How bad does it have to get

[John tree 0]

Before they get shot of Adams?

Are they waiting until it is impossible to get into the playoffs or until we slip into the relegation zone.

Clearly there is much more wrong with the club than phelan can fix.

I just can''t see what they are waiting for in terms of pulling the trigger

[Herman 11,136]

You really are tiresome.

[John tree 0]

[quote user="Herman "]You really are tiresome.[/quote]

That means a lot coming from you

[Herman 11,136]

No worries.

Simply we don''t know. Nobody knows. Asking the same question over and over will not get you an answer in this case.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Not too sure why you describe John''s post as ''tiresome'', Herman.It is a perfectly reasonable point of view , shared as it is seemingly by many.I''d agree it''s difficult to give a definitive answer, but, maybe the evidence of last season offers a few clues. Depressingly , the suspicion therefore is that it''s got to get a whole lot worse before the board take some decisive action to remedy their failures......

[nutty nigel 7,902]

But of course the evidence of last season also offers the clues that making the change would sove nothing. That''s the trouble with evidence...

 

 

[John tree 0]

The point is relevant as the agm is this week someone needs to raise the issue of succession planning and investment in the future. That said I doubt anyone will have the balls to do it.

[lake district canary 4,831]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

But of course the evidence of last season also offers the clues that making the change would sove nothing. That''s the trouble with evidence...

[/quote]

What evidence was that?   The manager wasn''t changed until it was too late to see if it would change anything........

I supported the decision to keep him on but wouldn''t have been surprised to see him gone in November or January.  If we had changed at either of those times...who knows what might have happened? 

[:^)]

[JF 694]

I don''t think you can use last seasons change that came about 4 months too late as evidence. We could have given Mourinho with Wenger as assistant the job at that point and still been relegated!

[Herman 11,136]

Because it''s Waveney and it''s terribly whiny that''s why I find it tiresome Reggie.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Well surely the evidence is that here we are in November with the same people calling for change. There were many people predicting such a scenario last season and the evidence of previous changes at this and other clubs suggest they were right.

[JF 694]

On the evidence based on last season the people saying Hughton should have gone by xmas or we would go down got it spot on. Unless Phelan has a massive impact we won''t trouble the play off places this season. We look like a mid table team and with this squad that is unacceptable.

[lake district canary 4,831]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Well surely the evidence is that here we are in November with the same people calling for change. There were many people predicting such a scenario last season and the evidence of previous changes at this and other clubs suggest they were right.[/quote]

The problem I have with it is that last season we had a manager who was respected for his top flight coaching abilities throughout football, had managed at the top level and been successful as a manager in the championship too.   That experience and know how indicated to me that we  were probably better off  sticking with him.  Adams doesn''t have that experience and when you have to make a judgement as to why he should stay or go when things atren''t going well........well, there is not much to latch on to.  

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="JF"]On the evidence based on last season the people saying Hughton should have gone by xmas or we would go down got it spot on. Unless Phelan has a massive impact we won''t trouble the play off places this season. We look like a mid table team and with this squad that is unacceptable.[/quote]Spot on.Not really sure what twisted logic Nutty is using in his first contribution to this thread. Normally he''s one who demands everything to be evidence based, but now he''s saying that the evidence of last season, stark as it is, is flawed. Double standards at work here?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Regardless of all that the same people are calling for another manager to be sacked even though the evidence at our club and others is that within a year the same scenario will happen again and again. The Lambert years were fantastic but that is not the norm and its unlikely we have another Lambert appointment for a while. Or that''s what the evidence at this club and others points to.

So the board are apparently trying to lay foundaions to go a different way. A change has been made but before the new coach has arrived the same people are baying and wailing for another change. Why not see how this one works out?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So the board are apparently trying to lay foundaions to go a different way. A change has been made but before the new coach has arrived the same people are baying and wailing for another change. Why not see how this one works out?[/quote]Quite simple, dear Nigel, to answer that one.This club really does not have the time to sit and twiddle its collective thumbs while we wait and see whether the board''s folly/experiment/masterstroke (delete as appropriate) actually ''works out''.

