Daphne

Pi$$ed! Asking for money that is owed as a result of the Board''s hopeless financial management isn''t "starving" them. The terms of the season ticket deal was very clear. Please don''t let the Board''s policy of blaming the fans for everything that goes wrong affect you. If Michael Foulger doesn''t give a million to the club''s playing budget - that will NOT be the fans, NCISA''s or anyone else''s fault - just his own decision.

If Cam''s been removed from this forum - as others have, we will finish up with a seriously inferior product. I found some of his recent rant against Mel Lacey spiteful and unpleasant. Likewise some of his comments about NCISA have seemed way off beam - however NCISA committee members - and I think I most likely am representing most who regularly use this forum, are quite capable of responding to Cam. So is Mel Lacey. So Archant, what is this about? This board has been particularly valuable over the past few weeks. Don''t reduce its effectiveness please.

Exquisite Yankee! Norwich''s answer to the Bard of Barnsley.

Thanks mtv and astrodyne for an injection of common sense! And USAcanary when you say: "Wouldn''t it be much quicker if you answered the question as Daphne did." and similar comments - this is not appreciated by me at all!!! This is a message board. It is open to all opinions and means of expression. It is not a court of law, or a formal meeting - God forbid! So USAcanary if you don''t like personal comments, neither do I particularly. Could we get back to discussing something more serious - or more trivial -- or at any rate less personal? And while I am having a little rant, Cam, I''m surprised at you! What interest is NCISA PR to you?

Gazza is absolutely right about Morrison''s. In fact, queueing with other canary fans for my fish and chips before midweek matches - food and drink for 2 for a tenner - I have often regretted out loud that Mr Morrison is not from Norfolk. In contrast, Yellows will serve me - a tenner for burger and chips + drink for one. Why would I go there?

Did anyone hear Keith Harris on 5 Live this morning? He to whom Delia and Michael have entrusted the sale of Norwich City? He spoke a lot of sense - for a banker - about the big deal on his books, the sale of Newcastle. Three interesting points emerged: He said that Newcastle was much more attractive to buyers now the club has been relegated - because it will cost less. He said the large fan base and high level of ticket sales (more than Liverpool) was attractive to buyers. He said that any sale needs to be done before the end of June to let new owners be in charge in time for the new season. Sounds familiar doesn''t it? So, D&M, how hot has the line been between you and Mr Harris over the past few weeks/months?

I am listening, and also reading this messageboard frequently, and I know your question: "Would you/NCISA personally be in favor of boycotting food/drink vendors at the club? (or other specific boycotts that would deprive the club of revenue) has been answered" has been answered at least twice! The food/drink vendors boycott was suggested by a speaker from the floor at the St Andrew''s Hall meeting. No-one else supported this from the floor or the platform. It did not appear in NCISA''s subsequent press statement - and is not NCISA policy. If by "other specific boycotts" you include the reclaiming of money owed to season-ticket holders - you know this WAS in the press statement, and you and I have discussed this on another thread. In terms of any other possible boycotts - restaurants/club shop/programmes/match tickets etc etc this has not as yet been discussed at a NCISA committee meeting. My own view on this is that this is not something NCISA would promote at this time. I hope this is clear. The answer to your question is NO.

Spot on CA! NCISA will never please everyone - but we try as a committee to listen to everyone.

Yankee - I know it is bad etiquette to criticise the grammar/spelling of posters, but I can''t let you get away with your definition of "critic". This side of the Atlantic a critic is someone who reviews, or judges, the merits of something - a play, concert or football match - and gives their opinion. This opinion can be deliriously OTT in its admiration, or negative and condemnatory. The word "critical" usually implies negative criticism, but to be a "critic" usually implies passing an opinion. I am only taking you to task because I am a great admirer of your usually thoughtful and lucid posts on this board - most of which display your excellent critical faculties!

