Worthy must take blame for shambles at the back.

[silver fox 0]

It was so easy to predict the outcome this afternoon, Blackburn had not scored in last 3, Dickov goes 8 games without a goal.  Up steps our manager, ex defender, and so called highly qualified coach. He decides to stick with the ineffective ( unless they are taking out their own men ), and slow pairing of Fleming and Doherty in the centre, but also puts the left footed Charlton at right back up against a tall left winger. 

I have tried to support some of Worthy''s decisions this season, but today it was an absolute shambles at the back, and Worthy must take full blame.  Why didn''t he play Holt at right back and Charlton at left back, which is his favoured position.  This would have allowed him to play Safri in midfield who would have had more success against Savage and Tugay than Holt did.

I know the forwards let us down today, but let us face facts we now officially have the worst defence in the league having conceded 52 goals.  It beggars belief that our manager can still stick with the same central pairing week in and week out, and once again the luckless Shackell has to sit and watch the so called more experienced defenders let in a further 3 goals.

Take notice of Dave Stringer''s comments Nigel and change the defence now.  Stop being loyal to players who are clearly not up to the task.  You are well paid to make those difficult decisions, so start earning that money and bring in the changes for the Man City game.

 

[charlies dad 0]

hard to argue.

[BIC 0]

I think I''d have to agree with all of that.I know Worthy doesn''t want to chop and change the defence, but for the love of god, it''s couldn''t be much worse than now. I can''t remember us ever having such a poor defence. Can''t believe that we haven''t been trying to get more defenders in, we''re ok up front.

[Campbell 0]

Ah, hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

If we stick away our chances, then we get something out of this game...

Admittedly, the defense isn''t good enough and this will be worked on over our long break. But the players must take the blame also, it''s unfair to blame Worthington solely for this result.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

What else could he have done?  We have two right backs at the club (Eddy and Helveg) both of which are injured.  He had to play someone there who it isn''t his natural position.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,675]

I pretty much agree.  We have a very leaky defence, and have known about it for months but don''t seem to have tried to do anything about it, and this with a manager who plied his trade as a defender. 

We really do need to change things around somehow eg give Shackell a go: playing Charlton pretty much anywhere in preference doesn''t make much sense to me; even playing Holt at right back today made more sense than Charlton.

Everyone is blaming the strikers for not putting chances away, and of course they have a fair point - but there is not a side in the land that takes every chance.   Even with the most potent strikeforce available I don''t really think we will ever create enough chances to score the goals needed to consistently win games if we continue to let them in at an average of 2 a game; even the best side in the, Chelsea, with all their money they''ve spent, are only currently scoring one per game on their travels.

I was gutted when we didn''t get ''reinforcements'' for our defence in during the transfer window: to me, a good defender was more important than a decent striker - any effective side is built on defence: look at us last season, if you need proof.

[FinnCanary 0]

I''m sorry, but if you saw the game the goals go down to Greeno. All 3 were catchable. Maybe the corner was harderst one but the other 2 was because of Rob. Maybe Worthers isn''t the best tactic in the world but I wouldn''t definitely blame Nige for todays defeat.

[We need a Manager 0]

Totally agree , and his comments before the match about Blackburn being a dirty side only fired them up to beat us . As you say it was so predictable .

[silver fox 0]

[quote]What else could he have done? We have two right backs at the club (Eddy and Helveg) both of which are injured. He had to play someone there who it isn''t his natural position.[/quote]

Fleming and Holt have both played at right back before, which is marginally better than Charlton who is either central or left.

[funny old game 1]

[quote]What else could he have done? We have two right backs at the club (Eddy and Helveg) both of which are injured. He had to play someone there who it isn''t his natural position.[/quote]

HOLT HAS PLAYED THERE ON OCCAIONS & JONSON WAS OUTSTANDING AT POMPEY WHEN FORCED TO PLAY THERE SO WE DO HAVE OPTIONS, THERE SEEMS TO BE A ''CLICK'' INVOLVING THE BACK 4

[Canary Boy 0]

I have to agree with everything Silver Fox has said. The defense needs changing...and fast!

Fleming, although experienced, has been slow and not with it. Doherty has been playing well but lately has lost his way. Mind you, we all said this last summer when we got promoted. I remember saying things like..."Can you imagine Theirry Henry or Ryan Giggs running at our defense?"

I cannot believe we have not put more strenth and time into this area!

As has been said, Worthy was a defender...he should know all about keeping it tight! Do it!

