Home form

[grefstad 0]

So, home games against the mighty Palace, Stoke, Bournemouth and Leicester have produced 4 points. Out of a possible 12.

I would expect us to at least get 7 points from those 4 games, maybe even 8 (2 wins, two draws).

But to sit with 1-1-2 after 4 games against such opposition is pretty dire in my book.

Yes, unlucky against Palace. Should have had a draw, and maybe could have won it but for Jeromes goal disallowed.

Hammered Stoke, and should have win, but did not.

Win deservedly against Bournemouth (although they never turned up).

Lost vs Leicester, in a game that perhaps should have been drawn based on actual chances and general play.

We are not getting what we deserve at home, and it must be a cause of concern for AN and co.

Looking at how these teams set up against us, Palace and Leicester were defensive setups, counterattacking, design to suss our slow defenders high up the pitch and then hit on the break to great effect.

Bournemouth had plans to play a bit, but were very poor on the day, and left themselves open to Wes magic.

Stoke were rather dull and solid, as they always are away, but were hammered, and we should have won that game with ease with better finishing.

Common nominator is that we struggle to break down defensive-minded setups at home. And we struggle against pace. No surprise, really, as it is a problem for all but the best teams in this division.

But given that we need around 10 wins to survive in this division, we would expect 7 of those, at least, to come on home turf.

It´s a long season, and we will have our ups and downs, as every other team, but our home form needs to improve, and quickly.

When we got Mulumbu back, I expect us to field something like this in most home games, apart from when we play the top guns (4-1-4-1):

Ruddy

Whitts/Wisdom - Martin-Bassong-Olsson

Mulumbu

Redmond-Howson-Dorrans/VOO-Brady

Wes

Mbokani

against top teams, likely a more strict 4-2-3-1, something like this:

Ruddy

Whitts/Wisdom-Martin-Bassong-Olsson

Mulumbu-Tettey

Redmond-Howson/Wes-Brady

Mbokani

[kick it off 2,062]

[quote user="grefstad"]When we got Mulumbu back, I expect us to field something like this in most home games, apart from when we play the top guns (4-1-4-1): 

 Ruddy 

Whitts/Wisdom - Martin-Bassong-Olsson (4)

Mulumbu (1)

Redmond-Howson-Dorrans/VOO-Brady (4)

Wes (1)

Mbokani (1)

against top teams, likely a more strict 4-2-3-1, something like this:

Ruddy

Whitts/Wisdom-Martin-Bassong-Olsson

Mulumbu-Tettey

Redmond-Howson/Wes-Brady

Mbokani[/quote]

If we''re going to field an extra player in a 4-1-4-1-1 formation, I''d rather we utilised that against the top teams and played the weaker ones with 11 players rather than the other way round. 

I think Mulumbu will make a big difference for us, as will Mbokani when he is ready to start games (soon hopefully).

Our home form in terms of results has been poor, but we''ve played pretty well, we''ve just not been clinical enough in front of goal (not to mention given some really sloppy ones away).

[ellis206 0]

I wouldn''t say our defenders are slower than any other teams in the league and would say that they are actually quicker than quite a few. Issue is playing your full backs so far up the pitch, no defender in the world can get back that quickly, Olsson was left exposed at W Ham last week and Whittaker yesterday.

[Carrow89 186]

Such opposition ?Palace and Leicester are currently 4th and 5th in the table. Perhaps City players need to run around a bit more (or to you stop whinging a bit less).

[hogesar 10,765]

Haha thanks Allen, saved me the bother.

[grim reaper 0]

Don''t worry grefstad away form will see us safe.

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="AllenWickerbasket"]Such opposition ?Palace and Leicester are currently 4th and 5th in the table. Perhaps City players need to run around a bit more (or to you stop whinging a bit less).[/quote]

Certainly need to match these sides for effort if we are going to get something from them.

Or do you expect Palace and Leicester to be 4th and 5th come May?

