Is the NCFC board ready, willing and able?

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I have just suggested that they campaign for a retrospective rebate waiver or they could suggest fans take up shares but then that would be too proactive for them. Silence.[/quote]

In theory, a good idea - in practice, at Xmas, in a recession, etc..., might be difficult to make that one fly.  I am reminded of the promotion season, and the preference shares that helped the club then though.
[/quote]

Thanks for that Bla, at that time I believe that NCISA bought both lots of shares to help.

But of course that could not be so as they are not proactive in their help T said so!

I am "us" Bla no sides, I don''t expect that. Just pointing out that the man you Nutty, Lapp are supporting has a very different opinion about you and your views (if you are allowed any)

[/quote]

But what have they done since ?  Motion to remove manager, vote of no confidence in the board.  Fair doos if that''s the view of the fan base, but where are we now ?  Is anybody running to the press to voice their support in the same way that they were to withdraw it when things weren''t so good ?  Or is it the old "delia isn''t seen unless we''re winning" thing in reverse ?  There''s no story in the NCISA''s opinion unless things are bad ?
[/quote]

Not true again bla.

When things are "bad" as you put it, the press are like bees and a honey pot. Always looking for quotes from people they see as "spokespersons". NCISA being the largest percieved supporters group they pick on them.

At present  no press person is bothered as the garden looks rosey. Is the press statement "we are happy" worth press coverage? How many happy news stories do you see.

I think the last statement,comment I heard was how pleased they are with McNally and Lambert.

In fact the NCISA forum that they attended was excellent compared with previous ones (were you there, did you bother to attend?)

The press and media attended and thus did their own quotes.

[T 190]

Last statement from NCISA on the website:

 

2nd July 2009

Are we the only voice of reason?

Whilst recognising the new season is only five weeks away and unity amongst supporters is important, the committee of the Norwich City Independent Supporters Association (NCISA) has concerns about the appointment of the club’s new directors.

NCISA’s committee is questioning the reasons behind the appointments.

John Tilson, chairman of the association, said, “Our previous chief executive was a board director and it did not work. Why hasn’t the club learned from this?

“The present majority shareholders absolutely assured the fans they were looking for new investment. Which of these directors has brought that to the table?

“And in appointing the managing director of Archant to the club’s board, can we assume there will be no further support for fans from local newspapers should things continue to go wrong at Carrow Road?

“Undoubtedly NCISA will receive criticism from some quarters for taking this stance, but we feel we must pose these questions on behalf of the large number of fans who passionately displayed their feelings at the public meeting in Saint Andrew’s Hall.”

“Of course, we must all get behind the team on the 8th August, but time will be the judge as to whether these appointments are good or bad. And NCISA will not be hypocritical by changing its stance without good reason - even at the eleventh hour.”
 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I have just suggested that they campaign for a retrospective rebate waiver or they could suggest fans take up shares but then that would be too proactive for them. Silence.[/quote]In theory, a good idea - in practice, at Xmas, in a recession, etc..., might be difficult to make that one fly.  I am reminded of the promotion season, and the preference shares that helped the club then though.[/quote]

Thanks for that Bla, at that time I believe that NCISA bought both lots of shares to help.

But of course that could not be so as they are not proactive in their help T said so!

I am "us" Bla no sides, I don''t expect that. Just pointing out that the man you Nutty, Lapp are supporting has a very different opinion about you and your views (if you are allowed any)

[/quote]But what have they done since ?  Motion to remove manager, vote of no confidence in the board.  Fair doos if that''s the view of the fan base, but where are we now ?  Is anybody running to the press to voice their support in the same way that they were to withdraw it when things weren''t so good ?  Or is it the old "delia isn''t seen unless we''re winning" thing in reverse ?  There''s no story in the NCISA''s opinion unless things are bad ?[/quote]

Not true again bla.

When things are "bad" as you put it, the press are like bees and a honey pot. Always looking for quotes from people they see as "spokespersons". NCISA being the largest percieved supporters group they pick on them.

At present  no press person is bothered as the garden looks rosey. Is the press statement "we are happy" worth press coverage? How many happy news stories do you see.

I think the last statement,comment I heard was how pleased they are with McNally and Lambert.

In fact the NCISA forum that they attended was excellent compared with previous ones (were you there, did you bother to attend?)