[John tree 0]

The die is cast the fans have turned it is now time for a new direction

[JF 694]

Good call NN. We should just accept mid to lower table mediocrity in a season that represented our best chance of a return to the top flight. A decent manager that we could have easily attracted in our situation in this league would have this squad seriously challenging. Adams has us 16th in the form table over the last 10 games. It''s not good enough and the only direction this ill advised experiment is going is downwards. Phelan will need to earn every penny to turn this around.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

That''s your simple answer Reggie. But the past evidence at this club and others strongly suggests these imperative sackings will continue to go around in circles until we finally get another Lambert scenario. So we may aswell give phelan a chance. there is no evidence that the next appointment will be better than what we have. It could be. But theres as much evidence to suggest it will be worse.

[pete 371]

Based on the evidence before our eyes which is all we have to base our appraisal. It will get worse Adams makes the same selection mistakes and doesn''t learn from them. Johnson very poor and Jerome/Grabban cannot work as a pairing.

[JF 694]

That is true Nutty but in our situation this season didn''t have to be that way. This season we were the big fish in the league, widely accepted as having the best squad with finances that the majority of clubs could only dream of.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s your simple answer Reggie. But the past evidence at this club and others strongly suggests these imperative sackings will continue to go around in circles until we finally get another Lambert scenario. So we may aswell give phelan a chance. there is no evidence that the next appointment will be better than what we have. It could be. But theres as much evidence to suggest it will be worse.[/quote]Don''t think anyone has an issue with Phelan, NN. It''s Adams that we have the problem with. Him, and this board who stupidly appointed him in the first place.

[Highland Canary 78]

Had we employed Warnock last Christmas we would still be in the Premier League rather than watching the board make the same mistake two seasons in a row.

[Herman 11,136]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Had we employed Warnock last Christmas we would still be in the Premier League rather than watching the board make the same mistake two seasons in a row.[/quote]His record in the Premiership means that we would likely be in the same position we are currently in.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Well if you got your way there would be no phelan. Unless you give him the managers job. That would be hypocrisy in the extreme though.

Appointing phelan is a massive statement of intent. According to you few the coach is irrelevant. And yet David Williams coached Norwich to our best years without ever managing. And the managers he did have had no success anywhere else.

[ZLF 335]

sadly our current form is lower mid table - 19th over 6 games and 16th over 10 (just under a quarter of a season).

if we truly want to get promoted this season wins against teams who are struggling - which is exactly who 5 of the last 6 games were against (the fact that the only non struggling team gave us a 4-0 tonking only shows the struggles we have)

It is time to be very concerned as we start to face the better teams in this league

[JF 694]

Thats another problem with the Phelan appointment NN. If we don''t take 3 points saturday I think Adams will be gone. Which leaves us having to appoint Phelan who nobody knows how he will fair. Were hardly going to pay his contract off one week after employing him. And no managers will want to be told you must have him as assistant.

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

[quote user="JF"]Thats another problem with the Phelan appointment NN. If we don''t take 3 points saturday I think Adams will be gone. Which leaves us having to appoint Phelan who nobody knows how he will fair. Were hardly going to pay his contract off one week after employing him. And no managers will want to be told you must have him as assistant.[/quote]

Appointing Phelan is a great decision but you see it as a many faceted problem.

[Katie Borkins 1]

I think we have to be more than five points off 2nd place and automatic promotion, and 8 points off the leaders, before it gets "bad".

[Highland Canary 78]

The appointment of the manager was the most important decision of the Summer. Unfortunately, another poor decision was made by the board, the consequences of which are likely to set our Premier League ambitions back by years. The club should be throwing all that they can to bring in Pulis. A combination of Phelan and Pulis, just might, see us scrape into the playoffs. But I suspect inaction followed by disappointment and recriminations is the most likely outcome of this season.