Crystal Palace & West Bromwich Albion

[Herman 9,765]

The first paragraph of Year of the Tiger''s post was just quoting Newton. The second paragraph was quite valid.

[Newton 0]

Did not realise that Delia & hubby only own 53% of the club - sadly that allows them to dictate policy 100% without reference to the views of the other 47%

That''s why we are in such a mess

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Year of the tiger"]

 Let''s get this straight, the only reason we stayed out of administration in League one was that we had to agre to pay back the whole of the debt if reached the Premier & stayed up for a second season. We had to pay the debt, the board did not as you say chose to pay it back early

.[/quote]

I ask again......source ?

 

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Year of the tiger"]

 Let''s get this straight, the only reason we stayed out of administration in League one was that we had to agre to pay back the whole of the debt if reached the Premier & stayed up for a second season. We had to pay the debt, the board did not as you say chose to pay it back early

.[/quote]

I ask again......source ?

 

[/quote]I''m fairly certain that was one of the terms agreed to reschedule the debt at the time. I think it may well have come from McNally himself.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Newton"]Did not realise that Delia & hubby only own 53% of the club - sadly that allows them to dictate policy 100% without reference to the views of the other 47% That''s why we are in such a mess[/quote]

So are  you saying that if Delia & MWJ are outvoted on a show of hands in the boardroom by Foulger,Philips,Bowkett, Fry and McNally they have a little hissy fit and throw their 53% on the table and get their own way.

If that is what you are saying you really know absolutely nothing about ruthless businessmen like Bowkett and McNally to suggest they would be hanging around for very long if that went on.

[Newton 0]

Re the debt that was repaid when we were promoted to the Prem

The reason why short term debt had built up substantially over the 4 years prior to Lamberts appointment was that not only had Delia sanctioned the appointment of some appauling Managers and subsequently sacked them, she also sanctioned increased borrowing to enable the purchase of some very poor players players - I wont name them but I am sure 11 of the players Gunn signed in the summer were moved on by Lambert before his first Christmas

My point is - Delia as the owner was responsible for the build up of the majority of our short term debt through the appointment of cr#p managers & funding of there spending sprees

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

The debt refinancing did include a clause - first

revealed to the world by a poster here whose name I forget - that

insisted on early repayment if we got to the PL and even earlier

repayment if we stayed up for a second season. Whether it is true that

our lenders would have tipped us into administration if we hadn''t agreed

to that in general, or to the specific terms, I could not say. You

would have had to have been in the negotiations to be sure about that.

[Year of the tiger 54]

Newton. The debt that had to be re paid was not short term it was the balance of the loan taken out to rebuild the South/ Jarrold Stand in 2002. The repayments & interest were rescheduled. Mr T as far as I remember it the fact that the loan had to be repaid when it was, was outlined in one of those presentations at the AGM that DM & AB are so fond of.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Newton"]Re the debt that was repaid when we were promoted to the Prem The reason why short term debt had built up substantially over the 4 years prior to Lamberts appointment was that not only had Delia sanctioned the appointment of some appauling Managers and subsequently sacked them, she also sanctioned increased borrowing to enable the purchase of some very poor players players - I wont name them but I am sure 11 of the players Gunn signed in the summer were moved on by Lambert before his first Christmas My point is - Delia as the owner was responsible for the build up of the majority of our short term debt through the appointment of cr#p managers & funding of there spending sprees[/quote]

The big debt and the biggest millstone around our neck was the rebuild of the South Stand which was beyond the control of the club. However it obviously suits your agenda to blame Delia for ALL our financial problems. She is not without blame for some things but really please get your facts straight.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Year of the tiger"]Newton. The debt that had to be re paid was not short term it was the balance of the loan taken out to rebuild the South/ Jarrold Stand in 2002. The repayments & interest were rescheduled. Mr T as far as I remember it the fact that the loan had to be repaid when it was, was outlined in one of those presentations at the AGM that DM & AB are so fond of.[/quote]

[Y]

[Newton 0]

TIL 1010

Can I assume that u do not accept that Delia was in any way responsible for the accumulation of a substantial amount of short term debt by the appointment of inadequate managers & then allowing the club to fund there spending sprees ?

Let me help u - the answer can only be yes or no

[nutty nigel 7,535]

You can assume that I believe you''re posting a load of tripe Newton. Nothing you''ve posted yet has any accuracy whatsoever.

 

 

[whoareyou? 0]

I don''t think its entirely unreasonable to say that part of the reason for the club being in debt over so much of the last 20 years or so is down to some quite appalling managerial appointments.I appreciate the current owners took the club on with a considerable debt burden already there but they only got out of that mess when the made their best managerial appointment and an appointment which i think its fair to say that DS and MWJ had absolutely no say in.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Newton"]TIL 1010

Can I assume that u do not accept that Delia was in any way responsible for the accumulation of a substantial amount of short term debt by the appointment of inadequate managers & then allowing the club to fund there spending sprees ?

