lake district canary

It was clear - to me at any rate - that the moment Grant Holt left, Snodgrass set himself up to take over as the main man at the club - and I was completely unsurprised he took that action over the penalty - it was totally in character. To then miss it just compounded the stupidity of it. One of my least favourite players ever - and Leeds fans warned us what he could like before we bought him! A needy player, always had to think he was the main man, fine when his ego was massaged like under Warnock and Bruce. Allowed to get away with too much by Hughton, his stats dominated that second PL season, mainly because he often tried to do it all on his own.

I have that I have that feeling the spirit of Mr Chops still hovers around this board......not sure about Morty though, think he may be too busy elsewhere....Terminally Yellow does a very good impression of him though......

Brilliant. Haven't seen this before, a year before I joined the forum. Superb.

I'm looking for signs of progress and although we were up against it at Hull, we still had enough class to see it through to victory. Imo, unlike other matches where we scraped a point or in some cases won, this performance and result had a little bit more about it. Imo it ought to be a genuine confidence builder for the whole squad - and fans for that matter. It was the first time in two seasons where I have watched a match and had a real sense of involvement. I think we've turned a corner.

Stats or analysis can say what they like, the feeling I got after Hull was that we are on a better course. Nothing ever remains the same in football and we are either improving or we are regressing - and I my mind there is no doubt we are improving. The performance against Hull was good, to the point of everything working well and individual players performing well within the whole team. Even the subs worked with Argos and Fassnacht combining for what turned out to be the winning goal. You can't even say Wagner isn't getting the best out of players with several excellent individual performances at Hull and a team win. What that result should do is build confidence within the group. A couple of weeks ago, I was scathing in my criticism of Wagner, but I must say, I am full of praise for him after Hull. Its seems that this will be the way of it with this manager - ups and downs. What we need of course is a good run of results - and after the Hull match, the confidence should be there to do better in possession and help improve those areas that need improving. Unfortunately for analysts and statisticians, you can't measure confidence statistically!

AARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!! This stupid useless meaningless stat........again! Yes, it's a fact, but do people that dwell on it actually realise the circumstances of it all? The last 9 results of the first PL season were a direct result of the lockdown and the way the lack of fans impacted games. It totally favoured the technically better teams - which was every other team in the league. We saw that the following season when we walked the league - it helped us then - but in the PL, we were done for as soon as lockdown hit. Momentum too was lost, although that is harder to judge or assess. It is always the same, if you dwell on the past too much in anything, it is unhelpful in every way. That stat even ignores the superb record breaking season we had in between the two PL seasons. I never look too far back when it comes to football - there are so many variables that can affect things. For instance, even if you are bottom of the championship at Christmas, it is possible to get in the play offs......football is that open to unpredictability. The affects of covid, lockdowns, injuries, horendous fixture list, certain players being difficult behind he scenes, the fact that we never got the right players in for that second PL season, all of that appears to mean nothing to some people. They say "it is was the same for all teams", but that - again - just ignores our partcular situation. It was bad enough to sack Farke at all, worse that they did it when they did and folly upon folly to have no credible plan for his replacement. Inability to buy good enough players for the PL was the problem, not Farke, who - with his coaching team - were the best chance we had of rebulding again long term. We were always going to be relegated that season - at least with Farke we had a manager who was a good fit for the club - and a proven ability to re-group and succeed again after a bad season.

Anything further back than the game yesterday is irrelevant. It was a line in the sand imo.....and I'm entitled to that opinion without it being called "ridiculous".

I don't think you can really compare Farkeball with Wagner's style. I'd accept that. My memory is that we were behind in both games and therefore obviously not in control. What stood out from those games was the determination, desire and togetherness to get over the line. I had that feeling watching last night, more than any game since the Farke era. For me last night is a season changer.

Towards the back end of that first promotion season, there were performances that we were under the cosh and not in control, but somehow managed to draw or win against the odds. Sheffield Wednesday at home - even Millwall and Forest at home we were not in control, but managed to find a way.

I didn't mean it was our best performance since Farke, just that it gave me a sense of positivity for things going forward for the first time. I've barely been able to focus on watching matches this season, even when we won them, but last night drew me in and left me with that feeling that, yes, there is something there.

It was necessary for me. The first time in two years I've seen something that speaks to me as being a real positive sign. Our best eleven (imo), substitutions that worked, against a strong competetive team.....it was like everything clicked - not in terms of being brilliant football, but in terms of a statement of saying "we are here, we're going to win this match whatever you throw at us" - and that is inspirational.

I'm not letting you get away with that. We had countless wins in the championship that showed that kind of fight and determination against the odds, especially in his first promotion season.