Nope, not me either. It means they are currently on a wave of confidence and momentum. Momentum we all know they will not be able to keep up, but how did they get the momentum? Likely through hard work and a game plan to suit their player personell (and a bit of good fortune to go with it).

And I doubt they are playing central midfielders out of position too often..

Using Palace and Leicester''s positions in the table to justify that we did not beat them is just deluded.

Would Palace be 4th if we had beaten them, or Leicester 5th?

We should fancy our chances in any home game against teams like Palace and Leicester, who are hardly world beaters.

We lost those games through a mix of a bad day for key players, poor tactics and personell pick (Leicester), and sheer bad luck and a poor ref (Palace). Against Stoke it was woeful finishing and a worldie goalkeeper that prevented us.

But it all points towards a failure to get something from games we are expected to get something from.

If people like you claim we should not be too downhearted by not getting anything from games vs Palace and Leicester at home, then how are your expectations when facing better teams at home? The Arsenals, Tottenhams, Man U, ManC, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.

You expect us to pick up the poinits we have lost against Palace and Leicester vs these kind of teams?

If not, then you should also worry (at this stage admittedly, slightly) at our failure to beat teams we should be on terms with in our home games. Putting your head in the sand will not help, even though I concede that our eventual worries as fans will not help the team anyway, since we have little or no bearing on how the team performs.

[TCCANARY 263]

But it all points towards a failure to get something from games we are expected to get something from. If people like you claim we should not be too downhearted by not getting anything from games vs Palace and Leicester at home, then how are your expectations when facing better teams at home? The Arsenals, Tottenhams, Man U, ManC, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc. You expect us to pick up the poinits we have lost against Palace and Leicester vs these kind of teams?

 

This paragraph really does sum up your lack of understanding.

In football nothing is as cut and dried as you seem to think it is, the unpredictable nature of the game is what attracts people to it. 

 

 

[grefstad 0]

"This paragraph really does sum up your lack of understanding.

In football nothing is as cut and dried as you seem to think it is, the unpredictable nature of the game is what attracts people to it. "

Ofcourse, but is this a competition about being most philisophical or romantic about football, or is it about our current results? you are twisting my arguments, and then claim I am lacking in understanding. Quite an achievement, I have to say.

So you choose to look away from our rather poor results at home this season, because you personally find the games unpredictablity attractive?

If I wanted such a philosophical discussion, I would have initated it. But I dont.

I want a discussion about our home form (or lack of it), and what people think are the reasons behind it,

Not TCCanary''s personal romantic view on football in general.

[hogesar 10,765]

Well, our home form hasn''t been terrible. But under AN so far the way we''ve played has always worked well away from home.

Our home form and away form combined are good enough so far, because we''re not in the relegation zone. I''m not too bothered about where we get our points from, just that we do. The selfish side of me would rather the results came at home as I go to every home game but not too many away games.

Every home game i''ve found entertaining though, which is more than I could ever say in that season under Hughton..

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="grefstad"]"This paragraph really does sum up your lack of understanding. In football nothing is as cut and dried as you seem to think it is, the unpredictable nature of the game is what attracts people to it. " Ofcourse, but is this a competition about being most philisophical or romantic about football, or is it about our current results? you are twisting my arguments, and then claim I am lacking in understanding. Quite an achievement, I have to say. So you choose to look away from our rather poor results at home this season, because you personally find the games unpredictablity attractive? If I wanted such a philosophical discussion, I would have initated it. But I dont. I want a discussion about our home form (or lack of it), and what people think are the reasons behind it, Not TCCanary''s personal romantic view on football in general.[/quote]

 

Why can''t you read things properly, you are using our results so far to justify that we will not get points in future matches, I pointed out that football is not that predictable and then you run off on some rubbish about being ''romantic about football''. 

 

 

 

 

[grefstad 0]

True, the season has been entertaining so far. Can''t complain in that department.

And our general play has been a lot more adventurous, which is to be expected by whoever took over from Hughton. So far, so good, I agree.