Let me help u - the answer can only be yes or no[/quote]What substantial short-term debt would that be? Would you mind itemising it? Of course we had some normal short-term debt, but the significant majority was long-term debt owed to AXA and Bank of Scotland. That which was effectively the result of having to rebuild the South Stand and which was rengotiated when we had difficulty repaying it. So, no, Delia was not responsible for accumulating a substantial amount of short-term debt at all, let alone by way of the fantasy method you have described.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="whoareyou"]I don''t think its entirely unreasonable to say that part of the reason for the club being in debt over so much of the last 20 years or so is down to some quite appalling managerial appointments.I appreciate the current owners took the club on with a considerable debt burden already there but they only got out of that mess when the made their best managerial appointment and an appointment which i think its fair to say that DS and MWJ had absolutely no say in.[/quote]

 

It''s not difficult to check though is it?

 

Or are you suggesting that football budgets that didn''t achieve what you wanted were turned into debt? Every club spends it''s budget every year. For some it brings success and some failure. We''ve had it good over the last ten years. Plenty of success and plenty of failure. What is it you believe Smith and Jones did to increase the debt?

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Newton"]TIL 1010 Can I assume that u do not accept that Delia was in any way responsible for the accumulation of a substantial amount of short term debt by the appointment of inadequate managers & then allowing the club to fund there spending sprees ? Let me help u - the answer can only be yes or no[/quote]

If you had a clue what you are rambling on about I would give you a straight answer but as has been pointed out by others you are talking nonsense. Delia, MWJ and Foulger are still owed millions of their own money pumped into the club over the years whenever money had to be found. Still that does not fit snugly into your agenda. Show a few facts instead of a large portion of fantasy on your part. As I said earlier Delia has her faults and has made errors of judgement but to hold her solely responsible for our previous financial problems is way off beam.

[Newton 0]

TIL 1010

Sadly u know little - the club owes Delia & co the sum of £1.5M in total - each year she is offered repayment in full but declines

The rest of the money she has put into the club has either been repaid in full or converted to share capital - if she ever decided to sell her shares to a third party she would undoubtedly make a substantial profit as we are currently debt free and own substantial assets

TIL 1010 what other money do we owe her ?

You are one of a substantial number who still believe that we are financially tied to this woman - it is not true

[nutty nigel 7,535]

I''m not sure where Tilly has said any such thing. We are all waiting for you to list the items that she added to the debt. It''s a simple exercise. It''s all in the accounts...

 

[Newton 0]

nutty nigel

Til 1010 said

Delia, MWJ and Foulger are still owed millions of their own money pumped into the club over the years whenever money had to be found

The accounts clearly show that they are only owed £1.5M and delia has refused to accept repayment (been like this ever since we got to the Prem)

He like you is another one who believes we are financially tied to this woman - I reiterate that we owe her nothing (only £1.5M) and besides the stand a large proportion of our short term debt built up prior to promotion to the Prem was a direct result of the boards continuing failingsby appoint inexperienced managers and then funding there player acquisitions

If I am wrong be specific

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Well you''re wrong twice now. I can only speak for myself but I have no idea whether Delia has been offered and refused payment. The other thing you are wrong about is the debt and what it consisted of. All you have to do is list the items she added to that debt. It will all be in the accounts if you are being truthful...

[Newton 0]

Nutty you are confused

I am a shareholder and went to the AGM a couple of months ago

It was announced that the club is now debt free other than a small loan of £1.5M still outstanding from Delia - the club offered to repay it in full. She declined and we all applauded (not me)

There is no other debt to this woman - what are u talking about - the only control she has over the club is her 52% shareholding - this is not a debt as she is free to sell the shares to any 3rd party she wishes - but as we know is determined to retain control?

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Newton"]nutty nigel

Til 1010 said

Delia, MWJ and Foulger are still owed millions of their own money pumped into the club over the years whenever money had to be found

The accounts clearly show that they are only owed £1.5M and delia has refused to accept repayment (been like this ever since we got to the Prem)

He like you is another one who believes we are financially tied to this woman - I reiterate that we owe her nothing (only £1.5M) and besides the stand a large proportion of our short term debt built up prior to promotion to the Prem was a direct result of the boards continuing failingsby appoint inexperienced managers and then funding there player acquisitions

If I am wrong be specific[/quote]The person who needs to be specific is you about this "substantial amount of short-term debt" (previous post) you keep saying we had prior to promotion to the Premier League. You have so far avoided providing any details. Any chance of a few? Tedious, I know, but it would help educate posters and illuminate this discussion.Meanwhile, to put this in context, at the time of Cullumgate in 2008 our debt was £20m. I think that was about its high point. In the latest league table of net debt for Championship clubs (which totalled nearly £1bn) that figure would put us down in 15th place, below, for example, Bolton with £163.8m of debt. Only Blackpool had no debt.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

At the AGM, the board announced that the club was "externally" debt free. monies owed to the likes of Axa/Bank has been repaid owed to the trigger of promotion to the premier league.

Directors loans are shown for 2014 at £2.069m . this has reduced from £3.146 the previous year.

