Lavanche

Redmon will be new fans favourite after this season ^^ What a fantastic second half for him.

Our delivery again was a problem. Johnson and Turner seemed to have a bit problem again with the ball, but both did well on defending and Johnson started one or two attacks with well timed tackle. Elmander did look a bit slow for the first half and Wolf was fighting more for the balls than "Swedish Holt". Fer Snoddy and Whittaker all looked good. Same as Redmond, but he still could be a bit more useful for defence and pass better, but what a dribble that was and almost scored. Bassong wasn''t at his best, but did decent job. Same goes for Garrido who made again good effort for attacking third, but struggled a bit in defence as Redmond didnt help him much. Ruddy was again exellent with crossing balls. Southampton was closer to score and had clearer penalty situation, but I think we bossed most of first half. A bit too much long balls for my taste. I dont like when we open long from free kick after offside and goal kicks if we have chance to play it short. Also Johnson and Fer had to use a bit too much legs in my opinion. They switched sides all the time contributed for attacks while our strikers stood quite much still. Elmander should drop a bit more down or our midfield will run out of gas after 65-75 minutes. Also we dont always have to play it over defence... Wolf is good chasing ground balls so if someone could deliver those for him. Few times I cursed that Snoddy wasnt behind the ball or Hoolahan on field when we got those 3 against 4 attacks and RvW made a good run behind back 4. Just slide it in..

[quote user="Green and Yellow fellow"]How can anyone say Garrido has a ''better'' delivery?Ollson has hardly had a chance to prove what he''s capable of..[/quote] If nothing else Garrido has great left foot.. We didnt like him for nothing previous season. For me Olsson is better almost in every other aspect, but Garridos crossing is sometimes so beautiful to watch.

Yup I would have wanted to see Olsson too because of his pace, but I think Garrido has better delivery and I guess Redmond starts ahead of Pilkington for same reason to keep that width and as he isn''t clinical as Pilkington, but his movement and skills makes room for other players. I think we see lot of crosses today. Also glad to see Fer in a place where he is supposed to be best!

I saw a dream that Wolf scored outstanding volley outside the box from Snoddy''s pass and headed winner in a last 10 minutes to kill the game. When I woke up I was sure it was sunday at least an hour so it must have been a vision as I normaly dont remember my dreams that well. Anyway for Hughton''s and my sanity sake I hope we get 3 points. I dont care how we take it, but would do a miracles for our supporters spirit and make this forum more bearable for next week

Pff.. I hate these thread that makes me think worst case scenarios.. There are 4 or 5 players in our squad that are irreplaceable in the long run and 3 of them are injury prone. Probably have to find work from Norwich to try and stay in loop ^^

Yep I expect we have made our major signings already, but I quite sure that Hughton has made inquiries all around to see if there is players out there we could get under their wage and transfer value. Toivonen for example have not moved yet and our bid was accepted earlier, so it is matter of hours if he changes his mind. Also Tottenham most likely will loan/sell at least one of player from trio Sigurdson, Townsend, Carroll. And the list continues. So wait and see, but keep your feet on the ground.

Yes I ment I want us to sing it slow instead of that random shouting that just doesnt make any favour for the song.

[quote user="Wings of a Sparrow"]Take a look at the Dortmund supporters here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHywRb9megA It''ll make you weep.[/quote] Yup Yellow Wall is supposed to be loudest fan group in whole Germany.

Yup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9JlunfCh4E This is something that is normal in HBSC games. Team that has had lots of struggle in past years. Something that I would want to see in snake pit and barclays before every home game and that new/old slow version of OTBC ^^

And to be honest Tettey doesnt have huge range of passing variations, but he doesnt really lose the ball so often as some people make him. Actually he is quite good to deliver the ball to player with better vision. But I have shouted long time that decent deep lying playmaker could do us miracles and now that we really have first time after our promotion promising box to box player beside him, it could be the factor that brings us some cup glory. Anyway Fox is too one sided player that doesnt offer much outside of his passing. His movement never was from top shelf and as a defending midfielder he is average. As said in this thread it would mean hugely different tactics to bring him on and make him effective without giving up our solid formation.

They wont sell Holtby. Was awesome in Schalke and what I saw him during previous season he wasnt that bad in Tottenham either. English connection comes from his dad being from Liverpool. Was working in germany or something like that. And I heard they are preparing to loan Siggy for German team. There could be chance for us to get between that deal, but I think they still want to see if he is up to their level and wont sell this season.