The slight worry is that we can not expect to keep up our away form for most of the season, but we can expect to pick up most of our points at home (which nearly all football teams do). Therefore our stumbling start at home is a tad worrying.

Nothing would please me more if we pick up enough wins/points away to stay safe without having to rely on home form, but nothing suggests this will actually be the case.

But if we pick up 5 away wins, and only 5 home wins, I will be very happy, as it will most likely mean we are still in this division next season.

Still, looking at it with realistic eyes, from the 10 wins needed, probably at least 7 will have to come at home, from our 19 home games.

I have little doubts that we will eventually start to pick up more points at home, as we are historically a typical home team. But our rather stuttering start at home gives us less margins for error in future games, and that is a slight worry.

If we look back at this thread in May 2016, I hope our stats would read something like this:

Home: 7-7-5

Away: 3-7-9

Total: 10-14-14

44 points, 14th place.

[grefstad 0]

"Why can''t you read things properly, you are using our results so far to justify that we will not get points in future matches, I pointed out that football is not that predictable and then you run off on some rubbish about being ''romantic about football''"

Really? What if I say that your approach is almost equal to putting your head in the sand.

It is part and parcel of being a fan to worry about the future. Espesially for a club like ours. We are by no means part of this establishment "by right", so therefore every game, every lost point, is a worry.

There are reasons to be more optimistic about our chances of survival than under Hughton, yes. Far more reasons. But if you would rather just shrug your shoulders after each loss and move on as if nothing have happened, then I would question your appetite for being a Norwich fan at all. If you are not a tad nervous for how our season will pan out, then I applaud you for that, but for me, my home form is a slight worry, and I guess it is for at least 70% of Norwich fans. Not for you, apparantly.

[Carrow89 186]

So if we had beaten Palace and Leicester they would not be in the position they are now (and if Southampton had not beaten Chelsea neither would be in the position they are now I suppose).  It is hard to know where to begin in any reply to such stupidity. So I shan''t.

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="AllenWickerbasket"]So if we had beaten Palace and Leicester they would not be in the position they are now (and if Southampton had not beaten Chelsea neither would be in the position they are now I suppose).  It is hard to know where to begin in any reply to such stupidity. So I shan''t.[/quote]

Well...who claimed their position in the table as a proof of their credentials of their wins at Carra? Certainly not me.

Before taking my word out on context, maybe you should bother your overworked brains with reading the entire post first? Or is it too much to ask?

I am saying that these teams should we be able to beat at Carrow Road, but we did not.

And I am not fooled by their lofty position in the table at the moment, BECAUSE these teams are never as good as the table currently suggest they are. The table does not lie in May, but it may well lie in September/October.

If you don''t know that, then you truly are not worth the letters I spend on this answer.

If you disagree that we should expect to beat these teams at Carrow Road, that we are not "worthy" of beating Leicester and Palace because they are "so good", let me know as soon as possible, so I can mark your card.

[Lessingham Canary 108]

One flaw, in this league you should never expect to beat any team, all points gained in this league will be worked hard for, we are a good team and even though only a season out of the PL we are experiencing a new adventure with every fixture, the moment AN and his staff start to expect, we will lose as will have underestimated the opposition. Please try and not make it something it isn''t.

[Guest]

"Burying your head in the sand", as opposed to what? Posting predictably drab and negative posts on the Pink Un forum?

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="Ian"]"Burying your head in the sand", as opposed to what? Posting predictably drab and negative posts on the Pink Un forum?[/quote]

Maybe your sensible soul would feel better if I wrote an ultrapositive post abut our 1-1-2 home record vs Palace, Stoke, Bournemouth and Leicester?

Realism isn´t the same as being negative. Comprende?

[Herman 11,136]

Your just moaning for the sake of it. People get bored of it.

[If wed only kept Howie.. 3]

Grefstad, why do you support Norwich?

