for the attention of dicky et al...

[Tom Blazak<P><IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR>Tom Blazak<P><P>Ronaldinho - The Huckerby Of The Nou Camp<P> 0]

just voted in pinkun poll - 87% want worthington out and think his time is up.....so how do you defend that now? because it isnt the tiny litttle minority you''d have us all think that want worthy out - its 87% of pinkun web readers - thats pretty comprehensive!

[We need a Manager 0]

Delia has just backed him on the official site , god help us.

[Herb 0]

Stop posting messages aimed at one person. Thats tantamount to harassment and very cheap/lazy.
If you could be bothered to read through some of his posts you''ll find Dicky''s feelings on the subject.

[Dicky 0]

[quote]just voted in pinkun poll - 87% want worthington out and think his time is up.....so how do you defend that now? because it isnt the tiny litttle minority you''d have us all think that want worthy out ...[/quote]

Yawn - OK the majority WHO VOTED want Worthy out.  So what?  Am I not entitled to believe in what I believe in? 

I''m with Delia and Michael on this one.  Stick together in bad times.  Loyalty - you should try it some time.

[TwoSheds 0]

But how many pink-un readers are there? I thought the poll only attracted around 3000 people of which around 250 odd wanted to keep worthy in. I say WORTHY OUT!

[Branston Pickle 4,169]

Oh well then.....though I hadn''t realised that there were only 2000 Norwich supporters in the world. 

Why should it be even vaguely assumed that this is a fair cross-section of fans, when many like me have been bored off the Boards by constant moaning of so-called supporters, so that I wasn''t even aware of such a Poll?, and when there was nothing stopping multiple votes?

I personally am rather disgusted that the powers that be at the Pink un seem to have decided that such a poll was a good idea - just when it would be a better idea to try to get the fans pulling together.  The fact is that such Polls as this are always completely loaded in favour of getting the outcome suggested - which, surprise surprise, then happened; they couldn''t even be bothered to make it fair.

 

[Tom Blazak<P><IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR>Tom Blazak<P><P>Ronaldinho - The Huckerby Of The Nou Camp<P> 0]

[quote]Oh well then.....though I hadn''t realised that there were only 2000 Norwich supporters in the world. Why should it be even vaguely assumed that this is a fair cross-section of fans, when many like ...[/quote]

dicky ET AL - that means ''and all'' herby - it was aimed at all of the "blind faithers" - and tantamount to harassment?! that is the most ridiculous thing ive heard for a long time, so when you were calling anyone who doesnt think worthington is the best manager in the world a "closet binner" and saying they''re not real fans, that wasnt more harassing than simply adressing a post to someone?

dicky - im impressed with the attitude shown by you on this one - except the loyalty thing at the end, you are entitled to your own opinion, i just wanted to know how you''d defend your viewpoint that seemed to be there''s ''only a few worthy outers''....the loyalty thing however, im 18 years old, i applied for UEA uni specifically cuz its norwich, ive been going to games since i was 18months old - i was there drawing 1-1 with bayern munich at fcr to take us through into next round of europe, but i was also there getting beat 3-2 by crewe after being 2-1 up with only a few minutes left on a cold feb night, i am as loyal as they come to the players and to the badge....however, worthington and managers in general are not above the club and worthless seems to think he is bigger than the club....he doesnt accept responsibility for his actions, he wont accept if the team lose due to his bizarre decisions that it is his fault, whenever questioned on a bizarre decision "i dont care what the fans (/anyone else) thinks, im in charge" - this sort of arrogant and essentially childish behaviour has meant that many many fans have lost respect for him, maybe the players too, i dont know.....what i do knw is tomorrow night il be 100% behind every player walking out onto that pitch, however if we are 3/4/5 down at half time AGAIN (yes i know it hasnt been 5 yet) then i will understandably be a bit miffed.....

[ZLF 342]

[quote]Yawn - OK the majority WHO VOTED want Worthy out. So what? Am I not entitled to believe in what I believe in? I''m with Delia and Michael on this one. Stick together in bad times. Loyalty - you ...[/quote]

Cant recall similar criticisms of the small poll on here a couple of weeks ago where the result was 3:2 in favour of keeping worthy based on a much smaller 70ish responses.

Either way there is a ground swell within the pink un readership which is a population of the city fans.  Any survey of 2000 people is statisically pretty significant - MORI polls which have a +/- 5% accuracy either was tend to be based on 1000-1200 interviews and are representative of the UK population.     2000 fans out of 100,000 make this far more representative on a like for like basis.  Clearly this ignores those who can be bothered to multiple vote so distorting the results - but a move from parity to 6 times against than for represents a significant movement in the ground swell of fans opinions.

