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Morph

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Everything posted by Morph

  1. Crazy, you are so right. For a while now the board has been full of threads that start with promise of debate and degenerate into petty insult throwing. The post that you refer to isn''t one to be proud of. However, there are noters, I name no names, for whom reasoned debate doesn''t seem worthwhile. The proverbial one-line retort that adds nothing to a discussion seems to be the repeated recourse. As to your point about keeping the faithers - the phrase keeping the faith has become synonymous with supporting Worthy come hell or high water. As ZLF and others have so frequently pointed out, everyone of us is a City fan who wants the best for the club and for those who don''t appear to be keeping the faith there is obviously a gulf between what they see on the field of play and their expectations for the team/club. Even if City were top of the division at the moment there would still be those questioning the manager and the team, highlighting the negatives. That is simply because they believe that the negatives can be fixed to make a stronger Norwich City. Unfortunately, there appear to be far too many negatives at the moment that have not been addressed for a lengthy period - from our last promotion season in fact. A little moderation from all posters would be appreciated. AND a little more reasoned fighting for your beliefs would certainly help discussions. We aren''t all going to agree but we can at least agree to argue, constructively, our points of view. ...
  2. always, can I ask, IF the full squad is available between now and Christmas and the club is NOT in the top four but, rather, languishing below mid-table what will you say then? And if the full squad is still NOT available and they''re languishing below mid-table will we get the excuse that the players weren''t available because of injuries? If that is the excuse then with whom does the responsibility lie to cope with the situation where 3/4 injuries lays bare the strength of the squad? I believe at the start of the season after the transfer window had closed Worthy said his squad was strong enough to deal with what possible injury scenarios lay in their path. If that was true, then what has happened that means he can''t cope with the injury situation? ...
  3. [quote]People are basing their views on the whole of this season. The Luton game was not a one off. I still think we should give Worthy until the end of the season but if he does not get us promotion then a...[/quote] Actually BJK I think you would be fairer in saying that some of posters are basing their judgements on more than this one season. Numerous posters have highlighted problems from the Premiership season that are a feature again this season. Why is that?...
  4. I went digging for stats earlier this evening. Here''s what happened to Charlton a club that many of us would be happy for us to emulate. 97/98 1st Divn 4th P46 88pts 98/99 Premiership 18th P38 36pts 99/00 1st Divn 1st P46 91pts 00/01 Premiership 9th P38 52pts 01/02 Premiership 14th P38 44pts 02/03 Premiership 12th P38 49pts 03/04 Premiership 7th P38 53pts 04/05 Premiership 11th P38 46pts So they went up and came straight back down, but bounced straight back at the first attempt in top position no less. Now that''s the sort of progress I want to see from City. ...
  5. For those agreeing with Amarillo on this thread might I ask how long you give Worthy before you say enough is enough? Do you give him the entire season and say that it would be a success to stay up!?! Or are you simply happy that with the squad and talent we have available finishing mid-table is perfectly fine? ZLF, has repeatedly identified the deficiencies that he sees with Worthington and his man-management, team management and so on - and yes remember he does go to games. Several others have highlighted numerous of those deficiencies as well. Where''s the counter arguments from the posters who truly believe that Worthy is the man for the job? The rhetoric we so frequently hear is that "he got us promoted before he can do it again". There''s got to be more than that surely?? Here''s another one - in your eyes has he improved the way City play over the seasons he has been in control? Has he made City a side more readily capable of getting up to the Premiership and staying there? I''ll give him his due he''s brought in some good players but by the same token he''s not always used the talent he''s brought in in the position they are used to playing in. He''s also not found ways to address the issues that some of these talents expose - Huckerby being the prime example and the weakening of the left side of midfield when Hucks plays there. I''m as frustrated as the next supporter about the season. And yes we''re only 4 points of the playoff spots, but we can''t keep kidding ourselves that if we all "hope" it will come right that it will. Something needs to change, even if that change is Worthy is given a rocket by the board and an ultimatum that he has "x" more games to sort it out or he receives his P45. ...
  6. Well after last night''s result there are more posters requesting a change, but what is the cost of getting a replacement manager? If Worthy is sacked does the club have to pay off the rest of his contract? Is that true if the club consider him to be in breach of his contract with the club? Surely the club only has to pay off Worthy if they asked him to leave? Then the follow up question would be what would the club have to pay in compensation to get the replacement? Allen at Brentford for example, surely they''d want money for taking away the manager. To me all the managers you would want are in jobs. Why would the club want to bring in someone who doesn''t have a job? To many of the posters here the writing is on the wall from their perspective, but is it really that simple from a board perspective? ...