In note 31 to the accounts, DS and MWJ loan reduced by £500k and Foulger reduced by £577k - I assume this was paid back rather than being written off by the loanors.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

So first we have Newton claiming Delia owns 62% of the shareholding and the accounts for 2014 state it is 53%. Then we have him claiming debt to directors is ''only'' £1.5 million when the accounts show it is just over £2 million.

For a shareholder I suggest you read the AGM report Newton instead of trying to gather support for your agenda by colouring the FACTS to suit your ridiculous claims.

Anyway that list of short term debt Delia piled on the club is still not forthcoming. I thought that would be a fairly simple task for someone who has access to the accounts.

 

[Newton 0]

The short term debt that she allowed the club to accrue was the transfer funds that she made available to inadequate managers

Grant

roder & gunn - i think u will find the later signed 12 players in the summer - lambert moved them all on by that christmas - I cant list each player but there were loads of cr#p ones

What dont u understand - the debt still owed to delia £1.5 /2M (increased with interest)

The point is she no longer has a financial hold over us, contrary to what many believe, she maintains a minimal shareholding just sufficient to retain 100% control of the club

She needs to move on as she is the cause of our many problems on the field (she rubber stamps the ,managers) and not the solution

If u believe otherwise see u in League 1 in 3 years

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Newton"]The short term debt that she allowed the club to accrue was the transfer funds that she made available to inadequate managers

Grant

roder & gunn - i think u will find the later signed 12 players in the summer - lambert moved them all on by that christmas - I cant list each player but there were loads of cr#p ones

What dont u understand - the debt still owed to delia £1.5 /2M (increased with interest)

The point is she no longer has a financial hold over us, contrary to what many believe, she maintains a minimal shareholding just sufficient to retain 100% control of the club

She needs to move on as she is the cause of our many problems on the field (she rubber stamps the ,managers) and not the solution

If u believe otherwise see u in League 1 in 3 years[/quote]Not even a good try. You need to identify and quantify this supposed short-term debt instead of simply carrying on saying it existed. As to the money loaned by Smith and Jones (and by Foulger) that was all interest-free.

[Newton 0]

I love Purple Canary & TIL 1010 they both see Delia thyrough rose tinted glasses

You asked for a specific example of her squandering club funds - what about this one ?

She has appointed an inadequate manager who would not get a managers job in any other club in the football league (a trend seen many times over recent years)

She has allowed him to spend (I wont say invest) £14M in players & loan fees in the summer transfer market (from the accounts) - only £2M Jerone is a starter. I would suggest we will have little chance of getting anywhere near £12M back if the rest were put up for sale

One would have thought that if a manager was given that level of funding more than 1 acquisition would start on a regular basis or do u think this is a good return ?

Is this not another prime example of her allowing the club to throw its money away through the appointment of another cr#p manager (please do not ask me to list all the recent ones there are many threads on here) - this time it is not borrowed money but in the past it was ?

I can only reiterate my previous comments in that She needs to move on as she is the cause of our many problems on the field (she rubber stamps the ,managers) and not the solution If u believe otherwise see u in League 1 in 3 years

[Herman 9,765]

Do you actually know what goes on at board level?

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Newton"]I love Purple Canary & TIL 1010 they both see Delia thyrough rose tinted glasses

You asked for a specific example of her squandering club funds - what about this one ?

She has appointed an inadequate manager who would not get a managers job in any other club in the football league (a trend seen many times over recent years)

She has allowed him to spend (I wont say invest) £14M in players & loan fees in the summer transfer market (from the accounts) - only £2M Jerone is a starter. I would suggest we will have little chance of getting anywhere near £12M back if the rest were put up for sale

One would have thought that if a manager was given that level of funding more than 1 acquisition would start on a regular basis or do u think this is a good return ?

Is this not another prime example of her allowing the club to throw its money away through the appointment of another cr#p manager (please do not ask me to list all the recent ones there are many threads on here) - this time it is not borrowed money but in the past it was ?

I can only reiterate my previous comments in that She needs to move on as she is the cause of our many problems on the field (she rubber stamps the ,managers) and not the solution If u believe otherwise see u in League 1 in 3 years[/quote]Please don''t try to put me in a category. You really have not a clue what you''re talking about as far as my views are concerned, or about much else. I won''t bother asking again for you to detail how much short-term debt Delia has accumulated. You plainly have just made that accusation up, hoping it wouldn''t be challenged. Rather as with your false accusation  that Delia has charged interest on the money she has loaned the club.

[Newton 0]

Hi Purple Canary

I have spent time reading your posts and all u are doing is contradicting everything any one says to try & look good

You do not post anything of any value - u have no constructive comment other than criticism of other post

If u do not understand the point I am trying to make by stating Delia has played a major part in our money problems over the years by appointment inexperienced managers and then giving them funds to buy cr#p players, without listing every player the likes of Grant, Gunn & Adams have brought and there exact value you clearly are either stupid (probably) or choosing to create conflict

Either way u r an utter dick