Loyalty?  my loyalty to the club is unwavering, on the pitch it is and will always remain total - to the individuals within it, it varies upon their contribution and value to the club.  Worthy is not delivering, nor looks capable of delivering, the performances this club deserves.

We are a third of the way through a second success poor managerial season, this is not a knee jerk situation.

OTBC

[Herb 0]

[quote]dicky ET AL - that means ''and all'' herby - it was aimed at all of the "blind faithers" - and tantamount to harassment?! that is the most ridiculous thing ive heard for a long time, so when you were ca...[/quote]

Perhaps you could show me where I''ve accused someone of being a closet binner simply for calling for Worthy''s head?
The only time I''ve ever accused someone of such a heinous crime is when they come on here with 2 or 3 posts to their name and post ridiculous stuff, trying to wind people up.

Although I do wonder about your avatar. I wouldn''t want that next to my name, no matter whats scrawled across it.

[allways travelling 0]

How long do you think it will be before it all changes back in worthys favour sheff wed and cardiff win both of these back in the mix.worthy will eventually look back at you worthy outers and have a laugh along with the rest of those who have stuck with him.

[0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Poor deluded fool, you must honestly believe Worthless can turn this around, you have my sympathy as do all the others who cannot see the obvious.

[ZLF 342]

[quote]Poor deluded fool, you must honestly believe Worthless can turn this around, you have my sympathy as do all the others who cannot see the obvious.[/quote]

My view until recently was that Worthy could, if he was prepared to learn from his errors, turn the club around and achieve the success we all want - so if Herb, allways and Dicky etc are still of that opinion then that is OK with me.

To be honest it is STILL the best outcome for NCFC if he does exactly that, go on a run of twenty games with only 1/2 defeats, moving us up thetable - after all that is what we all want for this club.  

It just my scales have tipped beyond the point where I can reasonably HOPES that Worthy can actually do it, let alone believe it.

Deluded fools? - nah;    just of a different opinion.*

OTBC

* (And wrong of course - IMO :w00t

[allways travelling 0]

[quote]My view until recently was that Worthy could, if he was prepared to learn from his errors, turn the club around and achieve the success we all want - so if Herb, allways and Dicky etc are still of tha...[/quote]

We all have our opinions and i like what you said i am of the same opinion all i care about is norwich city.i just dont like change at first sign of problems its still early enough to get the problems sorted out and feel very strongly when the injuries get better we will.  

[Syteanric 1]

[quote]Oh well then.....though I hadn''t realised that there were only 2000 Norwich supporters in the world. Why should it be even vaguely assumed that this is a fair cross-section of fans, when many like ...[/quote]

there might well be only 2000 Norwich supporters when we are relegated

jas

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

"Blind" faith? I''m not blind. I can see what''s happening. But as I have aged I have learned that things are never as good, nor as bad, as they seem. And patience counts. It''s like dumping a girlfriend when things start to go wrong. If you always do that you''ll be worse off in the long run. Eventually you find someone who you think could last and you work through the tough times when they come. I''m not yet prepared to dump someone who we''ve had such good times with. Not while he''s still willing to work through it, the players are still willing to work through it and the Board are too.

I''m not denying that these are pretty cr*p times. But I still think we have a good manager going through a bad patch, rather than a bad manager. And I''m worried that if we change simply because we crave instant success, we could easily end up with a bad manager.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

Jas, I hope your ''2000 supporters'' thing was with tongue in cheek, but it makes me laugh that we all take the mickey out of Ipswich for only getting 22k supporters, then say ''but our supporters will all go if we don''t have success''. Are they more loyal than Norwich fans then...?

[Tom Blazak<P><IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR>Tom Blazak<P><P>Ronaldinho - The Huckerby Of The Nou Camp<P> 0]

[quote]Perhaps you could show me where I''ve accused someone of being a closet binner simply for calling for Worthy''s head? The only time I''ve ever accused someone of such a heinous crime is when they come on...[/quote]

the avatar has scum scrawled across it in yellow and green for the record.

[Flick Fleck 0]

It''s an important point to note that not all faith is "blind faith".  As Amarillo and others say, of course we can all see what is going wrong at the moment, but where some of us differ is on what we think we should do about it.  I still have enough faith that NCFC can turn this around with what we''ve got.  Making a management change at this time should be seen as a last resort.