[quote user="HampsteadCanary"]I know Spurs are in for him, but can you believe Ajax only want £8-£12 million for Christian Eriksen? Fantasy land I know but he would be awesome behind RvW...wages always an issue but I''d rather have someone like him and not bring in another CB if it meant having that creative spark between midfield and attack.[/quote] He wants a huge wage and high profile club. Great player and great ego. Bit same situation that is with Keisuke Honda

Well dont take my **** personaly then. In my opinion you didnt do anything else than trying to get on my nerves. And what comes to being a monkey, then just stay out of conversation if you are not willing to contribute for it or at least just say your opinion without calling anyone out. As I said I agree that Howson had couple good games at the end of the season, but same time he had few horrible ones in mid of good ones. Mayby he was played out of position, but that certain Liverpool game pops in my mind where he was out of clue under heavy pressing. Saturday we are facing a team which is builded for legs to run us out of gas so not best place for trying out a player in "new position" where he has struggled earlier. Only game where he was somewhat succesful as a main creator I remember was a Reading game which we won. But even at that game he had two strikers front of him to be aimed at and he didnt do anything special. He just played well and straight after that he had horrible game against Stoke and then again three or two good games. (AV, ManC and WBA) I remember this as I praised him after Reading and Aston Villa games. And accept it or not, Howson was out of form in Everton game and I''m hardly the only one with that opinion and stated in many posts why and even given stats to back it up. Anyway seems that this isn''t going anywhere. As a player type I dont agree that Howson fits for the slot. Hughton rarely has tried that after those few poor games previous season. Mayby it is his time to try and I prefer him over Fer there, but still at the end Hoolahan has best point ratio from our players after Whittaker I think. (At least previous season he had) He was decent if not good against Everton and created chances and did that again against Bury. So if we are looking form Hooly should be equally rewarded as Howson. This way or that as said Fer should play in his own position as a box to box and if it means Howson or Fer in 10 slot I would go for Howson. But let''s agree to disagree.

As long as your only agenda in your messages and by twitter is to make me look bad, you are little bit cnut. You personaly insulted me quite many times before I released my first message that included an instult. You clearly have time at work to keep insulting me so I how could I know that you have no time to give something else for this discussion. Also if you keep interfering my arguments and state them wrong you are clearly claiming that your opinion differs from mine and I only asked you to stand behind tht before my last post and tried to clarify where I stand. Not to mention english is my fourth choise language so sometimes I can express myself poorly or understand you wrong, so it shouldnt be so hard to be polite and prove me wrong with something to back up the talk. For the argument sake Howson had a couple of good games previous season, but only game I remember him playing most of the game in the hole was against Liverpool at other games he was sometimes subbed to play there, but again without nothing worth of mentioning. Also his start for the season was awful and he had very poor games (as most of the team) on the second half of the season too and now his Everton game was a poor one and he is said to have good game against Hull. So his most succesful games have been as in somewhat box to box role apart from Hull game. Is this enough to play him front of two midfielders? Or is it enough to drop Fer from line-up or play him out of position instead as holding midfielder or as in "10". This was the point of this conversation. Nothing in Everton game would make me to play him at pocket and what I have seen from Fer gives us more as box to box player. But if he really had that good game against Hull and he managed to create chances from the hole, mayby he would be worth of risk. As said I personaly would give him chance on the second half if Hoolahan or Elmander doesn''t have impact. And I have given quite much detailed arguments from Everton game why I see it this way. So I''m waiting you to get off from work and give me examples from Hull game why we should play him instead of three players mentioned (as I''m quite sure who ever is 10 we will have at least one almost purely holding midfielder on.)

I was speaking about Everton game at the top of my pevious post. Just to avoid misunderstandings. After 45 minutes in Hull game only shot in stats recorded to come from Howson''s pass was Hoolahan''s shot and only shot from a striker came from Garido''s cross by RvW. 3 of his shot leading passes was completed in first half when he was at the right flank. and 2 of them were crosses, not short passes. So again. Why didnt our strikers get more chances when Howson had a great game in a playmaking position?

holtamania: I stated that Howson didnt create a single chance and ruined a good counter attack after we moved him to center against Everton and this is what the stats proved. Your head might be the brickwall, but that is something you could see with your own eyes, if you dont believe the stats. Ofc if you favour him so much you see everybody else around him doing wrong. That is only humane. That is one of the reasons I like to check stats after game as I''m human also and eye can fool you when you favour or dislike someone. Johnson was poor at that day, but he did more or less his job and by his standards he was not worse than Howson. You cant expect him to be good with the ball. He wasnt at his best for the defence either, but did average job. I personaly would like to see Howson''s name before Johnson''s name in the team list, but as we need muscle on the field and any stats wont change the fact that Johnson is better in wrestling than Howson. ( Same fact ofc goes that Hoolahan is worse wrestler than Howson). His name needs to be there. Also simply by looking stats again Johnson passed MORE than Howson. Was this because Howson was marked better or didnt he just move enough is different guestion, but they had almost same passing accuracy and Johnson gave 3 long balls more than Howson with similar accuracy and their defensive stats were again quite similar only 1 tackle more for Howson. By eye both looked quite equally average, so at the end I would rate Howson worst of our midfield trio in that game. Howson style suits more of 3 attacking middlefielders than being 10 with wingers. Where he could shoot challenge or cut outside instead of making and dictating the tempo. I''m still waiting by the way answer that if Howson was so good, why our strikers didnt get single shot when he was making the plays in the middle in Hull game. As you are sure of your opinion and saw the game, you probably can explain why only player to shine on the second half was in the position where his duty should be to make other players to shine.

