Worthington effective or ineffective?

[FatMan Fat 0]

I am posting this before the Charlton match. For me, the whole question of whether Worthington is the right manager for our Club comes down to the next two matches. Has he got the skills necessary to get the team to perform in two vital matches, or hasn''t he? If he has, he should stay, if he hasn''t he should go.

In my opinion Worthington is not a good "man manager", there are far too many instances of him falling down in this particular area.  Neither, in my opinion is he a particularly good coach. The team continues to defend too deeply, the midfield sits too close to the defence, the side has very little "balance", we can''t even sort out what to do at throw-ins!!  All of these are things that should be sorted out on the training ground, but they fail to get sorted.

However, these are just my personal opinions.

In the cold light of day every good manager, no matter what walk of life they manage in, end up with the team that they deserve...the team that reflects their values, beliefs and standards.  If their teams do not end up with the manager''s values, beliefs and standards then by definition the manager is ineffectual as he/she is unable to influence the people he/she is responsible for.

Worthington''s team have to show the necessary commitment and fight over the next two matches to give us a chance of staying up. They have to show the necessary tactical skill to control a match at certain crucial times. If they are able to do that then Worthington has done his job, which after all is what he is paid for.

Should we fail to show the necessary fight and commitment, or produce tactical naivety, then he should pay the ultimate price and lose his job.

 

[Being Jan Kristiansen... 0]

He is a developing manager.

 

As soon as he stops learning/improving then he should go but until the end of this season he gets my 100% backing.

This is not a question for now.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Have to say Worthy''s tactics were pretty bloody effective today!

[FatMan Fat 0]

We won which is brilliant but you can''t be serious, DD, that Worthington''s tactics were effective?

Once again the midfield played too close to the defence.  Once agian we lacked balance with Jonsson on the left and Bentley should have been taken off much earlier as he was very ineffective today.

Like you, I will be at St Mary''s next week, and like you I will be praying for a result. However, I am not a fan of Worthington and until such time as he sorts the tactics out and selects a team with balance I doubt I ever will be.

 

[king of latvia 0]

[quote]We won which is brilliant but you can''t be serious, DD, that Worthington''s tactics were effective? Once again the midfield played too close to the defence. Once agian we lacked balance with Jonsso...[/quote]

i think they were ,

1. keeping clean sheet

2.tactical sub playing matty left wing and hucks right

3.matty clearing of the line

4.matty scoring the winning goal

 and you say Worthington''s tactics were not  effective .

 

BELIEVE

THE GREAT ESCAPE

[Gentleman Jim 0]

After another great win the only topic this forum can come up with is this one, oh dear it''s sad

[Stephen Frys Evil Twin 0]

A sub scored the winner, I''d say that tactical change had an effect.

In case you hadn''t noticed, we''ve just got 10 points from the last 12. Stop finding something to moan about and support everyone connected to the club.

[3pmkickoff 0]

From near relegation to having a chance of staying up having not spent a lot of money in four seasons. Worthy''s the man for me and this is the kind of crap we can do without at this stage in the season

[The Doc 0]

WHAT MORE DO YOU FRIGGIN WANT???His signings are dreadful (appartently) tactically niave? He took a substandard league 1 side and has transformed them beyond recognitionHow much more of this pap do we have to take?

[silver fox 0]

[quote]We won which is brilliant but you can''t be serious, DD, that Worthington''s tactics were effective? Once again the midfield played too close to the defence. Once agian we lacked balance with Jonsso...[/quote]

I had hoped Worthy would play Johnson on the right and Bentley on the left and I think that would have given a better balance to the midfield.  If only he would replace Fleming with Charlton then I think our defence would be sorted.  All credit to Worthy, but you have to question why it took him so long to bring in Shackell and bring back Safri and Helveg.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Well at least Silver Fox doesn''t view life through blinkered glasses

Still, next week will remain a crucial match and the problem is which team will turn up for us? The one that rolls over and dies, or the one that keeps going to the end? And therein lies most of the problem this season and thats why I question Worthington as a manager.

The point being is that we shouldn''t even be in this position, but due to the inconsistency and collapse during three or four vital matches we are fighting for our survival, and for me that''s down to having an ineffective manager.

 

[BedsCanary 0]

[quote]I am posting this before the Charlton match. For me, the whole question of whether Worthington is the right manager for our Club comes down to the next two matches. Has he got the skills necessary to ...[/quote]

Hahaha!

