Our strikers are not good enough

[vos 155]

Early days yet and lets see if a certain combination works. Against West Brom there was little service from the midfield who struggled to gain any control. Surman as usual was off the pace.When we did get a cross in Martin/Holt were too far apart to pose a threat.

I suggest we remain patient for a while. At least we have not spent millions on the likes of Torres etc who was outshone by Holt recently.

[6088m canary 0]

Spot on Vos....Strikers are only as good as their service and against WBA that was poor.Surman should have pulled the ball back to Hotl when sent through and that would have been a reasonably simple chance for him to take.Our fullbacks got forward but crossed into a box that contained only 2 Norwich players and generally 4 or 5 WBA defenders....where was our midfield?! I didnt once see a midfielder make it into the 18yard box in support. IMO our central midfield pairing were much too defensive (perhaps due to consistent CB errors) and the game was crying out for more support from them.WE need to get FOx and Wes back into the side.....tough one to work out how, but that''s the manager''s job. Might even be worth trying out Fox in centre with Crofts on right, Johnson on left and wes behind the front two.....means that both full backs will need to support but that is definitely part of their game so why not?!

[Gingerpele 0]

Wow.....

Outsiders reading this forum must think us Norwich fans are really pathetic. When were not getting into stupid argument/insulting each other were panicking for no good reason.

Look at it this way, we are supposed to go back down. Its the way it works, the new boys should be behind the pack. I personally think we have got the right strategy, and even if we do go back down, we have a brilliant Championship squad, who will then be prepared for going straight back up, with the vast majority still being mid 20s at the oldest (with a few exceptions of course). Were building a team/squad, not just buying players for immediate impact (although obviously we want that as well), to be honest i''m perfectly happy with the way we''ve started the season, could have been a lot better in front of goal, but i can really only see us improving over the season, and as long as we can pick up some points in the next two games, and then Swansea/Blackburn in October, we can probably then start to show our developing squad....

Instead of just moaning about defensive mistakes, rubbish strikers, poor tactics, pathetic referees, why don''t we look at the positives for a bit? I''m not saying don''t have a moan, you need to, being positive all the time is also the wrong approach, you need to know what your doing wrong to get it right, but at the moment reading comments on here, its as if our fans expected us to win the first 4 games, and not winning any is the end of the world and all our players are rubbish and were doomed...

[6088m canary 0]

I think the main problem is that we are not sending out a settled side or a solid game plan.The PL is tough and i dont believe anyone expected us to win all 4 games in reality.However, those games were there for the taking if we went about it in a different manner.  I believe much like Worthy, we are showing far too much respect to the opposition and thus stifling our natural game.  Without Fox and Wes in the side our midfield is static, with no creativity. We can inter pass between the midfield all day long but never look like penetrating.  It is a problem for Lambert since having only Fox anchoring a midfield is far from ideal. My main point was that the strikers cannot be blamed for what so far has been some pretty dismal service....all these moans for example about C.Martin needing 20 seconds to decide what to do.... if anyone actually saw the positions he was in, all it needed was a midfield runner to lay it back to and we''d have a shooting opportunity.  We have options either to play it wide with the 2 new wingers, or to narrow our midfield and play a lot through Wes.... both have their pros and cons, but sending out a side with one winger, 2 defensive midfielders and a wide left man who always looks to tuck inside, hardly ever going for the byline is not the right way to go about it.We are more or less where i expected us to be, but the frustrating thing is that we could have a lot more points on the board....thats not a moan, thats just an observation.  As for building for coming down and bouncing back, i wholeheartedly agree....we are going about it the way the likes of Bolton, WBA, Wolves have done and obviously have a long term strategy in place.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"] Look at it this way, we are supposed to go back down. Its the way it works, the new boys should be behind the pack. [/quote]

 

I''m pretty sure I read a statistic at the start of the season (maybe from Opta Joe on Twitter?) that of the thirty teams who have been promoted in the past ten seasons thirteen were relegated in their first season. Which suggests to me that this idea that all promoted teams are automatically favourites for relegation is a touch misguided.

[Salopian 1]

They may seem that at the moment, but I have high hopes of Vaughn, if he stays fit. So far he has played little football with the full first team, and he will take a game or two to learn their game and to get fully match fit.

On the others, I feel that Morison and Holt are Championship players - wholehearted triers, but lacking the real clinical finish consistently. The same probably goes for Martin and Jackson.It''s also early for Pilkington and Bennet. They have not scored yet, but they have played so little football. Both seem to have a good shot on them.

The midfield will have to carry some of the goal-scoring burden, of we shall be in a mess. Come January we may be in such a mess that we have to consider a big money outlay.

But who am I to judge? My conclusion is from the average of 11 chances we create each game in the Premiership, and our poor conversion rate. The players will learn. Most have come speedily from lower divisions and outside, and we can hope that one or two will adapt eventually. At the moment it all looks a big mountain to climb.

[Robert N. LiM 4,481]

good post, 6088. I''d like Lambert to concentrate on our team and worry about the oppo a little less.

Cluck, is this what you mean by PL''s inferiority complex? Given that he has a CL winner''s medal, presumably he feels he belongs. Do you think he doesn''t think the team belongs? Interesting if so, given that he bought most of them...

[ROBFLECK 132]

I''ve got doubts (our strikers, our defense...)but I think we''re all just nervous about the fact we ''ve not won and it looks like 2005 all over again. But I agree, it is still to early to conclude our frontline is crap, etc.. But it is blatant that we do not have a settled side yet, I don''t agree with the changeing round and rotating every week unless it''s forced upon us. PL is feeling his way into the prem league, just as the players are imo

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Mr. Bump"][quote user="Gamera"]I think to be honest we have too many strikers.