Keith, NCISA has been trying to work with other supporter groups. Groups - including those overseas - were contacted and asked for opinions to feed into the debate at St Andrews Hall. Many responded. The Supporters Trust and the Shareholders'' group were invited to speak at St Andrew''s Hall - and were given the floor to speak and come back with further comment. Last week the NCISA secretary contacted supporters'' groups again - and we have had further replies. The aims of the Trust are to buy shares in the club. The aims of NCISA are much broader - see the website. The role of the Press in all of this has been to report potential areas of disagreement between fans'' groups - which they have been successful in doing. This is most likely because there is no news coming from Carrow Road......nuff said.

He was most likely on his way to Stowmarket. Did he look hungry?

I changed it on my velcro football league tables on the back of my kitchen door - as soon as I knew the outcome of the playoffs. All 4 leagues are now in alphabetical order - which puts us at 59th. Dire or what?

The Brisbane Strikers. Rubbish, but you don''t get cold watching them!

Badger - I gave a similar reply to Gazza many many moons/pages ago! NCISA committee members are aware that there is a clash between advice on reclaiming rebates - and raising money for the club. This was on our agenda on Wednesday night. Any money currently pledged - eg to Ricky Martin for the academy - will be paid. Any future money raised - eg for next season''s Canary Challenge is going to be subject of further discussion. I am aware this is an unsatisfactory answer, but you are not the only one trying to match up our stated objectives with the new ball game that is relegation, League 1, a 3-person Board, a totally rookie manager, no CE etc etc. We are working on it!

Hey Canaries in Bed when you say: "Got my rebate letter today and binned it." Does that mean you are letting the club keep your money? I got my letter today and it is sitting waiting for me to fill the form in. I was always going to do this, but still feel a rat, even though it is MY money that is OWED to me. I will be putting in a little note to the effect that the depths the club has sunk to do not justify the emotional blackmail in the letter.

USAcanary writes: To be honest I have no idea why ANYBODY would invest in any football club at the moment. So why do you keep hammering on at fans who do not want to leave their rebate with the club. I see my £70 as an investment I do not choose to make. You are beginning to sound quite human!

USAcanary I can''t believe you are for real. Nothing anyone says who was actually at the St Andrew''s Hall meeting seems to bear any credence for you - yet you are happy to believe what you read in the Press and on message boards. You accuse NCISA of spite and damaging the club when it advises fans to keep the club to its word to season ticket holders. Yet, at the same time you say: "I would actually not object to protests/demonstrations to send a message to the board but I personally cannot support suggestions that hurt the club in troubling times". What truly extraordinary logic! The club is trying to attract desperately needed investment - so how would potential investors view a club where protests and demonstrations are drawing the attention of the Press - rather than promoting the generosity of potential investors. NCISA is currently trying to work with the club - not against it. There is no indication that the Board is willing to talk to representatives of the club''s largest fans'' group, so a reminder to Delia and the Michaels that we exist is perhaps best done by telling the club of its legal responsibility to season ticket holders, rather than disrupting games and alienating many fans by protests/demonstrations.

Large amounts of cash going to Sunderland too.

USAcanary, As Mr C says - it''s not a rebate. And when you say: "Other season ticket holders should be allowed to make their own decisions." Has NCISA done anything other than make a recommendation? We assume all members and fans can make up their own minds. NCISA is still working to get together with the Board and other groups. We meet again this week. We all want to get back up - and not just the Championship.

Why did NCISA call for fans to reclaim their rebate USAcanary? Because NCISA called a public meeting at St Andrew''s Hall for all City supporters - rather than host a meaningless forum at the Club a few days after we were relegated with Gunny and the management team facing fed-up fans. Because the night before the public meeting NCISA committee members met and agreed the 3 main topics on which there would be a vote: Gunny''s appointment, confidence (or not) in the Board, and the "rebate". This was agreed by all committee members present. Because the "rebate" issue produced a 75% show of hands at the public meeting in favour of reclaiming the money. Because the following evening the committee met again to agree a statement for the press on the public meeting and what NCISA would be doing next. We agreed to press for a meeting with the Board, to keep contact with all supporters'' groups - and to recommend that fans reclaimed their rebate. All this was in line with the previous night''s public meeting. As you seem to think that John Tilson is running a vendetta against the club - and the rebate recommendation is proof of this, I can tell you that the recommendation came from me. All committee members were present (bar 1) - and I didn''t hear a dissenting voice. My motive? Certainly not spite. Certainly not wanting to bring the club to its knees (they can achieve this without my help). Look at my last post a page or so back..

