Newport County to investigate why teams did not take knee before Tranmere game

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Just now, horsefly said:

Haha! indeed! I did try to make it easier by suggesting a chronological order to the two activities but I suspect it will still be too much of a struggle.

Its not as if you are asking him to multitask is it.  I doubt if he's made the connection between diet and obesity yet, despite all the friendly reminders he has been given . You just cant help some people.

[horsefly 4,300]

Just now, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t see the need to bring in people’s sexual orientation or politics into the game  and how it enhances it what so ever, call me an old gammon but I enjoy my match day experience as it is, sorry if that is not woke enough for you 

You're the buffoon who brought sexual orientation into the debate "burly straight men" is your quote. FFS

[horsefly 4,300]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm assuming you're newish here- there is no point taking Uncle Fred seriously. He's a wind up merchant/troll who for some reason is allowed to keep clogging up this forum.

Thanks for the tip-off KC. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm assuming you're newish here- there is no point taking Uncle Fred seriously. He's a wind up merchant/troll who for some reason is allowed to keep clogging up this forum.

Agree that taking him seriously would be a mistake, just as I dont let a bit of dogshoite on my shoe spoil my day. I just realise it is the product of a relatively unintelligent animal who has little or nothing in common with humanity, smile to myself , curse the mangy mutt and move on. 

[horsefly 4,300]

3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Its not as if you are asking him to multitask is it.  I doubt if he's made the connection between diet and obesity yet, despite all the friendly reminders he has been given . You just cant help some people.

How very true, but there is some pleasure in rubbing their noses in the bullsh*t they evacuate from their bowels.

[NFN FC 1,123]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t see the need to bring in people’s sexual orientation or politics into the game  and how it enhances it what so ever, call me an old gammon but I enjoy my match day experience as it is, sorry if that is not woke enough for you 

Well as the game involves humans, sexuality is already there and it's obviously an issue that needs to be addressed. There must be hundreds of professionals that can't live out in the open. The attitudes regarding this need to change. 

I agree that politics shouldn't be part of the game. However, racism isn't politics. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

In the aftermath of the shooting in the US taking the knee was a visible gesture of solidarity. Other than that it makes no difference to the on-going issues in the States and has become a meaningless virtue signalling gesture. Given the looney left agenda of the organisation behind BLM a lot of people have been turned off by it.

Personally. If I was a sportsman I would not take the knee now for the reasons above. No one should be accused of racism because they don’t take the knee., 

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, Haus said:

Do you know what this means ?

Of course he doesn't. Right-wingers rarely bother with the details, they just take the catchy slogans and then warp them to fit their deeply entrenched opinions.

Defunding the police is actually an inherently sensible policy. And could be done in a risk-free environment. The principle is to reduce the sums (gargantuan, in the case of the US) we spend on policing and divert those funds to community projects, scholarships and target opportunity packages designed to prevent crime.

Ideally, you would have a government trial this by funding the community and grassroots projects for 12-24 months, without defunding the police and then when crime inevitably drops as a result of it, you then start to reduce the size and budget of the police force to the level required for the reduced crime levels. And for the job losses, police have a pretty unique set of experiences that would be an asset to the crime prevention programs and projects that replace law enforcement as a means of getting people away from crime.

It's not about getting rid of police forces but about changing the way we view "crime prevention" to use a carrot instead of a stick.

[Uncle Fred 526]

3 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Well as the game involves humans, sexuality is already there and it's obviously an issue that needs to be addressed. There must be hundreds of professionals that can't live out in the open. The attitudes regarding this need to change. 

I agree that politics shouldn't be part of the game. However, racism isn't politics. 

BLM is a political movement for change 

[Uncle Fred 526]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Of course he doesn't. Right-wingers rarely bother with the details, they just take the catchy slogans and then warp them to fit their deeply entrenched opinions.

Defunding the police is actually an inherently sensible policy. And could be done in a risk-free environment. The principle is to reduce the sums (gargantuan, in the case of the US) we spend on policing and divert those funds to community projects, scholarships and target opportunity packages designed to prevent crime.

