Morph

Beds, just one word. SUPERB!

[quote user="rainbowchaser"] i still think that we should give the team four more games to get it sorted with a target of 8 points. if we do not achieve this then we have to be radical and change not only the managment structure but the playing staff as well. meantime lets get behind the team and hope that we can get back to winning ways! [/quote] I have to ask rainbowchaser, if in those four games we don''t get the target 8 points does somebody get the boot? From my remote perspective Worthy et al have had more than enough "four game" chances to sort this mess out and nothing has happened. Lots of the normal talk about work rate and missed chances but it ain''t happening. How much more keeping the faith do the doubters have to put up with. ...

[quote]allways, I''m going to take issue with the words you use. "I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways seen by the level of support he has been getting." Actua...[/quote] Ooops! Amazing what a difference a missing "N" and "T" make to a comment."Actually I think you''ll find the fans come to see the team. Who is in charge has little to do with it. 25000 AREN''T coming through the turnstiles because Worthy is sitting in the dugout. It''s what the team doing on the field that matters."...

[quote]I take on board lots of your comments and its nice not to get abused from someone who is of the worthy out brigade.I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways s...[/quote] allways, I''m going to take issue with the words you use. "I allways think a good indication of how well the manager has been doing is allways seen by the level of support he has been getting." Actually I think you''ll find the fans come to see the team. Who is in charge has little to do with it. 25000 are coming through the turnstiles because Worthy is sitting in the dugout. It''s what the team doing on the field that matters. Whilst Worthy may be responsible for how they are playing it''s the team the fans come to see. In the last couple of seasons the fans have been buoyed by the football on show. The question remains will it continue under the current conditions? You have to remember as well, that the "fan" base was boosted in the Premiership season simply by virtue of the fact that you had the "hangers-on" who came to Carrow Road sporting their Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal jerseys. Whilst numbers may drop if the bad run continues there are still are large proportion of fans who will still attend because they are, like Dicky and others, Norwich to the core. I''ll admit that Worthy has done well for the club, but from many a Worthy-outer he is being judged on the teams'' current run of results and that goes a long way to undoing the good reputation he has built up. The core fans will continue to come to Carrow Road whether Worthy stays or goes because fundamentally it is Norwich City, the football team, they are there to see! ...

But DD don''t we miss out the midfield when we play the big hoof. Clearly with the big hoof we need defenders who can perfect the big hoof, Primus, and strikers who can run their guts out trying to get on to the big hoof, Eastwood. Clearly that UEFA coaching badge comes in handy when instructing your team on how best to play the long ball up to the strikers. ...

Do you worst folks!! League Championship Bradford 2-2 Norwich 09-08-2003 English League Cup Northampton 1-0 Norwich 12-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Rotherham 16-08-2003 League Championship Sheff Utd 1-0 Norwich 23-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Milton Keynes 26-08-2003 League Championship Nottm Forest 2-0 Norwich 30-08-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Burnley 13-09-2003 League Championship Gillingham 1-2 Norwich 16-09-2003 League Championship Stoke 1-1 Norwich 20-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 C Palace 27-09-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Reading 30-09-2003 League Championship Wigan 1-1 Norwich 04-10-2003 League Championship West Ham 1-1 Norwich 15-10-2003 League Championship West Brom 1-0 Norwich 18-10-2003 League Championship Norwich 2-1 Derby 21-10-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Sunderland 25-10-2003 League Championship Walsall 1-3 Norwich 01-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 3-1 Millwall 08-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-2 Watford 15-11-2003 League Championship Preston 0-0 Norwich 22-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-1 Coventry 25-11-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Crewe 29-11-2003 League Championship Millwall 0-0 Norwich 06-12-2003 League Championship Norwich 4-1 Cardiff 13-12-2003 League Championship Ipswich 0-2 Norwich 21-12-2003 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Nottm Forest 26-12-2003 League Championship Derby 0-4 Norwich 28-12-2003 English FA Cup Everton 3-1 Norwich 03-01-2004 League Championship Norwich 0-1 Bradford 10-01-2004 League Championship Rotherham 4-4 Norwich 17-01-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Sheff Utd 31-01-2004 League Championship Milton Keynes 0-1 Norwich 07-02-2004 League Championship Coventry 0-2 Norwich 14-02-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-1 West Ham 21-02-2004 League Championship Norwich 0-0 West Brom 02-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-1 Ipswich 07-03-2004 League Championship Cardiff 2-1 Norwich 13-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-0 Gillingham 16-03-2004 League Championship C Palace 1-0 Norwich 20-03-2004 League Championship Norwich 1-0 Stoke 27-03-2004 League Championship Burnley 3-5 Norwich 03-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 2-0 Wigan 09-04-2004 League Championship Reading 0-1 Norwich 12-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 5-0 Walsall 17-04-2004 League Championship Watford 1-2 Norwich 24-04-2004 League Championship Norwich 3-2 Preston 01-05-2004 League Championship Sunderland 1-0 Norwich 04-05-2004 League Championship Crewe 1-3 Norwich 09-05-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-1 C Palace 14-08-2004 English Premier Man Utd 2-1 Norwich 21-08-2004 English Premier Newcastle 2-2 Norwich 25-08-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-4 Arsenal 28-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-0 Norwich 12-09-2004 English Premier Norwich 0-0 Aston Villa 18-09-2004 English League Cup Norwich 1-0 Bristol R 21-09-2004 English Premier Liverpool 3-0 Norwich 25-09-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-2 Portsmouth 02-10-2004 English Premier West Brom 0-0 Norwich 16-10-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-3 Everton 23-10-2004 English League Cup Newcastle 2-1 Norwich 27-10-2004 English Premier Man City 1-1 Norwich 01-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 1-1 Blackburn 06-11-2004 English Premier Charlton 4-0 Norwich 13-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 2-1 Southampton 20-11-2004 English Premier Birmingham 1-1 Norwich 27-11-2004 English Premier Norwich 0-1 Fulham 04-12-2004 English Premier Norwich 3-2 Bolton 11-12-2004 E

