Matt Morriss 69 Posted March 17, 2014 No Wes saturday, didnt even come on did he?So my point, for which no doubt i shall receive abuse as that is the norm now on here, but would Barca sub Messi on 65 mins when winning 1-0 at home, with Messi having a good influential game, and then drop him for the the next match?And before you start im not comparing Wessi to Messi (ok maybe i am) im just comparing the two scenarios. We would never see this at Barca, or any other club for that matter i imagine. Your best player, subbed when winning, and then dropped for the next game.Utter, clueless, inept Hughton madness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 He is only our best player when he can be ar$ed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the pigman 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Well Morty how many of the others can be ar$ed as you put it,very few at the moment.Soccer Sat pundits cant believe he is left out the team and featured some of his skills,not bad at all.the question is,is Wes better than all our other midfielders when at moment they are quite poor themselves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJP 79 Posted March 17, 2014 I just find the use of Hoolahan throughout the season a bit weird. Out for a few weeks and then in for a couple of games before being back out again. He''s suitable for a likely physical clash with Stoke but not suitable to play any part against Southampton. I suppose it all comes down to the fact we didn''t sign that player to link the midfield and strikers. Had that have happened then Hoolahan probably wouldn''t be at the club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="the pigman"]Well Morty how many of the others can be ar$ed as you put it,very few at the moment.Soccer Sat pundits cant believe he is left out the team and featured some of his skills,not bad at all.the question is,is Wes better than all our other midfielders when at moment they are quite poor themselves?[/quote]Every time we play Wes we have to accomodate him. We played the diamond for two seasons to do just that. When we play him in our current system basically every single other player has to step up their workrate to carry him when we dont have the ball.He is a great attacker, but it takes more than just that. Defensively he may run around a lot, but is pretty ineffective against Premiership midfielders.And pundits may just see the odd clips of him beating a player, or threading a pass, and make lazy opinions.Wes on his day has always been almost unplayable, but he is a luxury player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,444 Posted March 17, 2014 Probably saving him for this Saturday when he could have much more of an impact Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 335 Posted March 17, 2014 Sat was crying out for a midfielder to demand the ball (apparent from about 20 mins) to link the defenders to the creators and drive the ball forward, exactly what Wes does, sometimes well, sometimes not. wessi did well against both villa and stoke so to drop him for soton, which as gjp rightly points out is far more suited to his game than the stoke one, and then not bring him on was baffling. Its clear he is not convincing the management team and had one of the cm midfield creators been signed I suspect Wes would have been allowed to leave in Jan if not before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Wes has looked like our most committed and hard-working player every time he''s put on the shirt this season. Which hasn''t been enough and is to be honest, farcical Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeelansGlove 0 Posted March 17, 2014 I cant deny I find it weird too.Play him against Villa , very weird indeed.As you say against a physical Stoke side and then not against a passing side like Saints.I have to say that I don''t consider him to be the answer to our problems but the fact that the manager in his wisdom chose to not replace him in two transfer windows despite clearly wanting to play 4-5-1 is also baffling.Unfortunately effort doesn''t always transfer to end product.Look at Snodgrass , Nobody can den he give 100% but I would say if anything he tries too hard and therefore makes bad choices and holds the ball too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 335 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="morty"]Defensively he may run around a lot, but is pretty ineffective against Premiership midfielders.[/quote]lol - you have just described BJs career! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 4,150 Posted March 17, 2014 Wes is our best player? By what measure? Yes he is a good skilful player and maybe worth a place in the side (at times), but he also has big negatives in that he is often too weak and just brushed aside by larger guys, never seems to shoot and can be as anonymous as he is good within the same game. I like Wes, but you have to admit his weaknesses. IMO we would have been where we are whether or not he was playing more - people are spending a lot of time clutching at straws on this one. Put it this way, most weeks people put down their preferred starting XI down, but Wes is more often than not missing from these: if he is so obviously great, why is this? As for the Stoke match, most can see that the substitution was not wholly unreasonable - adding more steel to protect a lead when the opposition are bringing on attacking players is far from a stupid tactic. Of course whether you agree with actioning it is another thing, but the substitution did not affect the stupid challenge for the pen and without it you feel we would have seen out the game comfortably. The thing is that all season CH has been criticised for not using subs earlier, but now that he is doing so it is also wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeelansGlove 0 Posted March 17, 2014 The consistent problem under Hughton is the lack of a cohesive team whatever formation we play we have strikers isolated with little or no service.Although the pedestrian nature of most of our play probably explains as much of this as does the personnel. Wes is probably the only player in the squad capable of producing the unexpected move of sufficient quality to break down top class defences. He does however hardly ever shoot and gives us no more defensive solidity than we would have playing 4-4-2 but the truth is even then we cannot get players forward to support the attack.Nothing will change until we get a manager in charge that accepts that the best form of defence is to have the ball in your opponents penalty area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dubai Mark 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Why should you get shot down just for having an opinion?.....oh, yes of course, thats what often happens.I guess I am just about in line with Morty''s view on Wes right now. I just dont think he makes things happen like many do and see him as a luxury, and by that I mean that the rest of the team suffers by accomodating him, our midfield unit goes to pieces because it needs strength and he just doesnt have that strength and the other players are just not at the level where they can work to th necessary level and compliment a Wes type player.In addition, for me personally, after his insult towards the club he shouldnt be in the squad anyway.....but thats just me cutting my nose off to spite my face I guess.....but...he is talented, has made a great contribution etc etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,962 Posted March 17, 2014 Villa bid £1.5 million for Wes and despite knowing he was keen to leave, didn''t increase their bid. No other club put a bid in, as far as we know, and I''m sure his agent would have made sure we knew. If Wes is our best player, presumably everyone else our squad is worth less. Pretty sad state of affairs after three years in the Prem. Everyone out!