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="grefstad"][quote user="AllenWickerbasket"]So if we had beaten Palace and Leicester they would not be in the position they are now (and if Southampton had not beaten Chelsea neither would be in the position they are now I suppose).  It is hard to know where to begin in any reply to such stupidity. So I shan''t.[/quote]

Well...who claimed their position in the table as a proof of their credentials of their wins at Carra? Certainly not me.

Before taking my word out on context, maybe you should bother your overworked brains with reading the entire post first? Or is it too much to ask?

I am saying that these teams should we be able to beat at Carrow Road, but we did not.

And I am not fooled by their lofty position in the table at the moment, BECAUSE these teams are never as good as the table currently suggest they are. The table does not lie in May, but it may well lie in September/October.

If you don''t know that, then you truly are not worth the letters I spend on this answer.

If you disagree that we should expect to beat these teams at Carrow Road, that we are not "worthy" of beating Leicester and Palace because they are "so good", let me know as soon as possible, so I can mark your card.[/quote]Pretty sure you were one of the people saying the table did lie in May after Hughton led us to our highest finish in 20 years because WBA and City were "on the beach"?

[grefstad 0]

Look at the last 3 posts in this thread (mine apart). All 3 trying to divert instead of answering properly, and all laying words in my mouth that I have never said.

I dont mind. But it explains why this forum is virtually dead. As a supporter forum, I have rarely seen a place with less relevant activity. If I am kind, maybe it has 100 posts per day? On normal weekdays perhaps closer to 50.

And if you try to bring up some relevant points, in come the status quo people. Those who want everything to be as it has always been in this forum. Beware, those who want to discuss something about Norwich City. Do not do it in this place.

I for one dont mind a good quarrel if I can find one, as I am always confident on winning any discussion, if I have to.

But I am not visiting this forum to write and read shit back and forth.

If this place is not the place to hold discussions about Norwich City, without always having to defend a sound and perfectly sensible view on happenings, then so be it.

[Carrow89 186]

"The table does not lie in May, but it may well lie in September/October."So why not wait till then ? 

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

[quote user="grefstad"]Look at the last 3 posts in this thread (mine apart). All 3 trying to divert instead of answering properly, and all laying words in my mouth that I have never said.

I dont mind. But it explains why this forum is virtually dead. As a supporter forum, I have rarely seen a place with less relevant activity. If I am kind, maybe it has 100 posts per day? On normal weekdays perhaps closer to 50.

And if you try to bring up some relevant points, in come the status quo people. Those who want everything to be as it has always been in this forum. Beware, those who want to discuss something about Norwich City. Do not do it in this place.

I for one dont mind a good quarrel if I can find one, as I am always confident on winning any discussion, if I have to.

But I am not visiting this forum to write and read shit back and forth.

If this place is not the place to hold discussions about Norwich City, without always having to defend a sound and perfectly sensible view on happenings, then so be it.[/quote]

It must be terrible being such a visionary and not getting the respect you demand.Perhaps you should share your genius elsewhere and maybe you''ll get the adulation you crave.

[Carrow89 186]

[quote user="grefstad"]Look at the last 3 posts in this thread (mine apart). All 3 trying to divert instead of answering properly, and all laying words in my mouth that I have never said.

I dont mind. But it explains why this forum is virtually dead. As a supporter forum, I have rarely seen a place with less relevant activity. If I am kind, maybe it has 100 posts per day? On normal weekdays perhaps closer to 50.

And if you try to bring up some relevant points, in come the status quo people. Those who want everything to be as it has always been in this forum. Beware, those who want to discuss something about Norwich City. Do not do it in this place.

I for one dont mind a good quarrel if I can find one, as I am always confident on winning any discussion, if I have to.

But I am not visiting this forum to write and read shit back and forth.

If this place is not the place to hold discussions about Norwich City, without always having to defend a sound and perfectly sensible view on happenings, then so be it.[/quote]So you enjoy a good quarrel. But that doesn''t include having to defend a sound and perfectly sensible view on happenings. So you would prefer a quarrel where everybody agreed with you ? Rather a strange quarrel, some might suggest.