Ideally, you would have a government trial this by funding the community and grassroots projects for 12-24 months, without defunding the police and then when crime inevitably drops as a result of it, you then start to reduce the size and budget of the police force to the level required for the reduced crime levels. And for the job losses, police have a pretty unique set of experiences that would be an asset to the crime prevention programs and projects that replace law enforcement as a means of getting people away from crime.

It's not about getting rid of police forces but about changing the way we view "crime prevention" to use a carrot instead of a stick.

Extremist view of the world and extremely woke 

utter utter madness 

[NFN FC 1,123]

2 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

In the aftermath of the shooting in the US taking the knee was a visible gesture of solidarity. Other than that it makes no difference to the on-going issues in the States and has become a meaningless virtue signalling gesture. Given the looney left agenda of the organisation behind BLM a lot of people have been turned off by it.

Personally. If I was a sportsman I would not take the knee now for the reasons above. No one should be accused of racism because they don’t take the knee., 

It was after a man was suffocated by an officer's knee. 

The taking the knee has become pointless now though. 

[horsefly 4,300]

2 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

In the aftermath of the shooting in the US taking the knee was a visible gesture of solidarity. Other than that it makes no difference to the on-going issues in the States and has become a meaningless virtue signalling gesture. Given the looney left agenda of the organisation behind BLM a lot of people have been turned off by it.

Personally. If I was a sportsman I would not take the knee now for the reasons above. No one should be accused of racism because they don’t take the knee., 

"In the aftermath of the shooting in the US taking the knee was a visible gesture of solidarity. Other than that it makes no difference to the on-going issues in the States"

Jesus Christ! are you really claiming that the issue has now been dealt with? Surely you're not that stupid. The protest continues because the racism continues.

[NFN FC 1,123]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

BLM is a political movement for change 

That's neither here nor there. Opposing racism isn't political

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Extremist view of the world and extremely woke 

utter utter madness 

No u

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

Such a shame to see yet another thread started just to bait and cause division, please do not get sucked into it and be kind to each other.........

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

Anyone watch Detroit last night.? Over 50 years ago and not much has changed. 

[king canary 7,606]

18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Of course he doesn't. Right-wingers rarely bother with the details, they just take the catchy slogans and then warp them to fit their deeply entrenched opinions.

Defunding the police is actually an inherently sensible policy. And could be done in a risk-free environment. The principle is to reduce the sums (gargantuan, in the case of the US) we spend on policing and divert those funds to community projects, scholarships and target opportunity packages designed to prevent crime.

Ideally, you would have a government trial this by funding the community and grassroots projects for 12-24 months, without defunding the police and then when crime inevitably drops as a result of it, you then start to reduce the size and budget of the police force to the level required for the reduced crime levels. And for the job losses, police have a pretty unique set of experiences that would be an asset to the crime prevention programs and projects that replace law enforcement as a means of getting people away from crime.

It's not about getting rid of police forces but about changing the way we view "crime prevention" to use a carrot instead of a stick.

I think 'defund the police' is a great example of two things...

1) It is a bad slogan that people don't understand and is easily twisted. If you have to write paragraphs explaining why 'defund the police' doesn't actually mean what it sounds like then a better slogan is needed.

2) the problem of lifting issues directly from the US to the UK. US police spending is insane and some of the equipment they have is military grade- there was a news story a little while ago about a rural, small town US police force ending up with a military armoured humvee in a town with basically zero crime. Too many American police are deeply undertrained but expected to act like Navy Seals. However, in the UK, the police are already somewhat underfunded and the same issues behind the 'defund the police' movement in the US don't really exist here. Not saying there aren't issues but different places need different solutions and the wholesale lifting of American slogans into UK discourse is at best meaningless and and worst actively unhelpful. For example, there is something bizarre about watching protestors chanting 'hands up don't shoot' at UK police who don't have guns and fatally shot a total of 3 people in 2019.

