Worthington

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

I personally feel that Worthington has done an excellent job so far but think that he may have taken us as far as he can. Lets look at Mondays game and ask a few questions.

Why was Docherty dropped and not Fleming, after playing so long with ten men why wasn''t a subsitute (or two) used for the last ten minutes a  fresh pair of legs to run at a defence that didn''t look too secure. Why wasn''t Jonson substituted before he was sent off (remember Crouch at Walsall last season).

In previous games we have heard that certain players are not quite match fit after injury yet theres Henderson on the bench without any match action for months!

Earlier this season when Helveg was dropped we heard that he wasn''t training right but how many players in the past have been poor trainers only to be great match players.

If we go down I cannot see an immediate return to the Premiership until a completely different attitude is shown by the management. Crystal Palace play with a fire in their belly, Sheffield United held (a weakened) Arsenal side by playing and defending with passion, recently Preston drew with Ipswich playing with purpose  for ninety minutes how many times both this season and last have Norwich turned up for only part of a game. Either we are not fit enough or not mentally prepared for the game ahead.

But which ever division we are in I will be there. 

[Robbo007 0]

A few interesting points you''ve brought up there. I agree with you to a certain extent about the dropping of Doherty. I feel he has improved recently, and certainly hasn''t played any worse than Fleming. I disagree entirely about substituting Jonson, his first booking was clumsy, but apart from that he didn''t commit a foul. He was hardly a madman looking like he was going to get sent-off.

In principle, i agree about the need for fresh legs, but who exactly should he have taken off? Ashton and Mckenzie looked dangerous throughout (and we needed some sort of goal threat), Holt and Francis were still full of energy, and rarely are defenders taken off (we were fairly solid in defence i thought).

I still feel that some players don''t think we should be in the premiership. Vs Man City we got a 2-0 lead and played as if "they are better than us, lets defend deep for the rest of the game".

Continuity is the key and I feel worthy is the man

[LinkNR9 0]

I think that Worthy will get us back to the top of the Championship, as long as we keep Deano and Hucks (I think that Francis and Greeno might go). Palace won''t be able to hang on to AJ, and there''s no-one in the Fizzy League we couldn''t beat. However, has Worthy learnt enough this time round to keep us in the Premiership next time round?

[3pmkickoff 0]

Div 1 next season will be very tough, our saving grace will be that we''ll have the finances to strengthen quality wise in the summer and we''ll need to as the transfer window comes into effect outside the prem next season.

Not only that but I expect the likes of Leeds, Wolves, Leicester to push on then you''ll probably have the ambitious Hull and also the likes of West Ham etc

[Canarychick 0]

If we do go down and go straight back up, whats going to change to keep us up there?

[Peter 0]

Robbo your comments about Jonson are totally inaccurate he was running round like a headless chicken and got booked for his third needless foul.

Regarding next year we may have some money but can Worthy be relied on to spend it wisely, his excellent signings Hucks, Ashton and Francis are easily offset against the Turkeys Heckingbottom, Briggs, Helveg, Jonson etc. 

[Temp the Revelator 0]

Helveg a turkey?  On what basis do you make this judgement?  How many games has he actually played in his correct position?  When he has played at right back, he has looked a class apart.

[nolegs 0]

[quote]Helveg a turkey? On what basis do you make this judgement? How many games has he actually played in his correct position? When he has played at right back, he has looked a class apart.[/quote]

Helveg a turkey....with a yellow shirt on even looks like a butterball!

[Peter 0]

Helveg has played right back how many times ?, he has really impressed Worthy huh !.  A class act? he''s yet to prove it and until he does a turkey he will remain.

Thomas the turkey, gobble gobble! 

[Tumbleweed 106]

My main worry is that I don''t see that we have learnt anything or adapted at all to the demands of the Premiership which is surely the hallmark of a good manager. We ran away with the Championship last year- we should have been far better equipped than the other two to survive. Yet WBA did give us the runaround at Carrow Road and Palace look far more robust.

I have seen the same mistakes and the same faults all season. Poor passing, poor organisation, bad marking, sitting too deep (that happened quite a lot last year too actually), lack of communication, failure to get close enough to opponents with the ball, the freezing out of players, persistence with underperformers, too many poor signings........

I feel frustrated that we have got less than the sum of our parts this season and made things so much harder for ourselves than they should have been. Where the fault lies I do not know, but I feel that it may lay with the coaching staff rather than Nigel.