The press and media attended and thus did their own quotes.

[/quote]Don''t know where you get not true from Butler, I was asking which side of the coin the truth as you see it rests.  The bit in bold is the bit that you are agreeing with.As for your personal opinion, is "all bad until proven good" still the maxim with Bowkett et al in charge ?  It seems so from your position.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I have just suggested that they campaign for a retrospective rebate waiver or they could suggest fans take up shares but then that would be too proactive for them. Silence.[/quote]

In theory, a good idea - in practice, at Xmas, in a recession, etc..., might be difficult to make that one fly.  I am reminded of the promotion season, and the preference shares that helped the club then though.
[/quote]

Thanks for that Bla, at that time I believe that NCISA bought both lots of shares to help.

But of course that could not be so as they are not proactive in their help T said so!

I am "us" Bla no sides, I don''t expect that. Just pointing out that the man you Nutty, Lapp are supporting has a very different opinion about you and your views (if you are allowed any)

[/quote]

But what have they done since ?  Motion to remove manager, vote of no confidence in the board.  Fair doos if that''s the view of the fan base, but where are we now ?  Is anybody running to the press to voice their support in the same way that they were to withdraw it when things weren''t so good ?  Or is it the old "delia isn''t seen unless we''re winning" thing in reverse ?  There''s no story in the NCISA''s opinion unless things are bad ?
[/quote]

Not true again bla.

When things are "bad" as you put it, the press are like bees and a honey pot. Always looking for quotes from people they see as "spokespersons". NCISA being the largest percieved supporters group they pick on them.

At present  no press person is bothered as the garden looks rosey. Is the press statement "we are happy" worth press coverage? How many happy news stories do you see.

I think the last statement,comment I heard was how pleased they are with McNally and Lambert.

In fact the NCISA forum that they attended was excellent compared with previous ones (were you there, did you bother to attend?)

The press and media attended and thus did their own quotes.

[/quote]

Don''t know where you get not true from Butler, I was asking which side of the coin the truth as you see it rests.  The bit in bold is the bit that you are agreeing with.

As for your personal opinion, is "all bad until proven good" still the maxim with Bowkett et al in charge ?  It seems so from your position.
[/quote]

What position is that? I support my club it does not make me blind to it''s faults.

T quotes a statement made 4/5 months old things have changed since then (although it seems the web site hasn''t!!) on all fronts.

Would that statement have been wrong had Gunn still been in charge?

My opinion is McNally and Lambert and team is good.

I have yet to see or hear what Bowkett/ and Archant have brought to the table. The finances are still dire.

Expertise posibly, but not additional funds yet (they are badly needed)

It seems from statements made that the new directors will not be investing in the club, so we can ony hope their contacts are as good as T says.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Dear oh dear, what a tizzy they can get themselves in

One love, Fawlty.

Your serve.

Hurry up. Soon time for the Brighton match.

OTBC

 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="T"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Prove that those investments make sense by finding some other examples of clubs who can afford £1.9m or less out out of £19m revenue on their core product (or comparable figures) then T.  As apparently every football club is in the same dire financial position it should be easy shouldn`t it, yet you haven`t come up with a single example yet.  Preston could afford a much higher figure because their non-football costs were vastly lower than ours- simple as that.

Also, i have listed certain capex before for you to enlighten me as to how it raises extra cash for the team, but you did a disappearing act.  The Jarrold stand and hotel i feel were good decisions.  Everything else (and it`s a long and expensive list) has drained cash away from the football side and has seen us go from a football club which broke even on 16k crowds, to one which makes a £6m loss on 25k crowds and higher tv income and can only assuage that loss by flogging off its footballing assets leading to costly decline on the pitch.

[/quote]

I proved the examples using figures from Tangie. Prestons costs were lower because their revenues were lower. The off-field activities are profitable per the accounts. Without them we would be even worse off.

How would you make up the shortfall nearly all football club''s make from football activities.

Most footballers are not assets they are liabilities - you seem to be ignoring their wages.

Read the Deloitte report and then get back to me.

[/quote]

So again, you are saying it is better to be a club with £19m revenue which can only afford to spend £1.9m on its team than to be a club with £8.5m revenue which can afford to spend £5m on its team (NOT including exceptionals such as director investment and transfer profits)??