[grefstad 0]

I enjoy a quarrel, if I have to. But in a supporter forum, I don''t expect ti.

You seem to fill your dull days with creating what I will call straw man''s argumentation. Don''t know if it is a word in England, but in Norway, strawman argumentation is to put words in other people''s mouths, which they have never said, nor suggested, and then start to "argue" on this new theme. It is a diversion if the original subject, and pretty pittiful.

Now, if you or your fellow threadkillers don''t want to discuss the original topic, I suggest you leave the thread to those who will.

[If wed only kept Howie.. 3]

I''m just interested - why do you support Norwich?

You seem very dissatisfied with the current team / tactics (rightly or wrongly) - i just wondered what motivates you in "supporting" Norwich.

[grefstad 0]

"I''m just interested - why do you support Norwich?

You seem very dissatisfied with the current team / tactics (rightly or wrongly) - i just wondered what motivates you in "supporting" Norwich."

I like the underdog in all sports. And, lets face it, in football, Norwich will always be an underdog, espescially in the Premier League. I also like the thought that a team can do well without having rich uncles, and can do well with a core of local players.

I originate from the middle parts of Norway, and remember fondly when Rosenborg played very well in Europe with a core of local players, most of them originating from the local muncpality around Trondheim.

Even beat AC Milan 2-1 away in a CL group deciding game in 1996, to dump Milan out of the tournament and move to the last 16. That team won in Milan, with 10 players coming from the county surrounding the town of Trondheim.

Also beat Dortmund 3-0 away with largely the same group of players.

When I first started supporting Norwich in 1986, it was a team consisting of English players. Not all of them locals, but still. And the football played, with focus on pass and move, was very good.

When Norwich did well in Europe, it was with English players. The club has never gone the "european way" with buying overseas players very often. More so in recent years perhaps, but still it is a club with mostly British players. I like that, and I can see much of the same in this club as in other clubs I am supporting. They base themselves on local players, or at least national players, and go their own ways.

I am not directly dissatisfied with the team, and the performances, but I am rather annoyed by the fact that this team could do so much better with a little nous.

I am not deluded enough to believe that Norwich, as a team, can be mixing it with the big boys frequently, like the late 80s, early 90s. Therefore, it may seem like pittiful moaning when we fail to win matches i which we really should do better.

I dont expect us to be on terms with Arsenal, Man U, Man C, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Everton, etc over a season. We can get a result in single matches, yes, but not frequently against these sides.

But we can certainly be at terms with clubs like Stoke, Leicester, Palace, etc. They are not much better than us, if at all.

And when we know that our eventual success in this division will be depending on how we do against clubs of similar stature, it is disappointing to see the good work by getting (maybe unexpected) points at Liverpool and West Ham undone by a sloppy display at home against a team like Leicester.

This thread is a little dig of our home form. 1-1-2 against Palace, Stoke, Bournemouth and Leicester is not good enough in my book.

From the responses seen here, people seem to think it is good enough. I disagree.

And when you create a thread about a particular subject, in this case our home record, you expect a discussion around this subject, not a discussion about my fan credentials. Such diversions are pointless, and in my view unescessary.

So to summarize, my motivation for supporting Norwich is the joy of seeing a team, often underdogs, perform to its potential. Not every week, but more often than not.

And the start of this season, with the kind fixture list we have had, has in my eyes not been as good as hoped for.

It is not a catastrophe, but not overly good either.

I claim that our 8 games has produced a point tally which is at least 4-5 points below what I would say we should have had by now.

I can only recall us being a bit lucky in one game, vs Liverpool. In other games, we have lost more points than we have deserved (Palace, Stoke, West Ham, maybe Leicester too). And I dont believe it is all down to just bad luck. Not being able to see games out (West Ham), avoid silly penalties against us (Leicester), winning when hammering the opposition (Stoke) is not just down to bad luck. It is a lack of quality in crucial situations.

Our season start has therefore been "OK", as some would put it.

I expect a bit more than that, but must surely accept that others think we deliver as we are equipped to do.