia and European countries to work out a long term European security agreement, please be so kind and post a link to it here. I'm not in favor of using Eutope as the next warzone for US arms concerns, however much fuel some here might want to throw on the fire. The need for a comprehensive European security agreement is not going to go away and its time to engage, not give arms to dubious coup plotters, and self serving presidents.

I am in favour of real proportional electoral systems and countries that use it. Looking at what is governing us at present, I could envisage pulling our MP's out of a random computer list of constituency NI numbers and empower them for 4 years, with no right to re election. At the next election one could switch the gender by just choosing from the female/male NI numbers and one four year term will cut the cozyness/corruption that can develop within power systems. We are supporting a president who is a comedian at heart, scared of not doing as Biden/Nuland tell him, so why should we not select a random butcher/cleaner/or seamstress as our representatives? the idea that political parties have the god given right to rule the country has resulted in the current systemic problems, real change will be inevitable.

My only desperation is for sustainable practices and policies, i.e. the greatest threat to all of us and a reason to come together globally, rather than live of creating wars.

Thanks for calling me a crank, that's what they said of many people who have changed society, from Suffragettes to inventors and or writers such as  Richard Dawkins. I am not supporting Putins war, I'm opposed and appalled by the longterm US plan working to get at Russia, which chimes with the UK's very own long term  animosities.

 

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 13/06/2022 at 13:20, horsefly said:

Hahahaha! Utter rubbish! "Gifted diplomat", hilarious. Just who the hell are you to judge who was the "most gifted diplomat for some time"? Are you a top dog at the Foreign Office with knowledge of every diplomatic appointee? Somehow I don't think so. 

Perhaps if Murray hadn't spent his time chasing after a stripper in Uzbekistan, a woman he dumped his wife and kids for, he might have lasted more than 2 paltry years. And just how the hell has he been "helping find peace"? The man has no official role whatsoever, or maybe he does within the NKVD. 

you are such a tabloid addict, I pity that you can't read a book that will tell you what has happened in Sierra Leone and the neighbouring countries, you are like a sun scribe who writes ****e about something he does not know the first thing about.

Do you know what it means to boil a scientists to death in a vat of hot oil? you are an apologist for the regime the UK dealt with then and now. I pity you.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 13/06/2022 at 12:55, king canary said:

Yes we understand you 'recommend' his stuff. You'd have to blind to not get that.

A few on here have clicked one of the many 100's of links to his output that you've posted here and drawn the conclusion that he isn't the clear sighted teller of truth you think he is. As I pointed out on page one of this thread he has zero credibility on all things Russia with me after his nonsensical attempts to avoid the very obvious conclusion about Sailsbury (which I'm sure you're going to tell me actually wasn't a Russian assassination attempt, yada yada PORTON DOWN yada yada GAY BODYBUILDERS).  

I'm afraid the conclusion most on here have drawn is you're a crank repeatedly regurgitating **** from another crank who you happen to be mates with. Have at it but don't be surprised when people don't engage.

why do you bother, the king wears no cloth and it takes a crank to tell him. BTW. when did you last see the Skripals, magically surviving military grade nerve agents?  they are not in NZ. keep chewing the khat.

[horsefly 4,301]

7 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

you are such a tabloid addict, I pity that you can't read a book that will tell you what has happened in Sierra Leone and the neighbouring countries, you are like a sun scribe who writes ****e about something he does not know the first thing about.

Do you know what it means to boil a scientists to death in a vat of hot oil? you are an apologist for the regime the UK dealt with then and now. I pity you.

Your comments show you to be an utter simpleton. Do feel free to point out where I have ever supported "boiling a scientist to death in a vat of hot oil", or where I have said one word in support of the regime you claim I am an apologist for. You can't, because you made it up in your sad little dictator loving mind, just like virtually everything else you post on here.

You're the sicko who has explicitly supported an illegal invasion by a dictator responsible for massive numbers of war crimes, including rape, murder and torture, against innocent civilian people. Frankly you should hang your head in shame for the things you have posted, but of course all you will do regurgitate the same utter crap from your fantasy failed diplomat. You really are a sad deluded pea-brain.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

here is something from a British journalist who is not writing to please but about what he can evidence and see proof for.

another link and person who does not believe in baloney.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/06/11/were-getting-used-fake-news-and-were-getting-tired-of-ukraine-war-here-why-you-should-be-worried/

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Your comments show you to be an utter simpleton. Do feel free to point out where I have ever supported "boiling a scientist to death in a vat of hot oil", or where I have said one word in support of the regime you claim I am an apologist for. You can't, because you made it up in your sad little dictator loving mind, just like virtually everything else you post on here.

You're the sicko who has explicitly supported an illegal invasion by a dictator responsible for massive numbers of war crimes, including rape, murder and torture, against innocent civilian people. Frankly you should hang your head in shame for the things you have posted, but of course all you will do regurgitate the same utter crap from your fantasy failed diplomat. You really are a sad deluded pea-brain.

 

you are a fake news victim, live with it.

[horsefly 4,301]

13 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

you are a fake news victim, live with it.