In hindsight - that is without doubt the worst post this message board has seen in months!

[Essexiled Canary 0]

[quote]We won which is brilliant but you can''t be serious, DD, that Worthington''s tactics were effective? Once again the midfield played too close to the defence. Once agian we lacked balance with Jonsso...[/quote]

I think you have to look at the players!!

60% of the time they do not do Worthy Justice!!

Why do you think we are a second half team?? I tell you what I think, I think at half time Worthy asks what the hell''s going on, has a chance to sort out what is going on and make for a better half of football!!

If you watch him on the touchline he is constantly telling the defence to push out and the midfield to get forward!!

As for his team selections, half the bl£$*y team''s been out with injuries this season so he hasn''t a great number to choose from and is it any surprise that now the injury crisis is over that Worthy seems to be picking winning teams most weeks??

[AJ 1,224]

[quote]WHAT MORE DO YOU FRIGGIN WANT???His signings are dreadful (appartently) tactically niave? He took a substandard league 1 side and has transformed them beyond recognitionHow much more of this pap do we...[/quote]

sumed it up in one

[Darlo dumplin’ 0]

agree with the ''what more do you want'' comment. great if we could do a chelski but cummon get real. we can now se the true benefits of last summers signings, plus Ashton, and IMO can at last see that EVEN IF we do still go down, we really have a realistic chance of bouncing straight back. perhaps someone cantell us who we should have instead, who has a proven record inthe prem. someone like Graham Souness? Dont think Allardyce would come.?

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

[quote]We won which is brilliant but you can''t be serious, DD, that Worthington''s tactics were effective? Once again the midfield played too close to the defence. Once agian we lacked balance with Jonsso...[/quote]

I agree that Worthy has his criticisms FatMan but you can''t deny that the reason we have played so well in previous weeks is largely down to him.  He made the changes (Helveg, Saf and Bents) against Man Utd and we haven''t looked back.  Yesterday he took Bents off and brought Sven on to get the winner.  Now I don''t care how we play.  If we scrape 1-0 wins in the 87th minute for our last 3 games, I''ll be delighted.

Nige has come under fire all season long.  Some of it justified, some not.  Now however, he is getting it right and I think we should salute him for it

[FatMan Fat 0]

As I said in my original post, if Worthington keeps us up he has done his job - if he doesn''t, then he hasn''t done his job and he should go.

Simple, really

[ZLF 274]

While FMFs post could perhap have, um, been better timed, there is a lot of merit in what he has posted.  Just because we have won a couple of games does not make him immune from criticism

Just a few weeks ago city played arsenal and could have put out the team that appeared on Sat - for reasons only known to himself Worthy continued to select Eddy ahead of Helveg and Holt ahead of Safri.  Where is the injuries to blame comment in that selection?

We have all been moaning since Nov about the make up with the defence with a majority calling for the dropping of Flem, who continues to survive in the first team. Where is Charlton, who was THE best defender for the first 5 months of the season and who constantly and publically undermined on the pitch through raging on pitch rows with the now club captain, who unbeleivably emains blemish free. 

A significant number of fans called for the introduction of Shacks yet, like playing our best FOOTBALLERS, did not happen until the Manure game.  This has pretty much been our best side and available for the majority of the season.

Worthy has some serious shortfalls; over the last 5 months he has justifiably been criticised for poor substitutions (Sven does not mask 3 years of errors!) poor tactical awareness, an inability to adjust tactics mid game, unable to decide our best side or tactics, a core failure to identify where the weaknesses of the side are and blatant point costing favouritism.  He must learn from these mistakes and improve as a manager. 

Who knows, if we had played our best side (barring the injuries) we may very well have already been safe rather than have this current, if exciting, conclusion to the season.

However this is where I disagree with FMF; I think Worthy is slowly (nearly too slowly, it looks like the penny may have just dropped in time this season:whistling but surely continuing to learn.  He remains a bright managerial propsect who despite his faults does know what it takes to get out of a very competitive championship, if our current odyssey fails.  There are very few managers who would provide a similar result with the current resources at his disposal, let alone do significantly better. 

Stability is a virtue at football clubs; just looks at what Curbs has acheived at Charlton.  Worthy deserves a chance to show he can bounce back if we do get relegated, although a poor start will have even me thinking long and hard, but that will depend on the summers player turnover and the quality of performances on the pitch.  If we survive then he will stay any way and rightly so.