Come on, just come out with it if that is what you believe.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

I am "us" Bla no sides, I don''t expect that. Just pointing out that the man you Nutty, Lapp are supporting has a very different opinion about you and your views (if you are allowed any)

[/quote]

I don''t see who I am supporting unless T is Nigel Worthington. If he is could you please ask him why he snubbed the fans in getting rid of Danny Crow and signing Dion Dublin.

Disgraceful[:|]

[/quote]

T sounds more like Deals to me than Worthy.

If she is T, could you have them ask her why she did not allow Worthy to get in Ashton at the beginning of the last Prem season?

Thanks.

OTBC

 

[nutty nigel 7,585]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Dear oh dear, what a tizzy they can get themselves in

One love, Fawlty.

Your serve.

Hurry up. Soon time for the Brighton match.

OTBC

 

[/quote]

[Y][:D] Quality!

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="T"][quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="T"]

Then obviously your knowledge of business is up there with your understanding of finance.

PS - if you have unfortunate enough to ahve a visual impairment ability to go along with your limited grasp of business and fiannce then there are IT options which you may wish to avail yourself of.

[/quote]

What''s your credentials then? You could qualify for IBM....Incredible Bullsh*tting Man...For someone who portrays to be flying among eagles in the business world.....Your spellun are''nt very gud.....

Do you have a finance fiance? Is she high maintenance? (probably being a lot taller than you, even in her bare feet)... 

 

[/quote]

 

As I have intimated before I have reviewed a premiership club for a potential investor with a former professional footballer who then went on to become a leading expert in insolvency and worked at the very highest level in football administration. And when I say investor, I mean investor and not a benefactor. They were only interested in the property as football is not a viable investment unless you think making football players and agents rich is an investment. We have also worked on the acquisition of a champions league club. So those are my credentials and that is why I have some inside knowledge that you have alluded to. [/quote]

I suspect the former professional footballer you refer to use to be either the Chief Executive of the FA?  Wasn''t he in the press about a personal relationship with a former employee of the FA.?

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="T"]

Roeder''s comment was harsh but absolutely right and very amusing if politically inept!

[/quote]

Reminds me of Mr. Ratner!

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

?

Particularly now that it is alleged that they have turned down, whether rightly or wrongly. an offer by a local investor to pay the wages of an additional player.

OTBC

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

T stated: '' I do not know of a single plc in the UK where the CEO is not on the Board of directors. Need I go on.''

-----------------------------------------

Tangible Fixed Assets stated:

''You obviously don''t  know the recent history of NCFC. Plc.  As Neil Doncaster was Chief Executive of NCFC Plc. for at least two and half years before being appointed to the board of NCFC. Plc.''

 

''Source: He signed off the Chief Executive report of the NCFC. Annual Report for the year ended 31st May 2003 (pages 3 and 4) on the 1st December 2003.  On page 13 of the NCFC. Annual Report for the year ended 31st. May 2007, it shows that Neil Doncaster was appointed to the NCFC Plc. board on the 5th June 2006.''  

----------------------------------------------------

Lets remind people what I said to T earlier:

You have failed to grasp that NCFC Plc. is a small company and therefore like other small companies may not follow the norm of much bigger companies. Lets face it you have been found wanting when you stated that you didn''t know of any other Plc. that did not have their CEO''s on the board because NCFC Plc in its past has not immediately appointed the CEO to the Plc board. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

And from an earlier post Tangy made:

You are so predictable at swerving away from the issue. The issue was the difference between NCFC''s   COST BASE and Preston''s COST BASE. Revenues and how the funding gaps of each club is funded is a different issue.

As I have said before the near £10m. gap in the COST BASE can be partly accountable by the catering operation at Carrow Rd. and we pay our players more but that still leaves a sizeable difference to be explained. Even more so given that Preston are able to compete at the upper end of the Championship and we are in Division 3 (old money) for the first time in fifty years."

 

And the start of T''s response:

''1. I''ve always said that Tangie has a valid question''

 

 

But as a committee member of NCISA. I am suppose to have no business or finance knowledge!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="T"][quote user="The Butler"]

So it is OK for the NCISA to give it out but they can''t take it?

T Please try and stick to the point.

