Corona Virus main thread

[Barbe bleu 837]

27 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Absolutely, but if they're saying that kids should be in school despite a national lockdown, and that it's "safe" even though the science says it's not even close to safe. Then they should be providing support (not just financial btw) to help us make it as safe as possible. At the moment, if I'm honest, it's not safe for students, and it's not safe for staff. It's only going to get worse too.

A good education is highly important so the risk must be very high for the balance to be tipped in favour of closure. 

Thankfully children are not particularly at risk and teachers are by definition of working age and fit for work and therefore in lower risk categories.  Sure there are exceptions but I am content that this is the right approach, for now at least. 

[Well b back 3,324]

So has Gove made his first move on Boris ?

’ We would always follow the scientific advice ‘

’ The lockdown could extend beyond 2nd December ‘

 

[kick it off 1,962]

31 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

A good education is highly important so the risk must be very high for the balance to be tipped in favour of closure. 

Thankfully children are not particularly at risk and teachers are by definition of working age and fit for work and therefore in lower risk categories.  Sure there are exceptions but I am content that this is the right approach, for now at least. 

The teachers of working age is a debateable point. There are infinite reasons why teachers may be high risk categories that would not impede their suitability for work in normal circumstances - asthma, diabetes, pregnancy, over 60 etc.

I would far rather be teaching in school than teaching online, and don't want to see schools shut but they need to make schools safe instead of pretending they are and ploughing ahead as normal. Masks for example, need to be mandatory at all times (currently in my school, following the guidance from DFE is masks are only mandatory during transition times and do not need to be worn in lessons) - this is what independent sage have been advocating since the beginning. As aforementioned, the kids are not vulnerable but many parents are, and believe it or not, teachers are not magically immune as you seem to think.

Not a cat in hell's chance that the exam period will go ahead next year. The govt refusing to accept that is so stupid. How can you possibly say it's a level playing field when some kids have had to isolate multiple times due to outbreaks in their year groups, teachers may be isolating several times during the year meaning their lessons are taught by non-specialists or supply (We had to send nearly 25% of staff home in the last week of term to isolate due to several students testing positive).

How do you keep schools safe when there are no staff as they're all having to isolate at home?

There's a myriad of issues with keeping schools open, which is why support is required. If the government continues to do nothing to support school safety then a full shutdown will be inevitable, and it will be for longer than running concurrently with the month long lockdown.

Edited November 1, 2020 by kick it off

[Bagster 101]

Lord Jonathan Sumption trying to wake people up

https://www.leegarrett-thetruth.com/post/britain-is-turning-into-a-totalitarian-police-state-warns-top-lawyer-lord-sumption

[Yellow Fever 3,858]

I fear Johnson may have left it too late not to shut at least the secondary schools - it will be touch and go if the numbers drop and schools remain viable with increasing staff and pupil quarantine.

I suspect it will be watched and reviewed very closely.

Ought to add I want them to remain open but needs must.

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[Bagster 101]

This is London, it's dead, why bother locking it down

Depression incoming

 

[Well b back 3,324]

7 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Lord Jonathan Sumption trying to wake people up

https://www.leegarrett-thetruth.com/post/britain-is-turning-into-a-totalitarian-police-state-warns-top-lawyer-lord-sumption

Maybe you could apply for the job of the person that decides who lives and who dies, a job I hope there is never a vacancy for. I appreciate that Boris could well of lied about that but I see no reason why he would have. Maybe it’s just my circle of friends but away from this board the reasons are widely accepted, to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and lives saved of cancer, heart and mental health patients, whilst trying to keep schools open. 
Although I voted for Boris I no longer have anytime for him but I thought he brought that across very well.

One final point and it is my opinion he did what some wanted and did nothing, that was what you asked for, it seems it didn’t work, unless of course our doctors and nurses and hospital administrators are liars as well as having a jolly during the last lockdown. According to Jools though you will all be ok in Norfolk as there are far less ‘ ethnics ‘ in Norfolk.