Worthy has done a solid job but some significant cracks are visible, but repairable. Its time for Worthy to step up to the mark, he has done so before, please do so again.

OTBC      

[Yellow Rider 0]

The last post from Zipper is probably the most articulate, accurate and well balanced view on the ''Worthy debate'' that I have read on this site. WELL DONE!

Unfortunately, the ''Worthy lovers'' have NO answer to the basic flaw in Worthy''s approach ths season which has been the favouritism to Holt, Fleming, Eddie etc. WHY WERE SAFRI AND HELVEG NOT GIVEN EXTENDED RUNS (8 or 9 games) AT THE START OF THE SEASON WHEN THE LUMBERING HOLT PLAYED WEEK IN, WEEK OUT.    

To keep playing Fleming all season is unbelievable (although to be fair I do think he has played slightly better in the last two games). To keep playing Holt (barring the illness) was even more unbelievable.

IF we do stay up (and if we beat Sothampton and the Palace / Albion results go for us, I think we will) I will be the first to hold my hands up and congratulate Worthy. BUT there is no way this turnround would have happend without the likes of Shacks, Helveg and Safri in the team. I honestly believe that he made those changes because he was getting himself boxed into a corner. We were losing matches and shipping goals yet he stubbornly refused to change anything. He''s no fool, he was (and is) aware of the fans criticisms and things were building up. I think someone probably ''had a quiet word''.

[Alan George 0]

I agree that worthington should stay but not because he is perfect. He has made a number of errors in his running of the team throughout the year and is still learning as a manager.

However i do think that Worthy has got to know his team, is building up the squad, has experience in the championship and the premiership, has acheived promotion with us before and knows how do do it again. Asking him to keep up a team who were relegation certainties on paper was a big ask. The real question to ask i who would replace him, and why would they be considerably better than worthy?

[FatMan Fat 0]

I too would congratulate Zipper on his post.

It has a more balanced view than my opinions and thats probably no bad thing.

[Morph 19]

[quote]I too would congratulate Zipper on his post. It has a more balanced view than my opinions and thats probably no bad thing.[/quote]

Have to agree with you there FMF, Zippers post was excellently written and a good summation of a lot of people''s feelings about Worthy''s performance.

There are always going to be those who post here whose corollary for success is simply to see City play, irrespective of what league they are in and how they are playing - the Beds, ncfc4prem, Gorleston Jims and DDiMs of this board (sorry if you feel maligned by that assertion). There are others like FMF, 1stWizard, Tumbleweed, silver fox and myself who want and expect more from their team than simply to turn up and play.

And whilst FMFs initial post does seem ill-timed given the current run of form, it would be nice if the "green and yellow spectacle" brigade can accept that there are people who have a difference of opinion from themselves. Just seeing the team isn''t enough.

Worthy is NOT perfect but he does appear to be learning, albeit slowly. For his part he seems to have turned the team around in the last few games and got them going in the right direction. ALL of us are happy for that. That doesn''t mean he and the team have met everybody''s expectations and so we have to accept there will continue to be critical posts.

That said, don''t simply put those posters down with another "oh here''s another depressing thread post" reply - those replies are as boring and tedious as you feel the complaining posts are - accept that there will always be a broad spectrum of opinion. If we all shared the same view of City''s performance this season this would be a really boring place to come and read about the team.

Keep it going Worthy and the team it''s all we can ask of you at this stage and maybe come the end of the season that 17th place that many of us "dissenters" have so vainly hoped for will be attained.

...

[ZLF 274]

Stop it - you are making me blush!

However all I  did was restate the views of this very board of the last few months; there was nothing new there but I do believe every word I typed. BUT, more than, anything I was disappointed that a reasonable initial post should receive such a hypocritical reply from so many regular posters.

But it doesnt mean I''m right (even though, like the rest of us, I believe I always am) anymore than you, FMF, think that Worthy should go - we both have valid views and it is important that people can post theirs on here without being ridiculed. 

Thats not PC nonsense either (I enjoyed discussing Eddys performance with FTFW a few weeks ago, admitting I was perhaps too biased in my view, even though FTFW was clearly and very obviously wrong:whistling  but one of the reasons why I tend to only post on this site over juvenile ones like the canarys own board or 606 is that you get a better discussion on here.

  

As FMF posts; hopefully Worthy will learn and the question remains academic!

COME ON YOU YELLOWS.

OTBC