Edited October 19, 2020 by king canary

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think 'defund the police' is a great example of two things...

1) It is a bad slogan that people don't understand and is easily twisted. If you have to write paragraphs explaining why 'defund the police' doesn't actually mean what it sounds like then a better slogan is needed.

2) the problem of lifting issues directly from the US to the UK. US police spending is insane and some of the equipment they have is military grade- there was a news story a little while ago about a rural, small town US police force ending up with a military armoured humvee in a town with basically zero crime. Too many American police are deeply undertrained but expected to act like Navy Seals. However, in the UK, the police are already somewhat underfunded and the same issues behind the 'defund the police' movement in the US don't really exist here. Not saying there aren't issues but different places need different solutions and the wholesale lifting of American slogans into UK discourse is at best meaningless and and worst actively unhelpful. For example, there is something bizarre about watching protestors chanting 'hands up don't shoot' at UK police who don't have guns and fatally shot a total of 3 people in 2019.

Agree with point 2 but I think you've missed the point regarding the first topic.

People have been making this argument for decades and decades but it never makes any traction and is filed away by the decision-makers as easily ignored. However, make the slogan catchy and controversial and it attracts reaction, even if a lot of that is ignorant and negative. What it does is get the conversation going and I can guarantee you that more people are now aware of the motivation behind the idea.

The people who hear it and cry into their four-sugared cups of tea about what a bad, woke idea it is will never be convinced of its merits anyway, so you're not losing anything by their pathetic overreaction. But what you do get is people hearing Sean Hannity or Richard Littlejohn scweam and scweam and sweam until they're sick about the policy and looking into it and thinking, "You know what, there is actually some merit in that idea".

It's designed to attract attention and in the modern, social media driven world the most effective way to achieve that aim is by courting controversy.

Edited October 19, 2020 by canarydan23

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think 'defund the police' is a great example of two things...

1) It is a bad slogan that people don't understand and is easily twisted. If you have to write paragraphs explaining why 'defund the police' doesn't actually mean what it sounds like then a better slogan is needed.

2) the problem of lifting issues directly from the US to the UK. US police spending is insane and some of the equipment they have is military grade- there was a news story a little while ago about a rural, small town US police force ending up with a military armoured humvee in a town with basically zero crime. Too many American police are deeply undertrained but expected to act like Navy Seals. However, in the UK, the police are already somewhat underfunded and the same issues behind the 'defund the police' movement in the US don't really exist here. Not saying there aren't issues but different places need different solutions and the wholesale lifting of American slogans into UK discourse is at best meaningless and and worst actively unhelpful. For example, there is something bizarre about watching protestors chanting 'hands up don't shoot' at UK police who don't have guns and fatally shot a total of 3 people in 2019.

Agree 100% Kaceyo , the nuances of sloganism are lost on many, mainly reactionary types who do not look further than the soundbite. 

Anyone else noticed that Pep guardiola never actually takes the knee, he just squats as if he's having an al fresco shoite in the woods.....i attach no importance to this observation.

[horsefly 4,300]

18 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Such a shame to see yet another thread started just to bait and cause division, please do not get sucked into it and be kind to each other.........

I appreciate your sentiment Faded, but nonetheless do think a robust debate about these sort of issues is important. The history of football regarding racism is a very unpleasant one. It is an issue that has to be addressed if BAME players are to be allowed to compete on equal terms with white players. 

What shocks me is the number of individuals here who get so angered by the action of footballers taking the knee to show solidarity with their black teammates in the cause of racial equality. What possible harm does this do to anyone? As for those (few) players who object to taking the knee, they at least owe their fellow professionals an explanation why they refuse to participate in such a simple and short expression of racial equality. 

If I was to whistle through the two-minute silence at the Cenotaph I think people would rightly be critical of my behaviour, and I don't think protesting my freedom to ignore the traditional conventions would hold any sway. Likewise, I think while BAME footballers wish to continue taking the knee it is not too much to ask other players to respect that convention. Indeed most footballers are clearly happy to do so.