  7. OK, so what''s the difference between Wigan''s current progress and our season back in the Premiership. Why are they doing so well?...
  8. At last some semblance of debate. This board has become tedious of late due to the lack of debate. Too many posts of the nature "you can''t be a City fan if all you do is whinge". The people that have complained are backing up their comments with reasons. For those of you who have counter arguments to why Saturday was a good result and why Worthy is doing a good job be decent enough to justify why you think those things are true, rather than throwing out the normal rhetoric that all the "moaners" are closet binners. Those posters are not closet binners - they''re no less City fans than the KTFers or the pro-Worthy camp, they just want and expect more than is being given at the moment. Here''s the definition of debate from Websters dictionary - "a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal". Sadly, it''s something this board has been lacking for some time. ...
  9. [quote]You can''t leave it alone can you Dicky? The posters who said they would boo were a very smallgrouping within the much larger unhappy sector. You don''t have to love Worthy or agree totally with what ...[/quote] First off, great, another win! A much needed win but is another mere band-aid.Cambridge, a most eloquent repost to one of our more blinkered posters.Just because some of the posters are more negative about the club than you Dicky, doesn''t make them any less a supporter of Norwich City. They obviously want, and, expect a little more from the club....
  10. The divide between the posters seems even more clearly defined now that 10 games of the season are past. His detractors have tried to enumerate on numerous occassions what it is they see wrong with the club under Worthy if it is possible to see past the "yellow and green" tinted derision that accompanies their notes.So for the sake of a little clarity, if you''re in the category of noters that can be classed as Worthy''s detractors what is it that Worthy needs to do to appease you?Or is it simply that he has already taken us as far as he can?...
  11. [quote]im not going to cop out at all Mad Dan. Both yourself and Dicky have challenged my opinion and i am responding. Ok, i will say lets sack Worthington. The reason i said Wait until the game starts, see...[/quote] jas, sorry but I have to correct on one point here. Worthy''s comment about the fans was in response to a comment from Chris Goreham on his decision to substitute McVeigh and how it didn''t sit well with the fans. Worthy quite rightly pointed out that it was nothing to do with the fans what substitutions he made it was down to him and his coaching staff. However, it has been quoted out of context in such a way that it appears as if Worthington is slagging the fans off. His crime was simply his use of words. It could be argued that we have inflicted a bigger crime upon Worthy by mis-representing and mis-interpreting the words he used. Unfortunately what''s done is done and his comments may well be the rope to hang him with. ...
  12. As a comparison here''s the first ten results of the promotion season. League Championship Bradford 2-2 Norwich 09-08-2003 League Cup Northampton 1-0 Norwich 12-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Rotherham 16-08-2003 League Championship Sheff Utd 1-0 Norwich 23-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Milton Keynes 26-08-2003 League Championship Nottm Forest 2-0 Norwich 30-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Burnley 13-09-2003 League Championship Gillingham 1-2 Norwich 16-09-2003 League Championship Stoke 1-1 Norwich 20-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 C Palace 27-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Reading 30-09-2003 So from 10 league games City were on: Pl:10 W:5 D:2 L:3 GF:16 GA:11 Pts:17 Compare that to this season and City are on: Pl:10 W:2 D:3 L:5 GF:8 GA:11 Pts:9 On the promotion season form we would be sitting in 5th place. And SteveM, history doesn''t count for anything when the team is performing as they currently are. They are quite simply underacheiving at present. Collectively the team and coaching staff has to shoulder the blame. Admittedly booing the team will not help, but for those who pay their £20+ for their tickets they''re looking for something from the product, which by all accounts, is not what they''re getting. The worrying thing from my perspective is that the long running problems that some posters here have so eloquently described, see ZLFs posts, have not been addressed in all the time that Worthy has been at the club. It''s taken some 10 games of this season before the issue of the central defensive partnership gets seriously looked at. ...
  13. Actually to be fair to Worthy (not that I''m a fan) this is being taken a little bit out of context. From the interview the words are: Goreham: Substitutions in the second half, Paul McVeigh came off. Some of the fans didn''t seem too happy about that. Worthington: I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge. I make decisions with the coaching staff and that''s as straight forward and as simple as that. In the context of Goreham poser, Worthy''s answer is what you would expect. As Dicky pointed out Worthy is the man responsible for the team selection, tactics and substitutions, NOT the fans. Worthy and his staff made the decision to take McVeigh off. 24000 might not have agreed but as Worthy points out they''re opinion in this particular matter - doesn''t matter. Unfortunately for Worthington, as a sound bite, the quote "I''m not bothered about what the fans say. I''m in charge" is what is being reiterated. Taken out of it''s context it does seem to be quite a scathing, unfeeling attack on the fans from the man in charge. Combined with Goreham''s comment it Is no such thing. And for the record I would not consider myself one of the Worthy fan brigade. ...