[quote]is get behind the team. The board is sticking with Worthy and this is not going to change in the near future. So why don''t we get behind the players and be that "12th man" that has done us so much g...[/quote] Dicky, I don''t disagree with you on getting behind the team. However, I do have to ask at what point do you as a supporter say "enough is enough", something is not right here and it needs to change for the sake of the club I hold so dear? If we get relegated would you turn around and say we could have made a change back in November and stopped this from happening? If we just miss out on relegation do you consider that the club is progressing, given that we''ve just had one season in the top flight? How can any of be happy that we''ve come so far only to fall so fast? Sure cheer the team on with all your voice but there''s nothing wrong in asking why has it all gone so pear shaped? ...

Pete, why not reset the poll each week before the kick-off of the next game. Keep the cumulative totals rolling along in the background but you get a week by week snapshot of the way fans are feeling. You could even plot the Worthy pro-rating against City''s league position ;-) ...

Pete, have considered implementing some kind of Worthy/fan barometer? Have a continuous poll that indicates the "popular" opinion on how the team or Worthy is doing. ...

[quote]Anyone thats ever employed anyone looks at their CV and what theyve done, before deciding to give them a job. Ever been to an interview and wondered why you didn,t get picked?[/quote] Darlo, don''t disagree that it''s the CV that you look at when you''re looking to get into a job or recruit someone. But it''s what you do when you''re there that means you stay in the job or not. And TwoSheds is right, it''s not what Worthy has done over the last three years it''s what he''s doing now that would lose him the job. Yes, he got us to the playoff final. Yes, he got us promotion as champions. Yes, he got us relegated. Yes, he''s turned promotion favourites into a bunch of no-hopers. Surely it''s this last bit that is the killer. ...

[quote]Most if not all of your posts publically condemn worthy as if he is public enemy number one.Do you honestly think he is that bad.in all worthys time at this club would you not say he has had a lot of ...[/quote] allways, I''d agree that we have a great deal to be thankful to Worthy for. And for their part the injuries are not helping the plight of the team at the moment. However, I would argue that he does have players available, albeit more junior, in the positions where injuries have hit. He continues to play players in positions that they are not used to: Charlton in the holding role normally played in by Safri Brennan at left-back whilst more suited to the left side of midfield role Plus he continues to ignore players in the reserves that could fill in. Why not give Rossi Jarvis a chance if his more natural role is central midfield. What worse could he do compared to the fare on show at Luton and QPR? And yes I realise we''re going to get the usual stuff about what would it do the youngsters confidence just like we had with Shackell. At the moment it''s all bull because the team/squad needs a lift. Bring in a new face instead of the usual tripe. Let''s face it Worthy''s confidence is shot. He''s tried all the tricks he knows and still the players let him down. The player''s confidence is probably beginning to tatter as well given they can''t see any guiding direction from the gaffer. Saturday will be the killer game. A win and the cracks are papered over once more. A loss and hell knows what sort of reception the boss and players will get. ...

Go buy a cheap batch GTG and then when it becomes too unbearable throw them on the pitch!!! ...