I was unsure about it, but since were playing martin, I can''t see why we didn''t blow all of the money for vaughan and morrison on one ''super striker''.

A 4-5 million pound striker may well have been more of a risk. But a calculated one. We would still have 5 strikers (Wilbraham included) but I feel we would have been far better off.[/quote]I agree but who could we have got for £4/5 million?[/quote]

Danny Graham who is currently terrifying defences springs to mind.

[Theres only one Martin Peters! 0]

The good news is we are not a million miles away from getting wins. Like others have said I think Wes needs to be fitted in and I have high hopes for Vaughan giving us that little bit extra up front as well as being the perfect foil for Holt, one thing we have seen is he is as tough as old boots. I seem to remember Everton fans saying he had strength and pace and that had he not had so many injuries he would have been a regular for them.

[. 0]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]good post, 6088. I''d like Lambert to concentrate on our team and worry about the oppo a little less.

Cluck, is this what you mean by PL''s inferiority complex? Given that he has a CL winner''s medal, presumably he feels he belongs. Do you think he doesn''t think the team belongs? Interesting if so, given that he bought most of them...[/quote]Lambert has a CL medal as a player. Managing a team is a completely different animal altogether. Equally the bulk of our squad have little or no Premier League experience.... so this is a whole new world for them too where some will shine and others struggle. With all of the hype surrounding this awful media driven league... it regularly gets the better of many ''so called'' super star imports who now litter the bargain basement at the end of each season. Potential failure will come under the glare of the world media and careers can be snubbed out in a trice at this level. Wouldn''t you be scared to some extent?Belonging is a state of mind and not something you can buy... and unlike Manchester City etc., Paul Lambert has had very little money to play with to keep us up with the ''big boys''. He will do his best for us as ever... and no doubt so will his team.

[Power Hamster 0]

[quote] user="Who Let The Fox Out ? ! ? !"]Blackburn survived last season with their top scorers only scoring 5 goals.

That''s Roberts, Kalinic, and Hoilett. 2 strikers and a midfielder.

If 2 of Holt. Martin, Vaughan or Morison get 5, and 1 of Bennet, Hoolahan, Pilkington get 5 we could survive.

They only scored 38 goals in total so we''re going to need everyone chipping in. I do think we''re going to need to score a few more than that (we''re hardly tight at the back) but I don''t think we''re going to have to rely on a 10-15 goal striker because they''re not available for less than 10m.[/quote]

This is a very valid point. Everybody seems to be going on about how you need a top-scoring striker at Premier League level, then they start going on about Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea etc. But we are talking about survival level, not top six! Looking at the league tables for recent seasons, I was quite surprised how many sides survived, often quite comfortably, with less than 40 goals scored. A good example is Wigan - their 40 goals last season was their best since 2006, yet they have survived 6 years in the top flight. In 2009-10 Birmingham scored only 38 goals and came 9th, while the season before that Fulham hit 39 and finished 7th.Admittedly this is not a scientific study, but the point is that you don''t necessarily have to score lots of goals to do reasonably well in the Premier League. In fact, I would argue that, at the bottom of the league it is usually the teams with the tightest defences who survive.If there is any spare money in January, I think PL needs to be buying defenders, not strikers.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Name a club ouside Manchester which is happy with it''s strikers after four games.

[ZLF 274]

Defence - despite the mistakes being costly I do think it will improve. CBs are ALL about partnerships, and so far we have not had the chance to build the first choice one. We do need to sharpen up quickly, but I do think De Laet and a n other need to be allowed time to gel. Naughton & Tierney are good going forward but need to remember to defend - neither can afford to sit and watch and point as we saw on sunday.

Midfield. Is a major worry for me. Yes it is hard working and neat and tidy but not creative; Bennett & Pilkington have not had enough quality in their crossing or passing (no one on teh end is as much about delivering to a person as the striker not having pace to get there - the crosser needs to be realistic - a cross is just an aerial pass into the box - if its to no one no matter how beautifully flighted it is it is STILL lost possession following a misplaced pass) And the anchor pair in the middle have to work harder - Bosingwa and Dorrans and just two examples of the midfield being out of position and allowing players time to shoot unhindered by midfield pressure. A third time wont be acceptable from crofts or johnson tomorrow. We have to move the ball faster, too many touches allows defences back, Only Hoolahan creates, passes into space or into a players path and without the need to stop and allow defenders time to reform their shape - but has not started all games yet - he is a must for me.

Strikers - again hard working but looking impotent. Too worried about a physical presence without enough thought to movement; Conceeding as many free kicks as you win is not enough. Hold and link up play has not been good enough. Martin has found the most space, no because of pace but because of his movement meaning he loses a defender, but he has not done this in and around the box, where we need it most and our shooting desire and accuracy has been found wanting, we have to shoot & hit that target and not try to wlk the ball into the net. Pace is a problem, but we are too static at this level, and yards of space can be found with intelligence and a good touch. Much more needed and Jackson being quick is not enough (no hold up play, lightweight and does not bring others into the game)

[St.John Cooper 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Name a club ouside Manchester which is happy with it''s strikers after four games.[/quote]

I would suggest Bolton are happy with 3 goals from Klasnic, I would be happy with 3 from 4 from one of our strikers and there are numerous players who have scored 2....but not one of ours

[Boris 56]

[quote user="St.John Cooper"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Name a club ouside Manchester which is happy with it''s strikers after four games.[/quote] I would suggest Bolton are happy with 3 goals from Klasnic, I would be happy with 3 from 4 from one of our strikers and there are numerous players who have scored 2....but not one of ours[/quote]

Ironicly same Klasnich with this 3/4 have very big chanse to start on the bench today so even they not happy lol

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Ok Klasnich.

Who else?

Precisely!!

It is simply far too early to tell.