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,763 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="morty"][quote user="the pigman"]Well Morty how many of the others can be ar$ed as you put it,very few at the moment.Soccer Sat pundits cant believe he is left out the team and featured some of his skills,not bad at all.the question is,is Wes better than all our other midfielders when at moment they are quite poor themselves?[/quote]Every time we play Wes we have to accomodate him. We played the diamond for two seasons to do just that. When we play him in our current system basically every single other player has to step up their workrate to carry him when we dont have the ball.He is a great attacker, but it takes more than just that. Defensively he may run around a lot, but is pretty ineffective against Premiership midfielders.And pundits may just see the odd clips of him beating a player, or threading a pass, and make lazy opinions.Wes on his day has always been almost unplayable, but he is a luxury player.[/quote]Disagree Morty. I don''t think Wes requires that much accomodation - not to the extent you''re indicating anyway.His work rate is very good - certainly no worse than playing Howson in a similar position.The way he''s been used this season is odd at best - at worst i''d say the reality is Hughton doesn''t have a clue how to use him. Which is a shame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="hogesar"][quote user="morty"][quote user="the pigman"]Well Morty how many of the others can be ar$ed as you put it,very few at the moment.Soccer Sat pundits cant believe he is left out the team and featured some of his skills,not bad at all.the question is,is Wes better than all our other midfielders when at moment they are quite poor themselves?[/quote]Every time we play Wes we have to accomodate him. We played the diamond for two seasons to do just that. When we play him in our current system basically every single other player has to step up their workrate to carry him when we dont have the ball.He is a great attacker, but it takes more than just that. Defensively he may run around a lot, but is pretty ineffective against Premiership midfielders.And pundits may just see the odd clips of him beating a player, or threading a pass, and make lazy opinions.Wes on his day has always been almost unplayable, but he is a luxury player.[/quote]Disagree Morty. I don''t think Wes requires that much accomodation - not to the extent you''re indicating anyway.His work rate is very good - certainly no worse than playing Howson in a similar position.The way he''s been used this season is odd at best - at worst i''d say the reality is Hughton doesn''t have a clue how to use him. Which is a shame.[/quote]Workrate and actual effectiveness are two different things though.The only way to accommodate Wes is in a diamond, and theres no way we have the players to make that work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 And again Morty does his desperate best to defend the Hughton regime. Just accept it, he is not the man for our club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,763 Posted March 17, 2014 I understand that Morty, but then if you''re going to use that route - i''d simply argue the games where we played two up front - Elmander and Hooper, for example - would instead have been more logical for Hoolahan to play just behind one of them.We had CM''s out injured - and i don''t think Elmanders defensive qualities are particularly impressive over Hoolahans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="NodgeFan"]And again Morty does his desperate best to defend the Hughton regime. Just accept it, he is not the man for our club.[/quote]Okay I''ll humour you, where am I defending Hughton''s regime? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="hogesar"]I understand that Morty, but then if you''re going to use that route - i''d simply argue the games where we played two up front - Elmander and Hooper, for example - would instead have been more logical for Hoolahan to play just behind one of them.We had CM''s out injured - and i don''t think Elmanders defensive qualities are particularly impressive over Hoolahans.[/quote]I think we proved that two up front doesn''t really work for us.Even the fact that we are discussing it shows how much accommodation is required to shoehorn Wes in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 http://momontherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Head-in-sand.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="NodgeFan"]http://momontherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Head-in-sand.jpg[/quote]Brilliant, you can''t answer my question, and you can''t rustle enough braincells together to post a witty picture either.I bow to your superior wit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 When did you become such a bitter old man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeelansGlove 0 Posted March 17, 2014 HAHA Priceless."I think we proved that two up front doesn''t really work for us."I think we have proved that nothing much works for us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Jeez, morons really are like busses on here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 If someone doesn''t agree with Morty they''re a moron. Classic line of a egotistical bully Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="NodgeFan"]If someone doesn''t agree with Morty they''re a moron. Classic line of a egotistical bully[/quote]No, honestly, I genuinely think you are educationally substandard.Prove me wrong, lets see some sparkling football debate, instead of trudging round the forum talking utter carp.Oh and you still didn''t answer my question from a few posts ago, too difficult for you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 17, 2014 Trust me, I am very well educated. I no longer wish to discuss things with you, as we''re never going to agree and there is obviously a personality clash. Enjoy the game on Saturday and your debate of all things Norwich City.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted March 17, 2014 [quote user="NodgeFan"]Trust me, I am very well educated. I no longer wish to discuss things with you, as we''re never going to agree and there is obviously a personality clash. Enjoy the game on Saturday and your debate of all things Norwich City.OTBC[/quote][:D][Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