[quote]The thing that is wrong this season in my opinion is expectations, let''s face it this season is the first year in ages when the players have been EXPECTED to perform. Last year we were expected to get...[/quote] Ulf, how can you say the expectations were wrong. The team had just come off a run of games against Premiership opposition that almost saved their Premiership status. Look at who they got points against:English Premier Norwich 2-0 Man Utd 09-04-2005 English Premier C Palace 3-3 Norwich 16-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 2-1 Newcastle 20-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 1-0 Charlton 23-04-2005 English Premier Southampton 4-3 Norwich 30-04-2005 English Premier Norwich 1-0 Birmingham 07-05-2005 English Premier Fulham 6-0 Norwich 15-05-2005 Come on we took points off of Man U and Newcastle as well as crucial wins against teams that are more firmly rooted in the Premiership. Apart from the capitulation on the last day there was something to be hopeful about.Even with the off-season personnel changes there was a belief that promotion wasn''t beyond the team. But the truth of the matter is something clearly more chilling....

Hats off to you Dicky you''ve come out and been honest about what you''ve seen and honestly don''t know what''s to be done.Personally, I think the players have lost confidence in the manager for whatever reasons. There''s nothing worse than going into work hearing the same rhetoric from the man in charge and beginning to feel, yourself, that it ain''t worth it. Come on how many of us have felt like that at work?I think Worthy has to go, unfortunately. Yes, he''s done great for the club but he doesn''t appear to be able to do anything to spark some life back into the team. We''re still lacking that player leader in the Malky mould. Can''t imagine Hughes having the physical presence to give the team a good rollicking in the changing room.A new face at the helm often changes the mindset of the players. Some could argue that''s what Worthington brought when he first took over. It got the team rolling again and they simply carried on in the same vein. Unfortunately we''ve now got the other side of the coin and they''ve got into the losing habit and the go out "work hard" it''ll all come good isn''t cutting it anymore.As I said in other posts I think the cost issue is going to be the stumbling block here, unless Worthy willingly leaves. He''s currently a general prepared to do battle who has an army that couldn''t care less....

[quote]Rick Waghorn set it all out in his column of 17 September: http://new.pinkun.com/content/columns/RickWaghorn.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=RickWaghorn&tBrand=PINKUNOnline&tCategory=Ric...[/quote] After today''s result and another 3 points down the pan I think the cost of getting a new manager is going to be the telling factor in all of this.Thanks to Amarillo for highlighting Waghorn''s original article on this. I reckon it''s going to cost the club about £1M to terminate Worthy''s contract. Clearly if he voluntarily parts company with the club it should cost the club nothing or less, but I don''t think that is going to happen.Twin that with the cost of bringing in someone who may already be in a job and I think the January transfer window wouldn''t be able to offer a new manager anything due to the lack of funds. Unless of course there''s money to reinvest from player sales - another nightmare scenario.My apologies to those who suffer the insults that this thread holds, but the question is once more of importance given another loss.Sheff Wed at home next Saturday will be the make or break game....

[quote]I just finished posting about this on another thread seconds ago, I have a little read of this one and again see zipper of the "kick posting abuse out" signature slagging off anyone who backs the mana...[/quote] Sorry Crazy I''m going to defend Zip on that one. There are too many of the "Worthy backers" who cannot be bothered to explain the reasons why they believe the man is going to get the club back into the promotion race. Or even explain why they think he''s doing a good job. Instead they grace a discussion with a simple one-line retort as their counter argument. That really is tiring to read. I can guarantee to come on here at 10pm every evening to find a multitude of threads that have been added to with simple one-line retorts that add nothing to the discussion other than to "fire" up the posters who have posted the opposing view. The divide between the "believers" and "unbelievers" is simply growing with every match the team loses. And it''s not just here on the message board. ...

Crazy, you are so right. For a while now the board has been full of threads that start with promise of debate and degenerate into petty insult throwing. The post that you refer to isn''t one to be proud of. However, there are noters, I name no names, for whom reasoned debate doesn''t seem worthwhile. The proverbial one-line retort that adds nothing to a discussion seems to be the repeated recourse. As to your point about keeping the faithers - the phrase keeping the faith has become synonymous with supporting Worthy come hell or high water. As ZLF and others have so frequently pointed out, everyone of us is a City fan who wants the best for the club and for those who don''t appear to be keeping the faith there is obviously a gulf between what they see on the field of play and their expectations for the team/club. Even if City were top of the division at the moment there would still be those questioning the manager and the team, highlighting the negatives. That is simply because they believe that the negatives can be fixed to make a stronger Norwich City. Unfortunately, there appear to be far too many negatives at the moment that have not been addressed for a lengthy period - from our last promotion season in fact. A little moderation from all posters would be appreciated. AND a little more reasoned fighting for your beliefs would certainly help discussions. We aren''t all going to agree but we can at least agree to argue, constructively, our points of view. ...

always, can I ask, IF the full squad is available between now and Christmas and the club is NOT in the top four but, rather, languishing below mid-table what will you say then? And if the full squad is still NOT available and they''re languishing below mid-table will we get the excuse that the players weren''t available because of injuries? If that is the excuse then with whom does the responsibility lie to cope with the situation where 3/4 injuries lays bare the strength of the squad? I believe at the start of the season after the transfer window had closed Worthy said his squad was strong enough to deal with what possible injury scenarios lay in their path. If that was true, then what has happened that means he can''t cope with the injury situation? ...