[harrogate canary 0]

You can''t blame Worthy , but l didn''t think it was his style to have a go at the opposition before the game , it in my opinion , revved Blackburn up and added more spice to their game plan . Saying that all three goals were down to Greeno , true he made two great saves , but by then it was game over . Worthy has to get tough with players that are not performing and play players in their best positions . l know you can''t go back , but in my opinion , we are missing Malky in defence and before dumping him to the Championship , Worthy should have given him a chance in the Prem . He could then have played Charlton/Brennan , Eddy & Flem with Malky at the back . l wouldn''t want to drop / rest Greeno , but sometimes it might just be the kick up the backside he needs after a performance like that today . l was very disappointed today and think we should have gone there to rough them up and take something from the game , even win it .

[LinkNR9 0]

Fleming or Jonson should have been right back, Shackell in the middle and Charlton at left back. Not that this mattered, because Worthington''s comments before the game served to ensure that Blackburn were going to try to play us off the park today, which they did.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Ah, hindsight is such a wonderful thing. If we stick away our chances, then we get something out of this game... Admittedly, the defense isn''t good enough and this will be worked on over our long br...[/quote]

Bloody hell Campbell, I have to agree with you!.

I must go and lay down, I don''t feel well.  

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Firstly Jonson was injured.  Secondly have you EVER seen Holt play a good game at right back?  Whenever I''ve seen him there he has been absolutely awful.  Finally, it''s fine to sit here and bitch about Worthy''s tactics AFTER the game.  As Campbell said hindsight is a wonderful thing!  How do we know that Flem or anyone else would have done any better than Charlie?  We don''t.  He''s certainly slower than Charlie.  I''m sure Worthy didn''t want to play Charlie there but he had to put someone there

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Fleming or Jonson should have been right back, Shackell in the middle and Charlton at left back. Not that this mattered, because Worthington''s comments before the game served to ensure that Blackburn ...[/quote]

How on earth could Jonson be at right back?, when he is still suffering from the effects of a virus he caught last week, and was not fit to play!.

Do keep up people!.

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

without an obvious right-back we should have played 3-5-2 but that''s the benefit of hindsight but before the defence bashers go take to the soap box please also consider the chances missed at the other end of the pitch (they''re just as costly!)

[Morph 19]

Wiz will no doubt pillary me for making this comment but...

I watched a little of the Spurs v West Brom game on the live MOTD and the Albion were playing with an approach that appeared to be sadly lacking from City''s performance yesterday. Somebody had noted this in the long thread that had been spurred by YankeeCanary about defensive frailities last week.

Each Albion player from the midfield back through the defence was quickly closing down the nearest opposition player when he received the ball yesterday. Many putting in the tackles needed to regain possession. How many times in City''s match did you see a midfielder or defender follow their man but a) NOT close down the space given to the player; and b) NOT make a tackle to prevent the player going forward?

Although we''re slagging off the defense from yesterday''s performance there were three chances that City had themselves to make it a contest. Brennan''s 6 yard blunder. Huckerby''s swing my left boot and fall over. Ashton''s force Friedel into a good save. A little more clinical finishing and it could have been a completely different game.

...

[robert van der meulen 0]

To be fair, I agree that worthy needs to take some stick for our defence this season as a whole. I have a close friend who is a Tottenham supporter, so I saw quite alot of Docherty last season. When we forked out 750K for him I was shocked. He makes far too many costly mistakes for a central defender - He''s the sort of player who will have a great game, and then make one mistake that loses the match - a la Everton. Or he will have a terrible game. The one saving grace is that the Doc is a young Internatinoal defender, who in four or five years when he hits 29-30 will have the experience to avoid his tendency for errors. At the moment though, I don''t see he offers us much that Mackay didn''t.

Worthy persists in playing the same defensive line-up because the main problem with our defence is they look like they''ve never played together - they don''t look properly drilled, and they don''t work as a unit. However this is a probelem that needs to be sorted out on the training ground, not by repeated bad performances in competitive matches.

Our defence is not the only people to blame though. Our defending as a team makes the job very hard for the back four. Our side could take a serious tip from the Greek side that won the Euro cup. They had no truly outstanding players, yet through incredible team spirit and organisation they created a system that even the best teams in the world couldn''t break down. If our midfield, and strikers worked as a unit better, then they would stifle teams further up the pitch, and not cause so many attackers vs. defenders situations in matches where Norwich usually concede due to lack of quality.

With our limited budget and playing squad NW''s job is made extremely difficult. Add injuries, and thingsd become nearly impossible. However I do believe that in football, individual skill cannot match a concerted team effort. If every player on the pitch is giving 100% for each other, I think that is enough to beat or draw with most teams in the premiership. The trick is making it happen as Otto Hitzfeld did with Greece.