This thread is beginning to make me feel suicidal........ If NCFC had not got 18,000 fans who were prepared to put their money up front to buy a season ticket for next year, the "rebate" (call it what you will) would not be as much as £600,000. The loyalty of the 18,000 who pledged their money in the first place must have given the club more income than many other League 1 clubs - without the £600,000. But fans are being branded disloyal for wanting what is contractually their money. NCISA is described as being antagonistic towards the club because it has recommended that fans take what they are owed. The reason why I will claim back what is owed on my season ticket is simple: 1) I would like to know what the club''s wages bill is likely to be in 2009-10 compared with last season. 2) I would also like to know what the salary of our new CE is likely to be. 3) And above all, we are going to be playing in League 1. We have a big ground - which will bring in revenue, but apart from that we will be a very ordinary 3rd tier club in terms of what we can afford to pay in transfer fees and wages. I won''t cancel my season ticket - which I would see as disloyal - but I want it at its real cost.

He can have my season ticket rebate to pay his airfare.

Badger, thanks for your reply - and I know I wasn''t exactly concise in my original post! I can''t agree that the NCISA stance is "born of desperation" however - a less desperate gang than the NCISA committee would be hard to find. I would admit to "frustration". This is not just at relegation, it is to do with the lack of communication with the club since the appointment of Bryan Gunn. I shall be forced to start "bring back Neil" campaign - at least he used to reply to my emails!

Badger, you have looked on the NCISA website and been very selective in what you have chosen to quote. The page you quote from reads in full: NCISA was formed by supporters in 1995 during a time of serious crisis which threatened the existence of NCFC. The Association now seeks a successful future for the club and its supporters. Objectives of NCISA (which you quote) To promote good communication and understanding between the club and its supporters. To raise funds to promote NCFC Football Academy. To support projects which secure the future successful development of NCFC. Current Activities (which you did not quote, but which explain how the objectives are being carried out) To organise activities to raise funds for the benefit of the Club with an emphasis on the Youth Academy and to continue sponsorship for a member of the Norwich City management team. This is usually the Assistant Manager and is therefore Lee Clark at the moment. (since Lee Clark left, the sponsorship has passed to Ian Butterworth). Arrange player forums and other events requested by members. (NCISA continues to do this). Organise and run the ever popular “Canary Challenge”. (This is one of NCISA''s main ways of raising money for the sponsorship of the assistant manager and for the Academy). Continual maintenance of regular communication with the NCFC and other ''City'' supporter organisations to promote the football club. (NCISA has maintained consistent contact with the club, which has enabled club personnel and players to appear at forums organised by NCISA. The Committee used to have meetings with members of the board, but these ceased after the board wanted to impose a confidentiality agreement. We are currently seeking a meeting with remaining board members. We have recently had a meeting with Ricky Martin to discuss how a financial contribution by NCISA to the academy can best be targeted. We are also in contact with other supporter organisations). Provide a channel of communication of supporters'' concerns and ideas - tickets, catering, travel arrangements and facilities. (NCISA continues to communicate a range of fans'' concerns to the club, but no longer arranges travel to away games). Development of the NCISA website to promote members involvement. (The website is under constant review). A weekly column in the Pink''Un. (This happens every week of the football season). As part of the remit of NCISA we are also represented on the Football Club’s Supporters Consultative Group, Friends of Norwich City Youth and N.C.F.C. Shareholders’ Association. (NCISA committee members are also members of the Supporters'' Trust). Badger et al: Committee members are all totally committed to NCFC. We do not always agree on everything we discuss at meetings, but the decision to hold the recent forum at St Andrew''s Hall and the subsequent Press releases have been agreed by all of us. We are willing to listen to anyone with a point of view about the football club. We do as much as we can - but do not have unlimited time or funds - so apologise for times when we are slow or inefficient.

I hope they will be slimmer, more informative and cheaper now we are in League 1.