  14. So after yesterday''s result and the post-match comments has Worthy finally crossed that crucial divide between being in a job and being out of one? ...
  15. OK, I''ve played quite a bit of local league soccer in my time, including several seasons in one of the local Yarmouth leagues. I wouldn''t say I''ve been coached other than by the various PE teachers at school, but when the various parties at City roll out the phrase "We need to get back to basics" what do they mean?Some fundamental basics to me:1. Pass to a person on your team when you''re in possession of the ball.2. Close down your opponent.3. Make a tackle when you''re in a position to do so.4. Move into space so your team-mates can pass to you.5. Attack the ball when challenging for crosses/high balls and so on.6. Don''t wait for the ball to bounce when it comes to you in the air.7. Play to the whistle - e.g. carry on and shoot even if you think you may have been off-side.8. Try to commit the opposition - running at an opponent tends to pull players out of position just as easily as movement off the ball.9. Don''t lose possession through poor control.Some team fundamentals:1. Maintain your set "x" lines going forward and tracking back.2. Don''t defend too deep.3. Move forward as a unit/move back as a unit - "x" lines up together, "x" lines back together.4. Don''t space your "x" lines (attackers, midfield, defenders) too far apart on the pitch - in other words attempt to compress the play.I''ve raised the question because I sat watching the coverage of the Plymouth game and whilst we won there were a couple of stand out things that struck me.a) too much space between the "x" linesb) the team didn''t move forward as a unit or back as unit - numerous times the space between midfield and attack was stretched or defense and midfieldc) not much movement into space to create passing opportunities - whilst you can argue the second goal came about after 16 passes I wouldn''t argue it was down to players being pulled out of position by great off the ball movement or incisive passing, more it was down to poor defending and a damned good cross d) didn''t see much tackling going on in the midfield to reclaim possession when it was lost - poor control by City players yes, poor passing maybe but tackling back, umm.What about the rest of you - what basics from your past are City not doing at the moment?...
  16. Here''s another name to consider although I''ll probably be locked in a cupboard and considered a closet Blues supporter............. Terry Butcher ...
  17. The posting populace still seems split over the managerial/coaching/team make-up of the club, but I want to know, from both sides of the house, where you draw the line with regards to making a change in the managerial/coaching staff.Many are saying they''ll back Worthington regardless this season. Others say he must go now. Some remain in between giving him until Christmas to turn things around. But how do you really feel?If we go on a run that sees us win 1 in every 3 matches is that good enough?If we continue the slide into lower table obscurity do you consider that acceptable?If we finish mid-table has enough been done?I''ve seen the words "small steps" bandied about by a number of posters with regard to progress from the club. Other''s have said one step forward, two steps backwards.From the perspective of a remote supporter who just sees the results and the subsequent tabular position of the club, I feel we''ve taken a huge step backwards. I expected us to be capable of staying up last year with the squad that had been put together. Even with the huge playing staff turnover at the start of this season I really did expect the club to be competitive. We''re not and unfortunately the buck really does stop at Worthington''s door irrespective of whether he solely to blame.So if you''re in Delia''s shoes, or Munby''s shoes or Wynn-Jones''s shoes, where do you draw the line? Top half by Christmas or you''re out the door Mr Worthington? Or simply make us competitive again and avoid relegation? Or is are you more harsh and think Mr Worthington you have three more games to show that you can handle the painful aspects of the job and know what to do to change things?...
  18. [quote]Sonyc I agree with everything you said (have said pretty much the same thing elsewhere) but your final prediction causes me some concern - if, sorry....IF we beat Ipswich that will merely confirm NW i...[/quote] breaker, the big worry for me is that City do beat Ipswich and the cracks are plastered over once more until we get another run of three or more defeats. An Ipswich victory is most likely to be the end of Worthy whether he wants it or not. And ronbol, whilst I realise nobody is coming up with any real concrete suggestions for a replacement keeping NW in position seems to merely delaying the inevitable unless of course, he can really turn it around. There has to be someone who would relish the chance to get their hands on the squad we have. Watford''s Boothroyd - would he come back given the way Watford are playing Luton''s Newell - flying high in the Championship at present Swansea''s Jackett - doing well in League One Brentford''s Allen - also doing well in League One Blackburn''s Bowen - although currently only assistant ...