We really could have survived (OK, its still possible but hugely unlikely) and should have done so- even more galling with a record low number of points required.

[Splendid Rush 0]

He''s played right back perhaps 3 or 4 times and has been poor for 3 of them.  He''s gone in the summer no matter what happens.

 

[Archie 0]

I think the difference WHEN we get promoted again will be the fact we''ll have more money to spend, and this time we''ll be able to invest in some quality defenders and wingers. I''d hope that Shackell would have developed into a top player by then, and then get another centre back in with real quality

This assuming that we go down and come back up again...

[ZLF 274]

[quote]My main worry is that I don''t see that we have learnt anything or adapted at all to the demands of the Premiership which is surely the hallmark of a good manager. We ran away with the Championship las...[/quote]

I agree totally with your frustrations TW as we have been dicsussing these issues all season now with no evidence that the club is addressing them.

However the manager has to have a coaching certificate and in that respect worthy is probably the best qualified of the lot.  In addition he should be ensuring that his coaching team deliver what he wants. 

In my view Worthy must take at least an equal share of the blame for the lack of coaching development at the club.

OTBC   

[Morph 19]

Actually ZLF I''d be harsher on Worthy than that. He appears to have let personal relationships with players affect his judgement over whether those players should play.

With any other Premiership manager at the helm would Fleming still be on the teamsheet? Would Francis if he continues to disappear from games?

He appears to have let a few that have kept on his good side dominate the team line-up irrespective of their performances. Where''s Safri been? What about McVeigh? Why has it taken so long for Shackell to get in the team? And why Shackell at the expense of Doherty?

A player should be based on his ability not on whether he buys you a pint in the pub after the match, or whether he wears the captain''s armband.

...

[Tumbleweed 106]

I pulled away from having a go at Nige as he has got us back here (even if its temporary) and feel that its not right to start criticising when he has achieved so much. However you and I and others can see the evidence building that maybe Nigel may be good but not quite good enough to get us established in this division. But there''s no way I want to advocate change at this stage.

I am now concerned  that these bad habits could prevent us from an immediate return- we know just how damned competitive that league is.

[Canarychick 0]

[quote]My main worry is that I don''t see that we have learnt anything or adapted at all to the demands of the Premiership which is surely the hallmark of a good manager. We ran away with the Championship las...[/quote]

I have to agree with everything you have said.  At the beginning of the season I gave the benefit of the doubt that any match they lost was forgiveable because they were still "new" to the Premiership.  We have done nearly a season and, as you say, nothing has really changed.

In fact I think we played better at the start of the season than we are now.

[ZLF 274]

I am not supporting any kind of Worthy out campaign and honestly beleive he should be the manager to guide us back into the prem IF we go down.  I am also confident that he does learn from his mistakes - he took time to ''learn'' what was needed in the championship and I think he is doing the same here.  The only thing is he is not learning as quickly as I would like!

As you say somethings seem so obvious to put right and that is where my criticism is harshest - spotting the bleeding obvious and taking some action - we know he can be ruthless when it matters and when he is he usually gets the decisions right (Malky, Iwam, McVeigh, Mullers) but there is an undoubted bias that has hindered our season inplayer selection married to an apparent inability to coach any improvement into our defenders.

OTBC   

[Temp the Revelator 0]

I think a lot of people underestimate the effect our start to the season had on us - yes, we were playing well, and pushed some good sides really hard, but got no real reward for our efforts.  Consequently things were altered to try and get results, but by this time confidence was shot and injuries started appearing.

Don''t get me wrong, I am not looking for excuses for Worthy, I am neither pro nor anti Worthy - I do believe he is the best man for the job however.  It would be good to hear from a Charlton fan on how Curbishley performed in his first season in charge - I imagine it was quite similar to our situation now.  Worthy may not be perfect, but he has done enough for me to deserve the opportunity to prove he is good enough to get us up and keep us up - be that this season or two seasons from now.  I certainly never came into this season expecting easy survival!

I have long advocated a change in coaching at the club - for me, Livermore has never been good enough, hence the reason other clubs dispensed with his services in the past.  Promote Dave Williams to assistant manager, and replace Foley with someone else, then see what happens.......

[Tumbleweed 106]

I agree with you Canary chick. Even though we won precious few early games we were playing better and getting some key draws. We were described as Plucky Norwich, now its more often Crap Norwich.