[Uncle Fred 526]

45 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Such a shame to see yet another thread started just to bait and cause division, please do not get sucked into it and be kind to each other.........

I agree the intolerance that some people show who have differing views to them is so very modern, so very woke 

[NFN FC 1,123]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I agree the intolerance that some people show who have differing views to them is so very modern, so very woke 

Yeah intolerance to racism is so wack! 🙄

[horsefly 4,300]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I agree the intolerance that some people show who have differing views to them is so very modern, so very woke 

To engage in argument is not to show intollerance; to express racist, sexist, and homophobic views is.

And by-the-way, to throw around the word "woke" doesn't constitute an argument. Do at least try to come up with something that resembles a reasoned position. 

[Uncle Fred 526]

3 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Yeah intolerance to racism is so wack! 🙄

I just want to go to the football to watch a game of football by all Means woke me In every other part of my life but let’s keep football just about the sport 

[king canary 7,606]

41 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Agree with point 2 but I think you've missed the point regarding the first topic.

People have been making this argument for decades and decades but it never makes any traction and is filed away by the decision-makers as easily ignored. However, make the slogan catchy and controversial and it attracts reaction, even if a lot of that is ignorant and negative. What it does is get the conversation going and I can guarantee you that more people are now aware of the motivation behind the idea.

The people who hear it and cry into their four-sugared cups of tea about what a bad, woke idea it is will never be convinced of its merits anyway, so you're not losing anything by their pathetic overreaction. But what you do get is people hearing Sean Hannity or Richard Littlejohn scweam and scweam and sweam until they're sick about the policy and looking into it and thinking, "You know what, there is actually some merit in that idea".

It's designed to attract attention and in the modern, social media driven world the most effective way to achieve that aim is by courting controversy.

I don't disagree that having a slogan is a good idea and helps stimulate conversation- I just think 'defund the police' is a poor example and often a bit of a gift horse for the opposition. All it does is help the right paint the left as being radicals who want to get rid of the police and let criminality run wild and the main conversation it stimulates is 'why the **** would you want to get rid of the police?'

Polling shows support for defunding is actually very low and many people who may be sympathetic to other related causes like BLM find it a huge turn off and generally think it means something close to 'abolish the police.' There is a reason a sensible, moderate campaign like Biden's has steered clear of any involvement but Trump keeps trying to tie him to it. Tell most average voters (even those who lean left) you want to defund the police and you'll lose them.

[NFN FC 1,123]

Just now, Uncle Fred said:

I just want to go to the football to watch a game of football by all Means woke me In every other part of my life but let’s keep football just about the sport 

And nothing is stopping you from that (except a global pandemic) 

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

There is a reason a sensible, moderate campaign like Biden's

I'm not sure any campaign that endorses 8 year old children being permitted to take life-altering medication because at that moment in their life they feel as though they may be a different **** to what they actually are can ever truly count itself as "sensible" but I take your point.

[king canary 7,606]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

I'm not sure any campaign that endorses 8 year old children being permitted to take life-altering medication because at that moment in their life they feel as though they may be a different **** to what they actually are can ever truly count itself as "sensible" but I take your point.

I'd suggest that is more of a niche issue but I also know what you mean. You won't get 100% sensible though.

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, king canary said:

I'd suggest that is more of a niche issue but I also know what you mean. You won't get 100% sensible though.

Something that negatively impacts 51% of the population isn't something I'd describe as niche but it's probably not a rabbit hole to dive down and certainly not on the PinkUn message board.

[horsefly 4,300]

11 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I just want to go to the football to watch a game of football by all Means woke me In every other part of my life but let’s keep football just about the sport 

Utterly naive! The point is that it's the actual players themselves who are engaging in the protest. It is them who are saying you can't ignore moral and political issues that are clearly relevant to their participation in football on equal terms with each other. Or would you rather force to them to behave like slaves?