But remember, we are a promoted team - our defence will be poor - and our attack lacking. We only need to finish 17th, and that is clearly within reach. Stay faithful, and hope that worthy can drill our players into winning a few matches.

[Campbell 0]

[quote]Bloody hell Campbell, I have to agree with you!. I must go and lay down, I don''t feel well.[/quote]

Nothing wrong in agreeing with a genius 1st Wizard! I''m rarely wrong

But seriously, it''s not just the back four that has trouble defending. Worthington said yesterday we did not defend well enough as a TEAM...that means from the strikers all the way back. The amount of times Huckerby just abandoned Ashton yesterday was a joke, leaving Deano with the impossible task of trying to work 4 Blackburn defenders. And as we all know now, if you give quality players (wherever they are on the pitch) time and space, you will be opened up.

Then there is the midfield! Yesterday, the only player in our midfield who had any desire, fight and a clue where he should be was Graham Stuart. Where has the fight and grit gone in our play? We just seem to let the opposition have the ball, casually jogging along with them, hoping that give the ball away. Many pundits have said it this season, and I think they''re right in that we''re are too nice when the opposition have the ball. How many players in our team really love the big physical challenge? Fleming; possibly...Holt; sometimes...Francis? Doesn''t show it enough...The only player who really does drive into tackles is Thomas Helveg, and we miss his steel, even at right back.

No, our back four aren''t brilliant, but if you stuck Chelsea''s midfield trio infront of our back four, we wouldn''t have conceded half the goals we have. It''s a team game, and our shape and desire to win the ball back are sadly missing.

I just wonder if we''ve become a bit stale, just going through the motions? Do we really believe we can go 11 v 11 and win some battles on that pitch? In the game against Man City we shall see how much the players want it, and how much fight there is...

Mr Helveg: get fit soon!

[Old Boy 0]

I didn''t see the game - I listened to Roy and Neil, and got more and more depressed. Once again, we seemed to play well for the first 20 minutes, except that we missed several easy chances. Then we concede a goal which Green should probably have saved, but don''t forget the conditions were awful. Then it got worse, and got worse again. In the end, "bouncebackability" seemed like a rather sick joke, and it was the lack of spirit that was the most depressing thing.

It seemed that Blackburn were exploiting the fact that Charlton wasn''t comfortable at right back, but to put Holt there was a real last throw of the dice. Maybe he should have played Fleming there, but who knows if he''d have been any better: he doesn''t shine in his preferred position, so perhaps it''s unlikely. Otherwise there weren''t any other options, so to blame Worthy is a bit harsh.

I''m becoming a Doc convert because, although he panics like Flem, at least he shows signs of being able to play the ball out of defence. So lets leave him there, but put someone a bit more reliable and steady alongside him. But really it seemed like a bad day for the whole of the team. Let''s hope they pull themselves together before the ManC game.

[Morph 19]

I have to say I''m surprised Worthy didn''t adjust the back four and put Charlton in the middle and push Fleming out to right back. He also had Shackell on the bench so re-organising the defense would not have caused too many problems.

If Charlton''s comments are correct then he played with an injury which makes Shackells position on the bench even more farcical. Shackell in at centre back and Fleming out to right back.

You have to despair with Worthy and the coaching staff when the defensive reorganisation is noted by so many supporters.

...

[ZLF 274]

I agree Morph that the ''logical'' approach would have been to put Flem on the right - he has played there before and done ok, is right footed and a defender.  The only other options are to have played Jonson (ill) Holt (hopeless when played there previously) or one of the youth players.   Flem fitted the bill perfectly but Worthys desire to keep flem in the middle and his hope that players can play well out of position came to the fore again - Charlie at right back was always going to be a recklessly silly choice.

Keep players in their best positions or if that is not possible ones that they have at least had some success in previously.

As I have said before worthy has a blind spot about some players and Flem in king amongst them - the sooner worthy realises just how much of a liability he has become the better.  However until the injured players are fit again we will continue to struggle.

OTBC 

[Morph 19]

ZLF, you have to wonder what effect Worthy''s approach has on the moral of players on the fringes of the first team. What must Shackell think at this moment in time knowing that on paper he was in for a first league start with Eddy and Helveg injured and Charlton fielded whilst holding a slight injury. The "Fleming is on the team sheet so he must play centre half" can''t cut it for much longer. Sure Fleming is club captain but he should still have to earn his place just like everybody else. Just doesn''t seem to be the case anymore.

Like one of the earlier posters I had to listen to commentary from Roy and Neil and downright depressing listening it was too.

...