After watching a very average team beat us 2-0 it looks like we need to improve and quick!

[Indy 3,343]

Yes it was a friendly, yes I have ready all the positive people give it some, including the "It''s only pre season and all about getting fit for the start of the seaon, match fitness and the like"

 

But we need to also consider that these matches, especially the last three we started with what everyone appears to think will be the line up at Fulham and boy did they look a poor comparison from the team Lambert motivated last year!

 

I''m not one who actually cared that Lambert went in fact I said the second season syndrome might not hit us as we had a good new manager in Hughton, but boy how negative does he set this team up to play! We were boring, slow and created bugger all, and I will say that 1 up front looks just that, isolated and frustrating is my verdict on that system. I can understand a 1 up front if the likes of Howson, Snodder and Pilks get up and support the lone striker but that never happened.

 

Not too impressed with Turner, not up to pace yet, Bennett looked solid at the back thought!

 

For all the negatives of not keeping the ball, given that Pilkington, Howson and Snodders all have ability to keep the ball and create chances why were they missing for the large part of the first half? Was E Bennett even on the pitch?

 

Saying that Johnson was very good and really looks on the game!

 

So in summery my first look at a Hughton Norwich side, which looked set up to be solid and to support the back line, but I''m affraid that the players on the pitch are not geared up for that, Snodders, Howson and Pilks are forward minded players who looked out of thier depth trying to defend in the first half!

 

I hope that we don''t start to see the old ways coming back in negative boring hump the ball to the lone stirker and hope that he links up the play with the midfield! (Worthing tactics of 2005). I have been converted by Lamberts way of keep ball and swift atacking football.

 

Am I concerned, yes as I don''t think Hughton knows these players yet and is trying something these players are not used to!

 

Well those who say it''s only a friendly Fulham is only 5 days away and we have failed to find the net in over 300 minutes of football against lower league clubs!

 

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,651]

Yeah that average team that finished 4th in one of the toughest leagues in the world - so average.

[Indy 3,343]

Sorry Bethnal, where did we finish in the top league in the world? that''s right 12th!

 

I''m not saying they are not a good side, but a Munich or Dortmond they are not!

 

Also they didn''t play at their best to beat us, having seen them last year a few times on the TV that was a pre-season jog for them and beat us comfortably!

 

My point is that we were at home and looked like the away side, the players looked lost in the way they should be playing! surely with 7 days to go we should look like a team which knows it''s shape?

[First Wizard 0]

You''ll get flack for this Indy, cracking post but put your tin hat on.

[Indy 3,343]

The thing is I''m not negative, Have been pro all signings, pro Hughton, still am, just a bit lost to see too many good things from that performance, given that the starting line up will be the same as the first half!

 

We look lost as to what to do with the ball! appart form give it back to them!

 

If this was with another two or three weeks to go I wouldn''t be too bothered but only 5 days to the season kick off it''s a tad worrying!

 

Still say we have some great players, Johnson, Howson, Pilks, Bennett and Holt so we have the spine of a greative solid team, but the manager needs to understand who his players are and the tactics to get the best out of them! He doen''t appear to have found that yet!

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,651]

[quote user="Indy"]

Sorry Bethnal, where did we finish in the top league in the world? that''s right 12th!

 

I''m not saying they are not a good side, but a Munich or Dortmond they are not!

 

Also they didn''t play at their best to beat us, having seen them last year a few times on the TV that was a pre-season jog for them and beat us comfortably!

 

My point is that we were at home and looked like the away side, the players looked lost in the way they should be playing! surely with 7 days to go we should look like a team which knows it''s shape?

[/quote]

Top League in the world is pushing it to be honest. How much of the Bundesliga did you watch last season? I went to see Gladbach live a couple of times and they are a very, very good team - would certainly have been pushing for top 6 in the Premier League in my opinion. Very well organised and incredibly hard to break down. Don''t believe the Sky hype that the Premier League is ''The best in the world'' - get beyond the top 4 or 5 clubs and the average team in England is probably worse than in the Budesliga.

 

I think it is silly to read too much into pre-season friendlies - shape and formation are things worked on in training more than in freindlies, I think everyone should look at last seasons freindlies too see they have very little relation to what happens in the season. Holt especially seems to barely run in pre-season, which is probably an extension of his poor training habits.