[quote]People are basing their views on the whole of this season. The Luton game was not a one off. I still think we should give Worthy until the end of the season but if he does not get us promotion then a...[/quote] Actually BJK I think you would be fairer in saying that some of posters are basing their judgements on more than this one season. Numerous posters have highlighted problems from the Premiership season that are a feature again this season. Why is that?...

I went digging for stats earlier this evening. Here''s what happened to Charlton a club that many of us would be happy for us to emulate. 97/98 1st Divn 4th P46 88pts 98/99 Premiership 18th P38 36pts 99/00 1st Divn 1st P46 91pts 00/01 Premiership 9th P38 52pts 01/02 Premiership 14th P38 44pts 02/03 Premiership 12th P38 49pts 03/04 Premiership 7th P38 53pts 04/05 Premiership 11th P38 46pts So they went up and came straight back down, but bounced straight back at the first attempt in top position no less. Now that''s the sort of progress I want to see from City. ...

For those agreeing with Amarillo on this thread might I ask how long you give Worthy before you say enough is enough? Do you give him the entire season and say that it would be a success to stay up!?! Or are you simply happy that with the squad and talent we have available finishing mid-table is perfectly fine? ZLF, has repeatedly identified the deficiencies that he sees with Worthington and his man-management, team management and so on - and yes remember he does go to games. Several others have highlighted numerous of those deficiencies as well. Where''s the counter arguments from the posters who truly believe that Worthy is the man for the job? The rhetoric we so frequently hear is that "he got us promoted before he can do it again". There''s got to be more than that surely?? Here''s another one - in your eyes has he improved the way City play over the seasons he has been in control? Has he made City a side more readily capable of getting up to the Premiership and staying there? I''ll give him his due he''s brought in some good players but by the same token he''s not always used the talent he''s brought in in the position they are used to playing in. He''s also not found ways to address the issues that some of these talents expose - Huckerby being the prime example and the weakening of the left side of midfield when Hucks plays there. I''m as frustrated as the next supporter about the season. And yes we''re only 4 points of the playoff spots, but we can''t keep kidding ourselves that if we all "hope" it will come right that it will. Something needs to change, even if that change is Worthy is given a rocket by the board and an ultimatum that he has "x" more games to sort it out or he receives his P45. ...

Well after last night''s result there are more posters requesting a change, but what is the cost of getting a replacement manager? If Worthy is sacked does the club have to pay off the rest of his contract? Is that true if the club consider him to be in breach of his contract with the club? Surely the club only has to pay off Worthy if they asked him to leave? Then the follow up question would be what would the club have to pay in compensation to get the replacement? Allen at Brentford for example, surely they''d want money for taking away the manager. To me all the managers you would want are in jobs. Why would the club want to bring in someone who doesn''t have a job? To many of the posters here the writing is on the wall from their perspective, but is it really that simple from a board perspective? ...

OK, so what''s the difference between Wigan''s current progress and our season back in the Premiership. Why are they doing so well?...

At last some semblance of debate. This board has become tedious of late due to the lack of debate. Too many posts of the nature "you can''t be a City fan if all you do is whinge". The people that have complained are backing up their comments with reasons. For those of you who have counter arguments to why Saturday was a good result and why Worthy is doing a good job be decent enough to justify why you think those things are true, rather than throwing out the normal rhetoric that all the "moaners" are closet binners. Those posters are not closet binners - they''re no less City fans than the KTFers or the pro-Worthy camp, they just want and expect more than is being given at the moment. Here''s the definition of debate from Websters dictionary - "a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal". Sadly, it''s something this board has been lacking for some time. ...

[quote]You can''t leave it alone can you Dicky? The posters who said they would boo were a very smallgrouping within the much larger unhappy sector. You don''t have to love Worthy or agree totally with what ...[/quote] First off, great, another win! A much needed win but is another mere band-aid.Cambridge, a most eloquent repost to one of our more blinkered posters.Just because some of the posters are more negative about the club than you Dicky, doesn''t make them any less a supporter of Norwich City. They obviously want, and, expect a little more from the club....