Hahahahahaha! The man who regurgitates the utter tripe spewed by Craig Murray with such an embarrassingly childish crush, accuses others of being victims of fake news. So utterly embarrassing is that crush that he fell for Murray's claim that the Russian spies who poisoned the Skripals were just two gay bodybuilders in search of steroids in that hotbed of drug activity, Salisbury. You couldn't make it up! (Oh! he did)

Very interesting that you don't even make an attempt to hide the fact of your support for a mass murdering dictator. Just the same boring repetition of the claim that everyone else on this site is a victim of fake news and only your God Craig knows the truth. Truly pathetic!

Edited June 15, 2022 by horsefly

[Sheva 123]

My friends fighting on the front line against the Russian invaders are willing to fight to the death, it’s better than being captured. 
 

Here’s a little example ;

 

[king canary 7,609]

20 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

why do you bother, the king wears no cloth and it takes a crank to tell him. BTW. when did you last see the Skripals, magically surviving military grade nerve agents?  they are not in NZ. keep chewing the khat.

Shhhh Craig

[horsefly 4,301]

21 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

BTW. when did you last see the Skripals, magically surviving military grade nerve agents?

Surely not Russian nerve agents? Don't you mean body building steroids aimed at the international gay market?

And just to bring some sanity to bear on your tripe; they didn't "magically survive", they required very intensive medical intervention. Alas, Dawn Sturgess didn't receive that help in quick enough time. 

[king canary 7,609]

21 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

I am a City fan and don't need to post on football as I talk to other City fans.

 

So you joined a football forum full of Norwich City fans to talk about...Craig Murray? Could you not talk to them about your Craig Murray obsession too? We'd all be very grateful.

[horsefly 4,301]

13 minutes ago, king canary said:

So you joined a football forum full of Norwich City fans to talk about...Craig Murray? Could you not talk to them about your Craig Murray obsession too? We'd all be very grateful.

I suppose when you're that much in the grip of a crush, it's hard to be objective. He should ask Murray about his own crush formed attending Uzbek "strip" joints while putatively representing the UK as ambassador.

Almost three years have passed since Her Majesty's Ambassador to Uzbekistan found Nadira Alieva bellydancing in a Tashkent nightclub, slipped $20 down the back of her embroidered knickers and gave her his number.

That scandalous affair left Craig Murray's 20-year marriage - and his high-flying diplomatic career - in tatters. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-504117/The-squalid-truth-Our-Man-Uzbekistan-belly-dancer-lover.html

[kirku 1,334]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

So you joined a football forum full of Norwich City fans to talk about...Craig Murray? Could you not talk to them about your Craig Murray obsession too? We'd all be very grateful.

Ever the self publicist it seems...

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Surely not Russian nerve agents? Don't you mean body building steroids aimed at the international gay market?

And just to bring some sanity to bear on your tripe; they didn't "magically survive", they required very intensive medical intervention. Alas, Dawn Sturgess didn't receive that help in quick enough time. 

utterly unproven ****, shows what you know about B/C weaponry and modern attempts to find new unregulated agents.

[horsefly 4,301]

12 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

utterly unproven ****, shows what you know about B/C weaponry and modern attempts to find new unregulated agents.

Idiot!

[1902 1,167]

On 15/06/2022 at 13:17, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

I am a City fan and don't need to post on football as I talk to other City fans.

 

It is not just my opinion but that of many in the FO, make of that what you want.

I idolise no regime, but go by what they say and whether we are engaging diplomatically with it. If you have any evidence of the % eyes engaging with Russia and European countries to work out a long term European security agreement, please be so kind and post a link to it here. I'm not in favor of using Eutope as the next warzone for US arms concerns, however much fuel some here might want to throw on the fire. The need for a comprehensive European security agreement is not going to go away and its time to engage, not give arms to dubious coup plotters, and self serving presidents.

I am in favour of real proportional electoral systems and countries that use it. Looking at what is governing us at present, I could envisage pulling our MP's out of a random computer list of constituency NI numbers and empower them for 4 years, with no right to re election. At the next election one could switch the gender by just choosing from the female/male NI numbers and one four year term will cut the cozyness/corruption that can develop within power systems. We are supporting a president who is a comedian at heart, scared of not doing as Biden/Nuland tell him, so why should we not select a random butcher/cleaner/or seamstress as our representatives? the idea that political parties have the god given right to rule the country has resulted in the current systemic problems, real change will be inevitable.

My only desperation is for sustainable practices and policies, i.e. the greatest threat to all of us and a reason to come together globally, rather than live of creating wars.

Thanks for calling me a crank, that's what they said of many people who have changed society, from Suffragettes to inventors and or writers such as  Richard Dawkins. I am not supporting Putins war, I'm opposed and appalled by the longterm US plan working to get at Russia, which chimes with the UK's very own long term  animosities.

 

 

Try not to compare yourself to the suffragettes mate, you will only disappoint yourself. Let's be honest, you will not be changing the world anytime soon given that you struggle to influence a football forum.

"I am not supporting Putins war, I'm opposed and appalled by the longterm US plan working to get at Russia, which chimes with the UK's very own long term  animosities". Ah yes, the big bad USA made Putin do it. That old chestnut.