 

Even if Norwich line up exactly the same at Fulham I would expect to see a huge difference in preformance levels - shape and structure don''t really matter if players are only putting in around 70% effort to avoid injuries.

[Brucie 0]

As a player pre-season serves one purpose and one purpose only, to ensure you are fit. Your priority is to ensure that you get through it unscathed and 100% fit and available for the first game of the season.

No player in the squad has yet played at full tilt or pushed themselves in terms of commitment. Passing judgement based on a few friendlies where players are actively encouraged to "be sensible" is a waste of time so save your breath.

Expect to see a more energetic, dynamic and ambitious performance on Saturday. I for one cannot wait.

[Jim Smith 2,365]

Sorry I understand why people are concerned but I think you are going way over the top. Our midfield is basically the same as last season with the addition of Snodgrass. Do you think that the likes of Bennett, Pilkington and Howson have suddenly, over the course of the summer, forgotten how to pass the ball or become clueless? It was a pre-season game. They may well have been sitting back to work specifically on defending. Don''t read stuff into it that isn''t there. The way we played at Celtic in the friendly was no different to how we played last season.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy"]

 

Not too impressed with Turner, not up to pace yet, Bennett looked solid at the back thought!

 

[/quote]

Thought Turner did ok but Ryan Bennett''s horrific lack of pace to recover on the first goal was worrying - but then there were signs of that last season anyway.

 

[Indy 3,343]

For all you who keep goiong on about it''s only pre seaon! that''s the same for Borusssia, it was their pre season match too, yet they were well organised good on the ball and out classed us without too much effort!

 

It''s not like we have another month! It was a level playing field with the same motivation, pre season friendly for both teams, so why did one look like a league 1 side and the other a premiership side?

 

Bethnal, I know you can argue that Borussia are better than Norwich, I won''t argue with that (Not as they beat us easy) but we were at home and there should not be that type of gap in class!

 

Not looking at that, look at our performance and the managers reaction over the past three games, he''s also starting to point the fact that we aint scoring, is he worried!

 

It was a poor performance and one which I am concerned about given Fulham away is going to be a potential 6 point relegation match to start the season off with!

 

I still maintain that the players didn''t appear to gel, pass or move forwards with any conviction or speed! We should be match fit and motivated by now, we look another two three weeks away from that!

 

Just my opinion from what I''ve seen on Saturday! I hope after next Saturday I can post more flattering and positive response.

[paul moy 235]

Thing is, on the plus side we have the same players, but on the negative side we have had to change our manager. Lambert had an uncanny ability to change a struggling side in the first half of a game into potential world-beaters in the second, by tactics and motivation. Can Hughton do this ?  We will see, but it appears that he is putting emphasis on defence at the detriment to attack.  Personally, I don''t mind conceding a goal if we score one at the other end, but we''re looking as if the best we will get initially is not conceding a goal but also not scoring. 

The factor that gives me cause for optimism is that Birmingham last season, after a relatively poor start did knock in quite a few goals and improved as the season went on. I see us starting poorly in a defensive mode and improving as Hughton hopefully adopts more offensive line-ups as he realises points are becoming more important than reducing goals conceded.   

[Lambo 0]

[quote user="Brucie"]

As a player pre-season serves one purpose and one purpose only, to ensure you are fit. Your priority is to ensure that you get through it unscathed and 100% fit and available for the first game of the season.

No player in the squad has yet played at full tilt or pushed themselves in terms of commitment. Passing judgement based on a few friendlies where players are actively encouraged to "be sensible" is a waste of time so save your breath.

Expect to see a more energetic, dynamic and ambitious performance on Saturday. I for one cannot wait.

[/quote]

 

This!I''m not worried in the slightest about pre-season performances and results, as long as everyone is 100% match fit for the big KO it''s been a success.

[Jack Flash 13]

I guess that Celtic fans were making similar comments after their last friendly before their European Champions start. Who was it they lost to? Oh, yes. NCFC!  Puts pre season games into perspective, I feel.

[Indy 3,343]

GJP - I agree that Bennett was at fault and at times a little slow to read the game around him, but I believe he will learn.