You are doing your usual, when argument fails lets fall back on attacking NCISA and hope the red herring works.

Simple question " Has the policies adopted by the board over the last few years been the correct ones and have they been succesful?"

If not is it reasonable to question those policies? Bearing in mind the Public arena in which the club operates.

Now that is from The Butler, not NCISA or even Uncle Tom Cobley.

 

[/quote]

If the policy of seeking to raise additional funds then yes that is entirely correct as football is not viable.If the NCISA does not support this policy then they should be campaigning for an increase in ticket prices. The appointment of managers has clearly failed as we have underperformed our mid-table championship financial position. I agree with NCISA that the appointment of BG did not look clever. I''m sorry but the CVs of the NCISA look lightweight compared with the Associate Directors who came up with some proposals and are actually changing things.To be fair to the chairman he did say that they were not looking for a place on the Board as they are clearly not qualified. I would like to see Nutty on the Board as he is clearly a dedicated fan with a good commonsense understanding of all sides of the arguments but I''m afraid as much as I think Worthy was our best manger in recent times I do think we need to move on just as the NCISA needs to move on and recognise that the owners have changed the management team. The comment on the CEO was just plain embarrassing and campaigning to reduce the player budget was just childish. That is my problem with the NCISA. They don''t mean to but through their ignorance they actually are trying to work against the success of the club that I support.

[/quote]

Is that because instead of confronting issues head on, they spend too much time messing around ensuring that they make top knobs like you as well as their membership happy???

Who will you, NCISA and everybody else blame when/if we do not win promotion this season, or alternatively when/if we win promotion only to struggle yet again in the Championship under the current stewardship of our wonderful new directors???

[nutty nigel 7,585]

That''s an interesting question that really deserves an answer Smudger[Y]

 

[Smudger 0]

I think you and I both know the answer don''t we Nutty? [:^)]

I wonder when them stickers and mugs will finally go to press?  I wonder if it will all end in tears or happy ever afters???

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

T stated: ''I proved the examples using figures from Tangie....... The off-field activities are profitable per the accounts.''

 

----------------------------------------

Please explain to the readers of this bb. how the purchase of the ex LSE land and ex Norwich City Council land are currently profitable?

 

Add half the last arrangement fee (for rolling over the £2.5m loan in December 2008 and its due for repayment in December 2010) to the annual interest bill and its probably costing £300k a year for exactly what? Its not entertaining, its not helping us buy any more player registrations. Its just a drain on the clubs resources.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Please explain to the readers of this bb. how the purchase of the ex LSE land and ex Norwich City Council land are currently profitable? Its just a drain on the clubs resources.[/quote]So Tangy, you are forever reminding us of this land deal so, putting whether it was a good or bad decision aside, what would you advise the board to do with it now? Would you sell it at a loss or keep it until the prices recover?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Please explain to the readers of this bb. how the purchase of the ex LSE land and ex Norwich City Council land are currently profitable? Its just a drain on the clubs resources.[/quote]So Tangy, you are forever reminding us of this land deal so, putting whether it was a good or bad decision aside, what would you advise the board to do with it now? Would you sell it at a loss or keep it until the prices recover?[/quote]TANGY HAS PREVIOUSLY STATE THAT HE WOULD KEEP THE LAND UNTIL THE PRICES RECOVER !EX-TERMINATE !!!!!!LOL !!!!!!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Please explain to the readers of this bb. how the purchase of the ex LSE land and ex Norwich City Council land are currently profitable? Its just a drain on the clubs resources.[/quote]So Tangy, you are forever reminding us of this land deal so, putting whether it was a good or bad decision aside, what would you advise the board to do with it now? Would you sell it at a loss or keep it until the prices recover?[/quote]

Lappinitup - I only mentioned the and just to remind people that not all off the pitch activities are profitable on an annual basis.

If the land is worth say £4m now (assuming we can find a buyer) and the cost of servicing the debt (including half the arrangement fee per year) is £300k.....then the land needs to go up 7.5% a year just to cover the servicing costs for this financial year.   If you think the market will recover in three years to produce a valuation of £10m for the land then in effect we need an increase of 36% per year.  So Lappinitup the answer really is do you think the market is going to increase at anything like 36% p.a. for the next three years?