[Bagster 101]

This is new York, it's dead

 

[Well b back 3,324]

Just now, Bagster said:

This is new York, it's dead

 

So Londoners and New Yorkers have made their own minds up, thanks for pointing that out we are not locked down yet. Seems to indicate most agree.

 

[Bagster 101]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Maybe you could apply for the job of the person that decides who lives and who dies, a job I hope there is never a vacancy for. I appreciate that Boris could well of lied about that but I see no reason why he would have. Maybe it’s just my circle of friends but away from this board the reasons are widely accepted, to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and lives saved of cancer, heart and mental health patients, whilst trying to keep schools open. 
Although I voted for Boris I no longer have anytime for him but I thought he brought that across very well.

One final point and it is my opinion he did what some wanted and did nothing, that was what you asked for, it seems it didn’t work, unless of course our doctors and nurses and hospital administrators are liars as well as having a jolly during the last lockdown. According to Jools though you will all be ok in Norfolk as there are far less ‘ ethnics ‘ in Norfolk.

Maybe if you did some actual research you would know what you are talking about.

1600 people die every day in Britain, the locks will kill far more than this mild pandemic ( that's the WHO who described it as that, not me)

The WHO also said NO LOCKDOWN , so maybe you should bring it up with them.

Average lifespan in UK is 81

Average age of death from covid 19 is 82

Overall death rate 0.23%

Death rate under 70 is 0.05%

 

[Bagster 101]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

So Londoners and New Yorkers have made their own minds up, thanks for pointing that out we are not locked down yet. Seems to indicate most agree.

 

You don't quite understand how economics work , do you 

[Well b back 3,324]

2 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Maybe if you did some actual research you would know what you are talking about.

1600 people die every day in Britain, the locks will kill far more than this mild pandemic ( that's the WHO who described it as that, not me)

The WHO also said NO LOCKDOWN , so maybe you should bring it up with them.

Average lifespan in UK is 81

Average age of death from covid 19 is 82

Overall death rate 0.23%

Death rate under 70 is 0.05%

 

I don’t dispute any figures all up for debate.

If it’s mild ( I believe their quoted figure was 10 x worse than flu ), why are our hospitals saying they would be full in 3 weeks. If they are lieing fair enough but please show us as I for one would love to have it proved that this is not a serious illness.

 

 

[Bagster 101]

It's not just about economics and excess deaths that are not Corona virus related

It's the laws that are being passed , that are not being properly challenged

 

[Bagster 101]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

I don’t dispute any figures all up for debate.

If it’s mild ( I believe their quoted figure was 10 x worse than flu ), why are our hospitals saying they would be full in 3 weeks. If they are lieing fair enough but please show us as I for one would love to have it proved that this is not a serious illness.

 

 

That is nonsense once again, professor Neil Ferguson said the death rate would be 0.9% , which would've been 10 times worse than seasonal flu.

Seasonal flu is 0.1%

In 2018 seasonal flu was 0.20%

No lockdown and you didn't even know

Actually watch some videos I post.... please , then if you disagree , fair enough.

[Well b back 3,324]

9 minutes ago, Bagster said:

You don't quite understand how economics work , do you 

Ha Ha, would you like to put that theory to the test.

 

[Bagster 101]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Ha Ha, would you like to put that theory to the test.

 

Ok I will

Watch this video and then tell me what you think the outlook is for the global economy.

Then give me your predictions of how many people will die because of that

 

[Well b back 3,324]

This is from the WHO where they agree with the figure for flu is 0.1% but seem to think Covid will come out at 3-4%

Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care. 

 

 

What medical interventions are available for COVID-19 and influenza viruses?

 

While there are a number of therapeutics currently in clinical trials in China and more than 20 vaccines in development for COVID-19, there are currently no licensed vaccines or therapeutics for COVID-19.  In contrast, antivirals and vaccines available for influenza. While the influenza vaccine is not effective against COVID-19 virus, it is highly recommended to get vaccinated each year to prevent influenza infection. 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

I found this article today a very concerning and interesting read

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8882273/Former-judge-brands-coronavirus-curbs-tyrannical.html

[Well b back 3,324]

And probably the most telling bit from WHO is the fact that 20% of everyone that gets it will have a severe infection. Glad you made me look at that as that explains the question as to why our hospitals are getting swamped. Again I will be really happy to hear that their information is not correct, but it does dispute what you have said the WHO have said.

