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pete

A club without ambition

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10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

yes and all the time we refuse to consider such form of ownership we will get left behind.

Do you know that to be true? Is anyone privvy to who has asked to take us over apart from Peter Cullum?

When you say such form, you mean an outfit that has pumped endless money into PSG. Why have they chosen Leeds over us? It isn't difficult to work out is it.

I think it is fair to say the messaging from the owners about the availability of the club has been at best mixed at worst actively contradictory.

The PR line is 'always open to new investment' but at the same point, we've had interviews saying it is definitely going to be passed on to TS and MWJ saying he didn't want to sell to foreigners at the AGM. 

Obviously we don't know what happens behind the scenes but for me, from the outside, we don't sound hugely open to a sale.

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1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Axa were very happy with the arrangement from memory . I think (not 100%) the debt was structured on 5% fixed interest which made it an incredibly good performer in the Axa portfolio - and ultimately (though never necessary) linked to an asset worth a multiple of the debt . I was always realise surprised when Axa triggered the Promotion repayment , if indeed they did or whether NCFC decided to pay it off. 

GPB, going by the accounts I assume this was a condition imposed by Axa,  or certainly agreed by them, although strangely it was not mentioned in the previous set of accounts when the restructuring was first outlined, with 2022 as the assumed date.

I cannot say for sure, but generally, after a period in which investors/lenders etc had been keen to get into football, by then this was a time when they wanted the h*ll out.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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46 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think it is fair to say the messaging from the owners about the availability of the club has been at best mixed at worst actively contradictory.

The PR line is 'always open to new investment' but at the same point, we've had interviews saying it is definitely going to be passed on to TS and MWJ saying he didn't want to sell to foreigners at the AGM. 

Obviously we don't know what happens behind the scenes but for me, from the outside, we don't sound hugely open to a sale.

If someone like Qatar Sports Investment wanted to purchase us and were blocked by Delia and co - they'd just go to the media and easily achieve what they wanted with fan pressure.

So my assumption is they had no interest. Leeds are traditionally much bigger than us with a bigger fanbase who have significantly underperformed for years. They are a great option for an investor. We're already competing at the "right" or maybe "slightly higher" level for our size of club and have no debt, are well ran with multiple multi-million assets. We're not typically the sort of club that gets interest from these sorts of companies.

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B

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

P.S Why aren't we leeds

Maybe because whippets aren't allowed inside Carrow Road?......

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7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If someone like Qatar Sports Investment wanted to purchase us and were blocked by Delia and co - they'd just go to the media and easily achieve what they wanted with fan pressure.

So my assumption is they had no interest. Leeds are traditionally much bigger than us with a bigger fanbase who have significantly underperformed for years. They are a great option for an investor. We're already competing at the "right" or maybe "slightly higher" level for our size of club and have no debt, are well ran with multiple multi-million assets. We're not typically the sort of club that gets interest from these sorts of companies.

I haven't mentioned Leeds so not sure why we've got a paragraph about Leeds there.

I also don't think your first point is necessarily true. It could be investors are looking to purchase a football club and sound out a few different options- if they get a fairly cool response from us but a more positive one from another club then they are likely to pursue that one rather than engage in a lengthy pressure campaign to try and convince the current owners to move on. Abramovich, for example, was apparently interested in Arsenal, Portsmouth and Man United before settling on Chelsea. 

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

I haven't mentioned Leeds so not sure why we've got a paragraph about Leeds there.

I also don't think your first point is necessarily true. It could be investors are looking to purchase a football club and sound out a few different options- if they get a fairly cool response from us but a more positive one from another club then they are likely to pursue that one rather than engage in a lengthy pressure campaign to try and convince the current owners to move on. Abramovich, for example, was apparently interested in Arsenal, Portsmouth and Man United before settling on Chelsea. 

Because I was addressing a general point people were making about Leeds at the same time as responding to you.

Of course you could be correct but if they get a 'fairly cool' response from us and immediately move onto someone who's more desperate for investment then i'm not sure, personally, i'm particularly bothered about them owning our club.

Again, the general rule of thumb in recent football acquisitions has been people buying underperforming clubs. Not over-performing one's. 

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48 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Because I was addressing a general point people were making about Leeds at the same time as responding to you.

Of course you could be correct but if they get a 'fairly cool' response from us and immediately move onto someone who's more desperate for investment then i'm not sure, personally, i'm particularly bothered about them owning our club.

Again, the general rule of thumb in recent football acquisitions has been people buying underperforming clubs. Not over-performing one's. 

Yes although that's mainly because where clubs are performing well their owners want a considerable sum to sell them. Indeed if you read the stories about Leeds it suggests their owner is looking for a decent profit on top of the £38m he paid for the club and they are not yet in the premier league. 

If our owners were to stand by their statements about not expecting to ever make a profit from the club then our club "could" be available, debt free and in the premier league for a relative pittance to the right owner.

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I think we would all have some serious doubts about the current owners if they had turned away QSI. For me, I cannot believe they would as if it ever was made public then those of us who believe in them still would be in a real pickle and probably defenseless.

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Indeed if you read the stories about Leeds it suggests their owner is looking for a decent profit on top of the £38m he paid for the club.....

It was actually £45m Jim (1st instalment of £20m followed by £25m). He then bought the ground back for a further £20m so a total cost of £65m.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/radrizzani-paid-aps45m-buy-leeds-united-cellino-342465

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3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Yes although that's mainly because where clubs are performing well their owners want a considerable sum to sell them. Indeed if you read the stories about Leeds it suggests their owner is looking for a decent profit on top of the £38m he paid for the club and they are not yet in the premier league. 