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Please explain to the readers of this bb. how the purchase of the ex LSE land and ex Norwich City Council land are currently profitable? Its just a drain on the clubs resources.[/quote]So Tangy, you are forever reminding us of this land deal so, putting whether it was a good or bad decision aside, what would you advise the board to do with it now? Would you sell it at a loss or keep it until the prices recover?[/quote]

TANGY HAS PREVIOUSLY STATE THAT HE WOULD KEEP THE LAND UNTIL THE PRICES RECOVER !

EX-TERMINATE !!!!!!

LOL !!!!!!
[/quote]

LOL!  Blah x 3 is now a Dalek

Its time for the dog to go to sleep in its kennel. The weather is turning bad.......

 

[lappinitup 629]

Thanks for answering my question with a question Tangy. I''ll try again. What would you advise the board to do with the land at this moment in time if they asked  for your help?

[Mello Yello 2,302]

What''s a copy typist?....Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?.........[:|]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"]Thanks for answering my question with a question Tangy. I''ll try again. What would you advise the board to do with the land at this moment in time if they asked  for your help?[/quote]

Depends on how desperate they are for cash......of course you could try your hot line to The Stowmarket Two.

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="lappinitup"]Thanks for answering my question with a question Tangy. I''ll try again. What would you advise the board to do with the land at this moment in time if they asked  for your help?[/quote]

Depends on how desperate they are for cash......of course you could try your hot line to The Stowmarket Two.[/quote]Why won''t you answer a straight forward question Tangy?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="lappinitup"]Thanks for answering my question with a question Tangy. I''ll try again. What would you advise the board to do with the land at this moment in time if they asked  for your help?[/quote]

Depends on how desperate they are for cash......of course you could try your hot line to The Stowmarket Two.[/quote]Why won''t you answer a straight forward question Tangy?

[/quote]

I have already if you read the appropriate post. Its time for you to stop playing your game.

Have a nice night! 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]What''s a copy typist?....Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?.........[:|][/quote]

Ask Monica Lewinski or Bill(i Never touched her) Clit on

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

With reference to a post made on the 17/11/09 at 11:13am. on this thread.

[quote user="T"]

4. .............................................. The new Chairman and CEO have more aggressive business backgrounds and I have no dount that they are making the redundancies at NCFC  that the NCISA committee member advocates.

[/quote]

 

But as a committee member of NCISA. I am suppose to have no business or finance knowledge!

 

 

 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

With reference to a post made on the 17/11/09 at 11:13am. on this thread.

[quote user="T"]

4. .............................................. The new Chairman and CEO have more aggressive business backgrounds and I have no dount that they are making the redundancies at NCFC  that the NCISA committee member advocates.

[/quote]

 

But as a committee member of NCISA. I am suppose to have no business or finance knowledge!

 

 

 

[/quote]

T backed Doncaster to the hilt, now our Chairman is a chap who was highly critical of Doncaster and appears to be running the club very differently, he`s 100% correct too according to T!  Still, consistancy has never been one of his strong points.  But i now understand and accept the valuable lesson T has bestowed on us-  whatever any CEO, Chairman, Director or majority shareholder do, they are always right.  Even when they are wrong.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

With reference to a post made on the 17/11/09 at 11:13am. on this thread.

[quote user="T"]

4. .............................................. The new Chairman and CEO have more aggressive business backgrounds and I have no dount that they are making the redundancies at NCFC  that the NCISA committee member advocates.

[/quote]

 

But as a committee member of NCISA. I am suppose to have no business or finance knowledge!

 

 

 

[/quote]

T backed Doncaster to the hilt, now our Chairman is a chap who was highly critical of Doncaster and appears to be running the club very differently, he`s 100% correct too according to T!  Still, consistancy has never been one of his strong points.  But i now understand and accept the valuable lesson T has bestowed on us-  whatever any CEO, Chairman, Director or majority shareholder do, they are always right.  Even when they are wrong.

[/quote]

Its like the way he swerves around the fact that the ex LSE and ex Norwich City Council land are not profitable on annual basis:

Add half the last arrangement fee (for rolling over the £2.5m loan in December 2008 and its due for repayment in December 2010) to the annual interest bill and its probably costing £300k a year for exactly what? Its not entertaining and it is just a drain on the clubs resources.