Our best eleven on the pitch, a fighting team performance against a good team away from home, backs to the wall but deserved the win, key players performing well and the desire to bring home the points clear to see. Yes, still room for improvement - but that is a good thing. So yes, for the first time since Farke left, I believe we can do something. The match was - for me - a season changing performance. We have seen the team win in the most difficult of situations - up against it, but up for the challenge and clearly playing for the manager and the shirt with huge desire and class at key moments. I was anti Dean Smith and I've been wanting Wagner gone too - but I think the players will take so much from that win - and so ought we as fans. We have witnessed the kind of performance that if repeated for the rest of the season, will see us in the play offs. It was inspirational form front to back, defined by Rowe's goal and Gunn's spectacular save - but incuded everyone in a yellow shirt. Not going over the top with it, but I do think that it was the right performance with the right players at the right time to show that we do have something to offer this league this season. Lets be avin' you!

Two assists with several key passes that strikers failed to finish during the season. Could he do better? Yes, but that is always the way with sport. I would never write off players just because they are getting older. His fitness is there, his desire is there - and as he showed tonight, the ability to produce is still there. He could do with a goal, but he has that in him. I notice there were threads writing Barnes off tonight too - well he proved he still has something to offer with his second half performance.

Onel is a worthy member of the squad and always has been - and proved tonight he still has something to offer. Sorry if you don't agree, but no need for wum accusations. That just makes you look a bit silly.

Yes, he is good defensively as well. Credit to him for always showing up.

Give the man his due. Chose the right starting 11 and we won, with help from his substitutions.

Can we put that "doesn't produce" label away now? Basically won us the game. Good play from Fassnacht too to get on the end of it, but it was the right cross at the right time.

Good second half. Maybe getting back to full match fitness. There is still a lot to come from him.

Best performance of his I've seen. Top man.

Is this a serious thread? Are people so sucked in to the narrative that they are jumping on the "hope we lose" bandwagon? Seems like some of you are like sheep, with no power of thought to actually think for yourselves. Playing and winning a third round cup tie is a big deal in itself, in this case it also means a tie against a big club in the next round. A free hit - a chance for some of our players who have never done it before, to pit themselves against one of the biggest clubs. We don't know how Sara might react, Sainz or Nunez and any of the youngsters. It is an opportunity - someone said once " no great person ever complained about lack of opportunity" and that is what this is - a huge opportunity to be inspired to play your best football. Wish to lose? Don't be ridiculous.

Apologies, it just really gets my goat whenever the subject crops up.

I've probably already answered on this thread, but the main problem Farke had was that we had that awful end to the first PL season and an awful start to the next PL season. That problem kept in the limelight by the media and those that like to focus on any negatives they can find, took ther form of "twenty games without a win" or whatever it was.................which was nonsense given we had a record breaking season in between. That focus on the PL is what did for him and we will never know if he could have improved results - I'm pretty sure it would have improved - or done at least as well as Smith, who was just poor. A fighting Farke team - like the one that showed up at Brentford - might have done better and we might have seen a better season overall, even if we still went down Imo Farke was unlucky. Unlucky that his first chance in the PL was ruined by the lockdown, unlucky the second time because of the truncated pre-season because of covid and the late arrival of new players.....and a fixture list that couldn't have been much worse at the start of the season. Yet all we got was "Farke can't do it" and to me it seemed like a kind of madness - this pusuit of some fanciful idea that staying in the PL might be easier if we got someone else in.....made even more mad by the fact there didn't seem to be a plan after the sacking. There was a failure to recognise we were never going to be much better than we were, that Farke was still probably getting the best out of what players we had - and that he deserved a chance at a whole PL season, given the first one was so freakishly interupted and spoiled......and please don't start with the puerile "it was the same for all clubs"......it plainly was not. It remains a taint on our history - a totally decent man, committed to the club for 8 years and who gave us some of the best football we've seen since that first PL season in 92/93. It is simply a travesty that he was sacked....and for what? What looks to me like two years of wilderness, faffing around trying to get a tune out of players with no sense of purpose, direction or consisten structure. At least with Farke we knew what we were getting - and often it was very good.

I don't think you have to view it like that. If you are making best use of your resources, then you go as far as you can with that and not get hung up with any preconceptions about which league you are in - you simply do your best and if it isn't good enough, so be it. I presume Webber thought Farke was not getting the best out of the squad, but maybe - given the circumstances - Farke was getting the best out of them. People will point to the Leeds and Chelsea games, but I would point out the hard fought draws to stem the tide of losses and the win at Brentford. I know the decision was made before Brentford, but given that the players were still clearly playing for him - and given that there was no apparent plan for the future, except maybe a fantasy that Lampard was the master plan, then maybe in hindsight that decision could be seen as folly.

Extreme, but agree with the sentiment.