 

Turner was OK, not going to say he was poor but I just thought he looked a bit laboured.

 

Paul Moy agree with the fact that Brum did start slow, didn''t their scoring start with the loan of Chris Wood from WBA a big unit up front? I see a trend here Ba at Newcastle a lone striker, Wood lone striker and Holt!

 

The thing is I think with Pilkington, Snodder, Howson and Johnson we have a solid and creative mifiled 4, yes I know both Pilks and Snodders prefer the left, but hey both can do a job either central or out right!

 

I want to see two up top and scoring goals, keeping the ball, playing from the back.

 

(I haven''t even bothered about Branets 5 minutes, he just looks well out of sorts)

[First Wizard 0]

Most of you who keep harping on about at last seasons success''s omit one vital factor.

 

Paul Lambert.

 

And guess what?

[William Darby 0]

Last year has gone, finished, history it means sod all now.What concerns me most is, we just aren''t going to score as many goals as last year. And I fear that our defence isn''t going to tighten up enough to counteract it as it where.  Hooton int Lambert, Hooton int going to play exactly the same way. There I''ve said it.What would change my fears would be a decent forward and defender to walk through the door by Saturday. However I just don''t see it happening.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy"]

GJP - I agree that Bennett was at fault and at times a little slow to read the game around him, but I believe he will learn.

 

Turner was OK, not going to say he was poor but I just thought he looked a bit laboured.

 

[/quote]

Yeah but Bennett isn''t going to suddenly find the pace he is lacking, he''s slow to get going and slow across the turf.

 

It''s always hard to tell what you can take from a friendly but the Turner/Bennett partnership is not one that fills me with a lot of confidence for the coming season. However, I am only basing that on the game against BM and we''ll have to wait for some proper games to know what they''re really like individually and together.

[Brucie 0]

Personally I would take a defender who is positionally sound, fairly good on the ball, strong in the air and full of potential ahead of one who can turn and chase a striker once the ball has gone over his head.

Or to put it another way would you rather have a Ryan Bennett or Richie De Laet at CB?

If we press the opposition midfield and fullbacks properly an accurate ball over the top shouldnt be a big issue. The key will be in having two sharp fullbacks. With Tierney fit again I am actually more concerned with RB than LB at present.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Indy"]

GJP - I agree that Bennett was at fault and at times a little slow to read the game around him, but I believe he will learn.

 

Turner was OK, not going to say he was poor but I just thought he looked a bit laboured.

 

Paul Moy agree with the fact that Brum did start slow, didn''t their scoring start with the loan of Chris Wood from WBA a big unit up front? I see a trend here Ba at Newcastle a lone striker, Wood lone striker and Holt!

 

The thing is I think with Pilkington, Snodder, Howson and Johnson we have a solid and creative mifiled 4, yes I know both Pilks and Snodders prefer the left, but hey both can do a job either central or out right!

 

I want to see two up top and scoring goals, keeping the ball, playing from the back.

 

(I haven''t even bothered about Branets 5 minutes, he just looks well out of sorts)

[/quote]

Interesting that some people are now criticising Bennett''s defending whereas last season, especially after the Man City debacle, I criticised him and caused quite an uproar. Like others though, I think he will improve but should not be immune to criticism if warranted.

[lake district canary 0]

A lot of worriers on this thread.   Can I try to add a bit of perspective here by saying that it is better to perform badly in the games before the season, because they would not want to go in having won all their pre season matches comfortably, scoring freely, as that can lead to a false sense of security.    Better to know that  they won''t really put in that 100% until it really matters.  The bottom line is that the players know that once the whistle blows at Fulham - its the real thing.     Wait till the Fulham game before you start worrying.    And as for the wailers and gnashers of teeth about Lambert''s style of football and Hughton''s style - lets just wait and see.     Lambert was not without faults and neither will Hughton be, but Hughton''s reputation and his history of managing shows he plays stylish, confident football.   We have the players to do that.

 

 

 

[Indy 3,343]

"stylish, confident football.   We have the players to do that." Here here LDC, so why has Hughton not managed to get the players to show this at any stage of Pre Season?