Nothing to do with Putin's animosity to Ukraine and his belief that they are in fact just a Russian people who need to be brought back into the fold then? You know, like he wrote and published before this war.

Thanks for the long ramble about the nature of democracy. It was very uninspiring. Also "real change will be inevitable" is not much of a prediction given the state of the economy, the environment and the nature of technological progress, it's inherently tautological.

Also, no joke. You tout Craig Murrays stuff all the time, your biographies are strikingly similar. I'm beginning to subscribe to the "you are Craig Murray" theory. Honestly I'd respect you more if it turned out to be correct.

Edited June 16, 2022 by 1902

[horsefly 4,301]

On 15/06/2022 at 12:17, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

. I am not supporting Putins war,

Except that is exactly what you have done throughout this thread, even to the extent of using Putin's own casus belli that all Ukrainians are Naz*is. You do realise it is possible to object to both the US and Russian regimes don't you? Absolutely nothing the US has done justifies Russia's brutal invasion of the Ukraine.

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Except that is exactly what you have done throughout this thread, even to the extent of using Putin's own casus belli that all Ukrainians are Naz*is. You do realise it is possible to object to both the US and Russian regimes don't you? Absolutely nothing the US has done justifies Russia's brutal invasion of the Ukraine.

Also, it's apparently Ukraine's fault that they can't export grain because of mines. Not the person threatening an amphibious assault. 

It's a long and stupid exercise in whatabouttery and false moral equivalence with our Craig/our Craig's lackey.

[kirku 1,334]

5 hours ago, 1902 said:

Also, it's apparently Ukraine's fault that they can't export grain because of mines. Not the person threatening an amphibious assault. 

It's a long and stupid exercise in whatabouttery and false moral equivalence with our Craig/our Craig's lackey.

We're not interested in your layman's conclusions. The only person we can trust on this is one of the greatest minds of his generation.

Craig, where you at?

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

We're not interested in your layman's conclusions. The only person we can trust on this is one of the greatest minds of his generation.

Craig, where you at?

Polymath, lover..... defender of misunderstood gay bodybuilders, Craig Murray.

[kirku 1,334]

14 hours ago, 1902 said:

Polymath, lover..... defender of misunderstood gay bodybuilders, Craig Murray.

You missed out "visionary"

[1902 1,167]

20 minutes ago, kirku said:

You missed out "visionary"

Apologies Kirku, sometimes I get blinded by his achievements 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

21 hours ago, horsefly said:

Except that is exactly what you have done throughout this thread, even to the extent of using Putin's own casus belli that all Ukrainians are Naz*is. You do realise it is possible to object to both the US and Russian regimes don't you? Absolutely nothing the US has done justifies Russia's brutal invasion of the Ukraine.

denazifying a Nazi Government and its Asov Khazars does not mean that all of Ukraine citizens are Naz*s.

You can't even link to the BBC's multiple documentaries taken in 2013/2018/2019 anymore, it is 'verboten'.

But here is a direct link to the declassified CIA papers, educate yourself

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC%20%20%20VOL.%201_0004.pdf

As for your second sentence, it is factually incorrect as theUS has planned to undermine Russian security by creeping up through eastern Europe for over 20 years. You are just not very bright as to remember, or you are the McCarthist who seeks our reds under the bed.

And just in case you did not get Biden in 1997, or covid has left you a little empty upstairs, here he is again. Facts dear boy facts

https://twitter.com/ImReadinHere/status/1500782351831662592

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

22 hours ago, 1902 said:

Try not to compare yourself to the suffragettes mate, you will only disappoint yourself. Let's be honest, you will not be changing the world anytime soon given that you struggle to influence a football forum.

"I am not supporting Putins war, I'm opposed and appalled by the longterm US plan working to get at Russia, which chimes with the UK's very own long term  animosities". Ah yes, the big bad USA made Putin do it. That old chestnut.

Nothing to do with Putin's animosity to Ukraine and his belief that they are in fact just a Russian people who need to be brought back into the fold then? You know, like he wrote and published before this war.

Thanks for the long ramble about the nature of democracy. It was very uninspiring. Also "real change will be inevitable" is not much of a prediction given the state of the economy, the environment and the nature of technological progress, it's inherently tautological.

Also, no joke. You tout Craig Murrays stuff all the time, your biographies are strikingly similar. I'm beginning to subscribe to the "you are Craig Murray" theory. Honestly I'd respect you more if it turned out to be correct.

Nice joke thanks, 1902, you missed out 'under the Conservatives', after 'state of the economy '. You are obviously so well educated that you can twist words and find another meaning, well done three gold stars to you. I feel honored that you think my writing is similar to Craigs, he is miles better than me at using words. I shall see Craig and family next month for a few days, he will enjoy a good laugh.

[Mr Angry 1,563]

We have a Ukrainian woman living with us now. She is worried about her husband who is still in Kharkiv. Her brother is in the Ukrainian army and rang her on Wednesday to say that the Russians are very close-she thinks he was probably ringing her because he fears that he will be dead soon.

This simply should not be happening.