I would like to see what exactly the club is planning to do about the situation. It would be a good time to be a fly on the wall at Carrow Road and Colney.  If I was on the Board I would sit Worthy down in my big swanky office for a full-on one-to-one and clarify exactly what are the problems at hand (What are the coaching problems?  What are the player issues?  What support does he need to turn things around?) and agree some simple steps that should be taken now (Improved player motivation, dealing with the stress, resolving any disputes in the squad, coaching priorities).  And I would make sure that Worthy did exactly the same with each of his players in turn.  Instill a sense of responsibility for the TEAM.  Put it on the line what NCFC expects of everybody.

This would be constructive action.  It would help to BUILD on what we already have.  It would be MANAGEMENT in a nutshell.

 

And it would be far more useful than making rushed decisions about Worthy''s future at this point.

 

[Herb 0]

[quote]My view until recently was that Worthy could, if he was prepared to learn from his errors, turn the club around and achieve the success we all want - so if Herb, allways and Dicky etc are still of tha...[/quote]

Do you know what ZLF, I don''t know if Worthy can turn it round, I hope he can but the main reason I''m for keeping our nerve with him is that I''m also a realist.
Sacking him, paying off his contract, poaching someone else, paying their old club''s compensation, providing the new man with transfer funds - thats some serious wedge we''re talking. Its a big risk to take, especially as the new man might do no better.

People have suggested Bruce. Quite apart from the way he left Carrow Road under a cloud, his record in the Prem this year so far is no better than ours last season. People have also suggested Keegan. While I admire his attacking (if kamikaze) style of football, look at how many jobs hes walked from. He could leave us in the lurch 6 months down the line.

Put simply I think its too early to bottle it.

[Herb 0]

[quote]the avatar has scum scrawled across it in yellow and green for the record.[/quote]

I know, but just the sight of that thing makes me uneasy

[ZLF 342]

[quote]It''s an important point to note that not all faith is "blind faith". As Amarillo and others say, of course we can all see what is going wrong at the moment, but where some of us differ is on what w...[/quote]

I agree flick fleck - I said some time ago the question is how the club were managing Worthy about his plans for progression and how beleiveable they felt those plans were that was important and that remains the case. Going to Worthy with suggestions of support (non playing such as a short-term tactical mentor)

It is so much on faith, whether you believe Worthy can make the team turn the corner or not.  The ones dealing with him first hand trust him to do so and I dont really have a problem with that, its just my beleif is that he is unlikely to do so.

In these situations, and this is where Chris Wises article was right (praise from me for an Archant piece  - surely not!) in that currently there are no right or wrong answers as it is all intangible.  One side or the other will be proved right eventually but that does not make the present any easier.  That is why we have to avoid the holier than you attitude, insulting 1 line response approach when discussing this between ourselves as we are not our enemies, we are just stood on different forks in the path, neither knowing which is the right route to take.

All I do know is that the sands are shifting from under Nigel and that ground swell needs quick results.  As I said earlier if he can do it great - but bobbing along winning 1 out of three  will lead to mid table which is not good enough for me - and us taking the wrong fork.

 

OTBC

[YankeeCanary 0]

I am responding to Flick Fleck and Herb, both of whom, I am sure, are well intentioned but, I believe, are wrong in their hesitancy for action. Flick Fleck, you say you would like Nigel to be called in for a good constructive management discussion and go through all of the issues, followed by the same one on one between the managers and each of the players. Are you honestly of the belief this has not been done with Nigel, first of all, a number of times already. If it has not, our problems go way beyond Nigel. Further, imagine your subsequent scenario of Nigel sitting down in turn with each of the players and going through the issues like a broken record ( we know Nigel is experienced in that area ). The whole thing would become a great big joke to the players when they congregate between themselves.

Herb, I understand your concern on the cost of dealing with sacking Nigel and recruiting a replacement. But surely the risk of not taking that action has the potential to set us even further back financially. It''s apparent to me that very few of the people posting on this board believe there is much  chance of us being relegated. Another 2 or 3 bad performances can see us mired exactly in that position and, given what''s occurring on the pitch at the moment, that might be enough to shatter confidence all around. If the unbelievable then happens, it can set this club back several years. The lost opportunity of that in all respects is what needs to be assessed against the cost of taking action with management replacement.

[ob1 0]

>> People have also suggested Keegan.

I might be part of the Worthy Out crew, but lord! I''d never want that chump in charge. Ever. Sorry, Worthy. All is forgiven!