Ofc I dont and I never said so. Still we were trailing, we had last 25 minutes 2 strikers front of him and he was playing against a side that was playing quite deep. Quite different situation than playing a hard pressing side that also wants to score and keep posession. Situation where Howson have looked out of the place most of times. Also if he was so good in the middle why our strikers didnt record any shots from his assists? He did have two targets after all. And this wasn''t provoke, but genuine guestion as outside of his shots and assist for Hoolahan''s shot there was no mentioning about his influence. Offtopic: Next time mayby bring these arguments on the table at the start of conversation instead of barking behind the back. Previous time you called me by calling my opinion worst in ages and after I gave you argument back with evídence you just disappeared. This kind of behavior is quite childish if you ask me and wont take discussion anywhere. I have made very clear in every conversation on this site about Hull game that I havent seen it and I base my opinion of what has been talked here and how that is related with stats and "live commentary" I managed to follow while being away from home. You clearly have opinion so, please use arguments to prove it, if you think you are right. I''m a person who knows that every coin has a two sides and I have no reason to not accept other people''s opinion and discuss about them.

[quote user="holtamania"]"I didn''t see the game but his heatmap tells me...." is up there with the best/worst things I''ve ever read. [/quote] Well if you dont catch the point I cant help you. I dont know if Howson played well or not, but people tell me he did, but his heat map says quite much he played most part of the game in our righ flank and not behind the striker. Got it?

Reading Canary: What do you mean? O_o

Take the Howson classes of already ^^ He was very poor in Everton game. He looked bad and stats show he was bad. End of discussion. If Hoolahan is judged by how many times he lost the ball in ADVANCED role, Howson have to be judged by same criteria. Same time Hoolahan made more chances to cross and shoot in that game than any other Norwich player and completed second most dribbles after Redmond, so clearly you should praise the smaller of H''mans. In Hull game he seemed to have a good game by stats. Good for him. But he did that in a position where he has more time against a team that was defending quite deep. Two things he is struggling is a that he needs awfully lot time to make good pass althought he seems to have vision and second he doesnt move enought or in a right place after passing the ball. That is reason why I''m not encouraged to try him as a main source of our attacks. I could be wrong and he would have hell of a game, but if we want playmaker, I would go for Hoolahan and if we just want tall man to link up, I would go Elmander or RvW. If they mess up, change Howson in at 60min and he has half hour to prove me wrong or at least give some positive examples that he could play there in future.

GJP: Arguably Howson was in bottom half of our players in Everton game. Actually I cant name anyone who would have been clearly worse in that game. I didnt see Hull game, but his heat map quite much told me that he was succesful playing on right, so putting him behind the striker where he kind a never have played for us would be a risk and playing him alongside of deep middlefielder would be either waste of one spot or waste of Fer if he would have to stay deep. That is reason I didnt include him in my team. Ofc he could be success behind the striker and risk well taken, but then again we have players in our squad that are lesser risk and thats why I went for Hoolahan.

Most of the times: Yes

Also you always have to remember that transfers are not the only cost of the season budget and we are lower mid table team what comes to budget. Chelsea could do zero transfers and still their seasonal budget would be worth of at least two seasons of ours with these transfers. As Mullins said we are doing the catch up at the moment to get to the level midtable teams. In my opinion it is a bit stupid to raise your expections too high. We have good team and with a good season under Hughton we might get in the upper table at the end of the season, but places between 10-15 are quite much more realistic as top 7 clubs are almost certainly already decided and places after them are under high competitio. We can be there, but I wouldn''t cut my wrists, if we find ourselves at 11 again and I would be only mildly dissapointed to end 15th.

For the sake of creativity Ruddy Whittaker - Turner - Bassong - Olsson -----------------Fer---------Tettey---------------- Snoddy--------Hoolahan----------Pilkington Wolf At the end I think Howson and Johnson will find themselves in starting lineup with Fer and fullbacks are Martin - Garrido and I can curse again how bad we are with the ball and how slow our fullbacks are.