18,508 with tickets available on general sale..

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Is there really any justification to spend millions on expanding the stadium?

 

Don''t shoot the messenger I was just askin''.......

 

 

 

 

[canarycat 27]

   Bang.......look at our average attendance by percentage  in the premier league this season  best in the league reckon we could easily sell out 35.000 in alot of games

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Maybe.. But there were 4,000 Celtic there tonight.

We only sell out because of the season ticket holders. If the capacity was 35,000 I bet we''d end up with less ST holders. Where were they all tonight?

 

 

 

[Ruddygore 0]

We were in Preston. Sorry.

(This is going to be a long thread)

Next!

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Certainly is gonna be a long thread if all the non-attending season ticket holders reply...

 

But this is kind of my point. It''s not having a pop at folk for not going. Just that so many renew their season tickets so that they can go when they want to and not because they want to go ever game. I was wondering if casual tickets were readily available would all the ST holders renew?

 

 

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Tuesday night friendly... errr I''d love to have been there but unfortunately I couldn''t take the day off to be there. Not a season ticket holder as I can VERY rarely get to games due to my work.Would a season ticket have got you in tonight? The season is over.I''d have loved to have been able to support Drury and to have seen Hucks play again and if it were on Sunday I''d be there- but no chance on a Tuesday for me.I think 18,500 was a very respectable turn out. I''ve been to weekend games at CR with smaller crowds in my time (Ads Drury probably has too!)

[Ruddygore 0]

No, sorry, was being tongue in cheek. It''s probably a valid point however I''m sure there are others like us who share our season ticket when we can''t make a game, the people we share with would buy casual tickets if they could but again they might not be able to make every game.

But, which particular League games have you noticed at home have been poorly attended? It won''t be until we reach a magical point where we have spare capacity and then people would start to moan about the odd empty seats.

[nutty nigel 7,649]

I know you were Ruddy buddy.

 

And of course there never are that many spare seats for home games because the ST holders either use buy back or sell them / pass them on.

 

 

[Redders Right Foot 22]

Lets do our best to keep in mind that this game took place on a Tuesday Night, In a Friendly/testimonial. 18k is a huge sell when you put those two factors together, I think the only clubs that would beat that are those in the top 4

[Chelmsford Canary 0]

Yeah I agree with post about it being played on another day than a Tuesday night.

Saturday or Sunday would have prob filled it!

[nutty nigel 7,649]

But we sell out for league games on a Tuesday night. I reckon the ST holders who can''t make those games pass/sell their tickets on or use buy back. I''m not criticising anyone, just wondering if the capacity was increased so there were loads more casuals available would we sell so many ST''s. I suspect not.

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

The attendance for a friendly match can only be compared with those for other friendly matches; and adjusted for opposition, time of year etc.

 

You are mixing up mangoes and bananas I''m afraid. And stringy mangoes at that!

 

Thankfully we can be confident that Bowkett and McNally know this.

 

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Well maybe you''re right Babes and maybe you''re not. What is an undeniable fact is that there''s a strong link between the debt of a new stand and relegation.

 

 

[AndyCanary 0]

Are you seriously suggesting we base our future stadium plans on the attendance of an our of season friendly on a Tuesday night?

F

M

L

.

[Jim Smith 2,349]

Nutty - there is a valid point re supply and demand and certainly i think certain games sell out because there are so few casual tickets on sale. That said it also works the other way because I know of a few fans who don;t even bother trying to get tickets because they just assume they can''t get them. We would also probably be able to offer more reasonably priced tickets if the capacity was bigger. I suspect what would happen if the capacity was £35,000 is that we would sell out for half a dozen games a season, probably get about 30,000 for most of them 9if priced correctly) and then for the odd game we would get about the same as we do now.

having said all that you cannot use a friendly as a barameter. i have a season ticket and live in London. I make the effort to get back for most tuesday night league games. I didn;t last night. I travel with 6 other season tickets holders and none of them went last night either. i suspect that several of the people who did go are people who don;t always manage to get intoCarrow Road for league games and therefore took the opportunity to go last night. For most of us the season has finished and we are in our off season break. For that reason I think they were always going to struggle to attract a sell out last night. if they had done it as a pre-season friendly when most of us would have been suffering withdrawal symptoms from football then i suspect it would have been different. 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