  19. [quote]Plastic scouser it''s not a matter of defending the guy, he puts a Norwich City shirt on, always gives 100% even if it'' not good enough on occasions. Most think he''s not upto the job and I respect your...[/quote] "If you have ever been upto colney and watched them training you would soon see flem is one of the hardest training players there, a true professional." Not maligning your comment in any way Ronbol, but to me the line above is the telling one. It worries me that NW puts too much faith on what goes on in training during the week and then goes on to ignore a player''s matchday performances. If a player doesn''t cut repeatedly on the field of play then that player should be rested to give someone else a chance. Who''s to say that McVeigh wasn''t dropped because he didn''t put in the effort in Monday''s training session and got left out last night because of it. ...
  20. [quote]I agree: constructive criticism good, mindless ranting bad. Getting things off your chest on this board good, booing the team at the ground bad. Maintaining some consistency in your views good (hi ZLF...[/quote] Actually RobertinManilla, might I ask what you expected the results to be for the first six games of this season? Expectations have unfortunately been raised as a result of the "success" of the last two years - Champions in 2003/04, into the Premiership through 2004/05. That''s irrespective of what some supporters have identified as weaknesses in the team - ZLF, has been consistent in his analysis of what he perceives is wrong. So it''s no surprise to me that some posters are a little unhappy here about the start to the season. Reading the forum during the summer months there were several posters who already had City pencilled in as 2005/06 Champions. As you rightly point out this division is harder to get out of than many people think. The over-riding question though is where has it all gone wrong? Is it simply that existing problems that were papered over in 2003/04 and 2004/05 have finally come home to roost? A dispassionate analysis of the team''s play over the six games this season would be appreciated by those of us who can''t get to watch the games - and I emphasise dispassionate analysis. ...
  21. [quote]Ok. Things are awful. And yes we are depressed. But let us do a Kipling and keep our heads when all about are losing theirs! There is too much panicky stuff at present. (and yes I do see why) Howev...[/quote] Vic, I think the telling match will be the match against Ipswich. To lose in a humiliating fashion to the local rivals could sound the death knell for Mr Worthington. As it stands he needs to do something to get the ship back on track before he loses the confidence of the players. He''s already losing the confidence of the supporters. If it continues I don''t think it will be long before the players begin to doubt him. ...
  22. [quote]The reasons Worthy shouldn''t go are not because of what he''s done (that''s in the past, no room for sentimentality in football) but because it''s too late, too costly and too bold a move for our board t...[/quote] Actually I disagree with your comments. Football is now a business. When the product becomes difficult to sell - poor performances, poor results and the like, then the managers of that business, the club''s board, are left with the decision on whether or not they change the product. As it stands Worthington is currently a part of producing that product. In fact I would say he is integral to the product. When the product becomes not fit for the purpose, "entertainment", then something has to change. In football, the easiest change to make is to bring in a new manager to add some fresh life to that failing product. The product currently on offer is clearly leaving a sour taste in some supporters mouths, "loyal" supporters and/or otherwise. What''s the quote so often bandied about - the only thing certain in life is death and taxes. Worthy does not have a god given right to a job with the club if he''s not producing the goods. So don''t go thinking that Worthy will alwsys be there. If the board is serious about the club then there will come a point where his future WILL be debated. And by the way why is it too late and too costly to consider changing the manager? ...
  23. [quote]Ok so most players desperate for a move have already gone, I think we know we would have to look to lower league talent to bulk out the squad and I think given that Morrison is going to palace we need...[/quote] You know what happened last time he hurried to bring in a centre half. We got one and played him as a centre forward!!!! ...
  24. [quote]Can no one remember the beautiful passing football we played under this mans sadly all to short reign. The quality signing that he brought in the club will always take some beating. If only he''d staye...[/quote] Don''t want to say it Rasputin but some time down the road there may be a note along the lines of: "Can no one remember the beautiful passing football we played under Worthy''s reign and how we capitulated to our fate and sealed our relegation with that woeful showing at Fulham on the last day of the Premiership season. The quality signings that he brought to the club will always be remembered, for their inability to adapt, their falling out with the manager and their playing in positions they were completely unfamiliar with. If only he''d stayed maybe we would have bounced straight back at the first attempt, but it''s all water under the bridge now." ...
  25. I wondered how long before that O''Neill''s name came up. Personally I think he''s the sort of manager that could take City to the next level. Tactically astute. A man who seems to get something more out of a team than the sum of it''s parts. Some would argue he''s had success at a club that has had cash to splash and in a league that many would describe as a pale imitation of the English Premiership, but we must not forget that he has managed to bring some level of success in Europe. However, he''s left the game at the moment for personal reasons so persuading him to come back into management might well prove to be difficult. ...
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