While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

[Herman 9,868]

11 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

I found this article today a very concerning and interesting read

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8882273/Former-judge-brands-coronavirus-curbs-tyrannical.html

I get the feeling that are quite a few from the Brexit thread ironing their "We told you so!" T-shirts.

[Bagster 101]

36 minutes ago, Well b back said:

And probably the most telling bit from WHO is the fact that 20% of everyone that gets it will have a severe infection. Glad you made me look at that as that explains the question as to why our hospitals are getting swamped. Again I will be really happy to hear that their information is not correct, but it does dispute what you have said the WHO have said.

While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

20% of those who get it, but that is not 20% of the population, much of the population has T cell immunity from previous Corona viruses

Anyway it's a good start that you're actually reading something, keep going you might actually learn something

Also I am not saying it's a pleasant disease, my brother had it for 3 weeks and then took him two months to get over it. 

I am saying the figures are telling you it's not deadly enough to kill the economy and lockdown people which is causing a steep rise of suicide, mental health issues, untreated cancers ect ect ect

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Bagster
Spelling

[Bagster 101]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

I get the feeling that are quite a few from the Brexit thread ironing their "We told you so!" T-shirts.

That doesn't quite explain the global nature of it though, does it.

Similar happening everywhere

[Bagster 101]

It also doesn't explain why labour as the opposition are failing to oppose it.

It also makes you wonder

Where the hell are our media!

[Bagster 101]

How many of you think that our police should have the right to legally murder someone?

[Herman 9,868]

4 minutes ago, Bagster said:

It also doesn't explain why labour as the opposition are failing to oppose it.

It also makes you wonder

Where the hell are our media!

The same place they have been for decades. 

[Bagster 101]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

The same place they have been for decades. 

Are you ok with the police being legally allowed to commit murder ?

 

[Herman 9,868]

Nobody is. Why do you keep mentioning it? 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

 

[Well b back 3,324]

Just now, Bagster said:

20% of those who get it, but that is not 20% of the population, much of the population has T cell immunity from previous Corona viruses

Anyway it's a good start that your actually reading something, keep going you might actually learn something

 

Reading something lol

I think those who know me will tell you about my readings of the vaccine.

You are comparing it to Flu, so that 0.1% is only the people who catch it. Only my view though if there are only ( bad wording but you know what I mean ) 22,000 positives a day, that means in a week and a halves time there will be trooping off to hospital 4,400 people per day of which 1,100 will require critical care. Again as I understand it in the U.K. that was not happening as it hadn’t entered the older age groups ( over 50’s not 80’s ). The game changer as I again understand it is 2 fold the infections spreading to the older age group and the thoughts that the numbers are not 22,000 but in excess of 50,000.
Of course in 2 months time you will be saying nowhere the number died or indeed had the virus and we will then have the same discussions some will say the science was wrong others will say but it would have been had we not taken action.

We need a treatment that cuts those infected having to go to hospital down to the same levels as flu, or a vaccine taken by the over 50’s that again will keep the numbers down, but won’t protect everyone, then yes it will be just like flu, unless it mutates considerably, but that is for you conspiracy theorists as that seems unlikely due to the speed Coronavirus works.

The WHO have brought out some very interesting economic figures that say worldwide the hit to the economy is lots of trillions of dollars, yet had the world acted to prevent, one of the main ones stopping the trading of wild animals for consumption, it would only have cost several hundred million dollars. The world wasn’t interested in that though.

[Well b back 3,324]

2 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

 

I really want to believe that Boris lied yesterday but I have seen no evidence yet.

Any chance you could put the figures up from Brazil who did it your way ? I seriously would be fascinated to see if their cancer deaths and heart deaths were protected, then we would have some comparisons to go on.

Yesterday we were told it was spread by the ‘ Ethnics ‘ would love to see the evidence for that as well.