No. I was asking the question. I didn''t think I suggested anything. It may add to the debate if some of you explained why so many ST holders didn''t bother going? IMO it did contribute to the good atmosphere all around the stadium though.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Thank you Jim Smith[Y]

 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

Nutty

Of out little group of approx 12 season ticket holders only 2 went last night. We may be slightly disproportionate as many of us are exiles but if that is indicative of the level of take up by season ticket holders then actually last njights attendance suggests there is still very good potential there for larger crowds.

As for the reasons I went into a few above but:

1. Many of us live in London or elsewhere.

2. Not a league game.

3. Given that every game involves a day away from home then the summer is a good time to earn brownie points with the wife by not disappearing to watch football.

4. Season is over and its been a long 9and expensive) season.

5. Went to the last celtic game and found it all a bit unpleasant to be honest.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe.. But there were 4,000 Celtic there tonight.

We only sell out because of the season ticket holders. If the capacity was 35,000 I bet we''d end up with less ST holders. Where were they all tonight?

 [/quote]

Guess it shows how many ST holders live outside Norfolk. Several sitting near me wanted to come but couldn''t afford to. Not just the money but the time.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe.. But there were 4,000 Celtic there tonight.

We only sell out because of the season ticket holders. If the capacity was 35,000 I bet we''d end up with less ST holders. Where were they all tonight?

[/quote]

So you''re saying fans will chuck there STs in exchange for minimum £45 each game?

And tonight was only £15 

Myth busted imo.

[nutty nigel 7,649]

[quote user="The Pinkun Role Model"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe.. But there were 4,000 Celtic there tonight.

We only sell out because of the season ticket holders. If the capacity was 35,000 I bet we''d end up with less ST holders. Where were they all tonight?

[/quote]

So you''re saying fans will chuck there STs in exchange for minimum £45 each game?

And tonight was only £15 

Myth busted imo.

[/quote]

If the stadium doesn''t sell out then that £45 won''t neccessarily apply. Myth buster[;)]

 

 

 

[Harry 0]

I can only speak for myself Nutty, I was there last night and there were a lot of different faces in the snakepit, some were from the Barclay but I would imagine the majority were casual fans.

When/if the ground is expanded I will still have my season ticket as it is the most convenient way for me to pay for matches, I had my first season ticket for the Barclay in the early 80''s.

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Nutty

Of out little group of approx 12 season ticket holders only 2 went last night. We may be slightly disproportionate as many of us are exiles but if that is indicative of the level of take up by season ticket holders then actually last njights attendance suggests there is still very good potential there for larger crowds.

As for the reasons I went into a few above but:

1. Many of us live in London or elsewhere.

2. Not a league game.

3. Given that every game involves a day away from home then the summer is a good time to earn brownie points with the wife by not disappearing to watch football.

4. Season is over and its been a long 9and expensive) season.

5. Went to the last celtic game and found it all a bit unpleasant to be honest.

[/quote]

 

Think you hit the nail on the head here.  Several times.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Capacity has increased gradually over recent times from what c.24,000 to the 28,000 it will be next season and I believe that during this period the number of season ticket holders has increased.  If capacity increased further to 35,000 there isn''t any evidence to suggest that the number of season ticket holders will decrease, probably in fact the opposite.

 

If we were talking 40, 45 or 50,000 capacity I still don''t think the number of season ticket holders would decrease.  The ratio of season ticket holders to capacity would most probably be lower at 45 or 50,000, but I don''t think the number would decrease.  At such capacities we would probably have several thousand empty seats for some games, but we are not talking those capacities, we are talking about 35,000.