 

I think the problem is that Hughton has focused so much on the weak defence that the season has caught up with us now! Maybe the players will up the effort but it''s the lack of awarness and pace in all areas that has me concerned with 5 days left!

 

I would take a 0-0 at Fulham but I doubt we can keep a clean sheet! hope they step it up on Saturday! Like I keep saying they look two to three weeks behind in fitness and awarness than Borussia did, that worries me!

[GJP 79]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Indy"]

GJP - I agree that Bennett was at fault and at times a little slow to read the game around him, but I believe he will learn.

 

[/quote]

Interesting that some people are now criticising Bennett''s defending whereas last season, especially after the Man City debacle, I criticised him and caused quite an uproar. Like others though, I think he will improve but should not be immune to criticism if warranted.

[/quote]

To be fair, I did raise my doubts about Bennett last season. Particularly when he got beaten in the air by Tevez for a goal.

 

He also had a rubbish game against Liverpool but got away with it because of the mistakes made by Elliott Ward.

[lake district canary 0]

[quote user="Indy"]

"stylish, confident football.   We have the players to do that." Here here LDC, so why has Hughton not managed to get the players to show this at any stage of Pre Season? I think the problem is that Hughton has focused so much on the weak defence that the season has caught up with us now! Maybe the players will up the effort but it''s the lack of awarness and pace in all areas that has me concerned with 5 days left! I would take a 0-0 at Fulham but I doubt we can keep a clean sheet! hope they step it up on Saturday! Like I keep saying they look two to three weeks behind in fitness and awarness than Borussia did, that worries me!

[/quote]

 

 

Let me put the opposite view.   If we had won 2-0, that would have been great, the fans would be full of joy about the new season.   So we get to Fulham, on a crest of a wave thinking we''re going to do well, that we''re going to play fluently etc etc - and Fulham do us.    So will herald a wailing and gnashing of teeth that pre-season gave a false representation and that we''re not good enough!         

 

 

Its happened before.  A great preseason in 2009, fantastic positive feel about the season ahead and bang 7-1.......     Its been said many times - pre-season games are not a good indication of anything - either good or bad.    

 

 

Lets see how in the real thing before we cast any judgement.   Under the circumstances of a change of manager, new players etc etc, a few

boring 0-0''s would actually be quite acceptable.    Points on the board, build into the season without going overboard either way. 

 

 

[The Raver 0]

Hello, first post but thought I would add to the debate that Fulham lost 2-1 at home to Charlton on Saturday.

So by the logic of them losing to a Championship team and us to one in the Champions League, it should be a win for us this week.

Just goes to show how little can be read into pre-season games.  For the record, my money''s on a draw, which would be a good result.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Correction they were not a very average team. 4th in their league last season and in the champions league

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Borussia Mönchengladbach are far from an average side, if I was one of their fans I''d be incredibly insulted you consider a team that: 

Qualified for the Champions League last season

5 time winner of the Bundesliga 

hotly tipped to be in the title race for this year

An ''average team'' 

[Morisons Prozac 0]

Good lord, if Borussia Monchengladbach are average then Norwich are not even professional standard. OP clearly has no clue about foreign league football and has seperation issues over Lambert and won''t give Hughton a chance.

[Indy 3,343]

yes and already debated, finished in 4th on 60 points in a good to average league! Dortmund and Munich are the power houses in that leagu and we are a second season Premiership club! So at home should be on par!

 

It was the manner of performance that should concern everyone not the level of oposition, it wasn''t a Man U, Real Madrid or Dortmund

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,651]

[quote user="Indy"]

yes and already debated, finished in 4th on 60 points in a good to average league! Dortmund and Munich are the power houses in that leagu and we are a second season Premiership club! So at home should be on par!

 

It was the manner of performance that should concern everyone not the level of oposition, it wasn''t a Man U, Real Madrid or Dortmund

[/quote]

Eh? Really? You never answered my question to whether you actually watch the Budesliga. I would suggest if you think it is ''good to average'' you never have.

[Indy 3,343]

Have people forgotten that we are Premiership? But hey Fulham are full of international player so are you going to use that as an excuse next week?

 

Jeeps some people on here think Rangers and Celtic are power houses! Theyqualify for Champions league most years too!