If our owners were to stand by their statements about not expecting to ever make a profit from the club then our club "could" be available, debt free and in the premier league for a relative pittance to the right owner.

Jim, they can only sell their shares in the club, they can't automatically sell mine. If any new owner reaches 75 percent of the clubs shares they are then forced to make an offer to all other shareholders. 

I can't remember how many shares they own now, but think it's just over half a club they can sell.. (a controlling stake). 

"Not expecting" to make a profit isn't a commitment to not make a profit.

But even if it was, they could get around that by selling to Tom Smith for £1. He could then sell to whoever he wants, which he probably will because why wouldn't he want to become rich enough to never have to work again. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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23 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He could then sell to whoever he wants, which he probably will because why wouldn't he want to become rich enough to never have to work again

Wish I was computer literate  enough to highlight the words 'probably ' and   ' rich enough  to never work again '.... so you'll have to make do with quotation Mark's.

You have no evidence that he'll  'probably'  sell,.

Delia and Michael  could  have sold out and been' rich enough  never to work again'. So theres two people who wouldn't for starters. 

Some of your arguments  hold water, but claims like these are a bit daft.

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56 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

But even if it was, they could get around that by selling to Tom Smith for £1. He could then sell to whoever he wants, which he probably will because why wouldn't he want to become rich enough to never have to work again. 

Convincing HMRC that £1 was a fair and reasonable price for a club that owns so much land is , frankly , cloud cuckoo land . If you are looking at this from an IHT point of view You can’t just sell (aka give away) shares in a business for any price you like . 
 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

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21 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Convincing HMRC that £1 was a fair and reasonable price for a club that owns so much land is , frankly , cloud cuckoo land . If you are looking at this from an IHT point of view You can’t just sell (aka give away) shares in a business for any price you like . 

Inheritance tax would not apply if the price was £0 and they outlived the event by 7 years. 

Is is CGT which would apply to Tom Smith at some point along the line. 

And yes, you can gift shares. 

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51 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Wish I was computer literate  enough to highlight the words 'probably ' and   ' rich enough  to never work again '.... so you'll have to make do with quotation Mark's.

You have no evidence that he'll  'probably'  sell,.

Delia and Michael  could  have sold out and been' rich enough  never to work again'. So theres two people who wouldn't for starters. 

Some of your arguments  hold water, but claims like these are a bit daft.

It is highly likely that Tom Smith would dispose of his shares at some point though isn't it? 

Either by sale or by liquidation. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Inheritance tax would not apply if the price was £0 and they outlived the event by 7 years. 

Is is CGT which would apply to Tom Smith at some point along the line. 

And yes, you can gift shares. 

Thanks for the tax lesson. You mean there is a difference between Capital Gains Tax and IHT? NSS. 
 

If Delia sold the shares for £1 - HMRC would be all over her in a flash. 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It is highly likely that Tom Smith would dispose of his shares at some point though isn't it? 

Either by sale or by liquidation. 

Is that the sound of goalposts  being moved? If you had used the words ' at some point ' in your original post then it would have seemed less contentious.   As for it being ' highly likely '  I have no idea,  you obviously do. For all I,  we, everybody knows,  he may plan to hand them on to his own relatives,  weird eh?.

Truth is, its out of our control and it doesn't  bother me one bit.

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4 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Thanks for the tax lesson. You mean there is a difference between Capital Gains Tax and IHT? NSS. . Either way HMRC wouldn’t let you “sell shares for £1” Which is what you said . 

The crucial difference being that CGT would be paid by Tom Smith at the point at which he disposed of those gifted shares (unless he also gifted them), which could be 10, 20, 50 years down the line. 

Delia could easily transfer Tom Smith the shares today for £0. 

And if Tom Smith wanted to slip her a quid on the sly he could.

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6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Is that the sound of goalposts  being moved? If you had used the words ' at some point ' in your original post then it would have seemed less contentious.   As for it being ' highly likely '  I have no idea,  you obviously do. For all I,  we, everybody knows,  he may plan to hand them on to his own relatives,  weird eh?.

Truth is, its out of our control and it doesn't  bother me one bit.

You quite like the idea of Tom Smith taking control of the club. 

I really fear that idea and think it would be a disaster. 

Could go round in circles on this one couldn't we Corky.... because you could say "you have no idea if it would be a disaster or not", and I could then say "yeah but you have no idea if it would be a success or not".

And we'd both waste loads of time that we could have spent watching a film or reading a chapter of a good book, so lets not bother. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You quite like the idea of Tom Smith taking control of the club. 

I really fear that idea and think it would be a disaster. 

Could go round in circles on this one couldn't we Corky.... because you could say "you have no idea if it would be a disaster or not", and I could then say "yeah but you have no idea if it would be a success or not".

And we'd both waste loads of time that we could have spent watching a film or reading a chapter of a good book, so lets not bother. 

AWWW .....Don't stop.....It's fun!.....

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10 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You quite like the idea of Tom Smith taking control of the club. 

I really fear that idea and think it would be a disaster. 

Could go round in circles on this one couldn't we Corky.... because you could say "you have no idea if it would be a disaster or not", and I could then say "yeah but you have no idea if it would be a success or not".

And we'd both waste loads of time that we could have spent watching a film or reading a chapter of a good book, so lets not bother. 

At last. Cheers

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