 

The club knows how many season ticket holders we have, how many are on the waiting list and there are probably some who would be interested in buying a season ticket but haven''t bothered joining the fairly long waiting list.  The club also knows how many casual tickets it sells for each game and also how many people try to buy a ticket once it is sold out (on the phone waiting, online etc etc) and there will still be those who they don''t know about as their mates have told them it''s sold out or the club has released a communication to that effect etc

 

A single, midweek post-season friendly game doesn''t tell us anything of merit on this subject.

 

I just don''t think that thousands of season ticket holders would not renew their season tickets and then pay casual ticket prices.  We aren''t talking a massive increase either and the increase in capacity would be split between 3 main groups, season tickets, casual tickets and away tickets. 

 

Are you implying something here or not Nutty?  If it were to be believed that thousands of season ticket holders bought those season tickets ONLY because it guaranteed that they saw the ''big'' games then one may be on to something and coupled with using Drury''s testimonial as an example of a less desireable game one could try and argue that attendances may suffer if capacity increased to 35,000.  How many games would your average joe class as a ''big'' game though?  4?, 5?, 8?, 10? And would it then make financial sense to pay full whack for those rather than buy a season ticket.  This theory would also have to assume that thousands of season ticket holders and those on the waiting list were all just fairweather fans / followers who wouldn''t think twice about not renewing.

 

But, why hasn''t this situation reared it''s head already?  What is the tipping point?  Is there a tipping point?  Increasing capacity by 7,000 does not mean 7,000 extra casual tickets, the 7,000 will be split between casuals, season and away.  The club isn''t stupid, they aren''t going to spend £20 million on something that will ultimately end up losing us money.

 

 

[Webbo118 0]

 I have two season tickets (myself and my son) and have been a supporter for 50 years (home and away). I have never attended a friendly or testimonial match and almost certainly never will. If the difference between last night and a competitive league match isn''t understood, there really isn''t a lot hope.  

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Certainly is gonna be a long thread if all the non-attending season ticket holders reply...

 

But this is kind of my point. It''s not having a pop at folk for not going. Just that so many renew their season tickets so that they can go when they want to and not because they want to go ever game. I was wondering if casual tickets were readily available would all the ST holders renew?

 

 

[/quote]

 

How many?[:^)]

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well maybe you''re right Babes and maybe you''re not. What is an undeniable fact is that there''s a strong link between the debt of a new stand and relegation.

 

 

[/quote]

 

What''s your opinion on the subject Nutty?  When do you think the time the time will be right to increase capacity or do you think that an increase is not needed and that we are probably at the optimal capacity as things stand (pardon the pun)?

[nutty nigel 7,649]

I don''t know all the answers. That''s why I asked the questions.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Well maybe you''re right Babes and maybe you''re not. What is an undeniable fact is that there''s a strong link between the debt of a new stand and relegation.

 

 

[/quote]

 

What''s your opinion on the subject Nutty?  When do you think the time the time will be right to increase capacity or do you think that an increase is not needed and that we are probably at the optimal capacity as things stand (pardon the pun)?

[/quote]

My opinion, for what it''s worth, is that many ST holders would not renew if there were always casuals available. How many? I don''t know. I''m also not anti the ground expansion. But I do believe large amounts of money spent on the stadium has to impact on the managers player budget. We had no choice with the Jarrold because the South Stand wasn''t fit for purpose. How much, if any, did expenditure on a new stand affect Wolves ability to remain in the Prem? How much, if any, has not having to invest on a new stand kept Stoke in the Prem? All valid questions as far as I can see.

 

 

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

I didn''t ask for the answers Nutty and I know you like generating debate, I just wanted your opinion, specifically on the building of a new stand. 

 

In my opinion it is a tricky one to get right - a fine balancing act - and yes if we built the new stand then got relegated the following season then obviously the extra debt would be a heavy weight hanging round our necks.  Obviously having that £20m debt would impact on what funds were available for the playing squad to try and get promotion and would have an impact on the players we kept and those we brought in.  Equally though if the club always thought, what if we get relegated then the new stand would probably never be built or at least would not be built until we were forced to and the current one was crumbling and had it''s safety certificate rescinded.

 

It''s certainly not going to be an issue on the scale of the Darlington Arena white elephant however!