Is the NCFC board ready, willing and able?

November 12, 2009

I''m sure Tangy is right that some people have made some money out of football somewhere along the line as a result of the influx of wealthy inverstors- it is just not the norm. But to talk about revenues compared to costs is not swerving it is absolutely basic financial analysis and commonsense. You have to look at revenues and costs together otherwise it is a complete and utter nonsense which I''m sure you know all to well!!! having sadi that I don''t doubt gievn his treatment og Gunn that the new is making the redundancies tat carrow Road that Tangy advocates

CanaryPurple · November 12, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Mandraic or however you spell his name, probably doubled his wealth when he sold Portsmouth.

[/quote]A non-member of the CGFPA writes:No. At the time Mandaric was worth £75m. What he got for Portsmouth has never been revealed, but the generally accepted figure is £30m. Even the very highest estimates only go up to £45m.

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · November 12, 2009

[quote user="CanaryPurple"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Mandraic or however you spell his name, probably doubled his wealth when he sold Portsmouth.

[/quote]

A non-member of the CGFPA writes:

No. At the time Mandaric was worth £75m. [/quote]

I think we will agree to differ about the £75m !!

canary cherub · November 12, 2009

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Canary Cherub,

Is there a hint contained within your phrase "scotch mist"?

[/quote]

Not consciously, but now you come to mention it . . . [;)]

He just can''t stay away can he? [:)]

CanaryPurple · November 12, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="CanaryPurple"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Mandraic or however you spell his name, probably doubled his wealth when he sold Portsmouth.

[/quote]A non-member of the CGFPA writes:No. At the time Mandaric was worth £75m. [/quote]

I think we will agree to differ about the £75m !!

[/quote]Tangible, it''s not me you differing with! More the Rich List of 2000 (which had him at £75m) and the equally-respected fourfourtwo list which had him at the same amount when he sold Portsmouth.But I''m happy to acknowledge that some (a very few) owners can make money when they sell. And this was probably the case with Mandaric and Portsmouth. Where I am with T is that no-one ever made their fortune through football. And I suspect most lose money. It is the dry-land equivalent of that old saw about yachting being like standing under a cold shower tearing up £50 notes.

Mello Yello · November 12, 2009

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Divnah knar whit yez talkin aboot yah borin'' tossah.....Arz justa fat Geordie.....(apparently). Oh, and tomorrow, I''ll be a binner......(probably)....

Well, this forum is quite evidently divided....I know where I sit.....and you sit where you sit.....

I''m not really a binner, or a fat Geordie....Are you a borin'' tossah though?....(apparently)....(probably)....

[/quote]

If I''m so borin'', why dignify my post with a reply ?

The Geordie nation haven''t been very successful at moanin'' an'' whinin'' an'' whingin'' Cashley out of St James''es, have they ? Oh, sorry, that''s sportsdirect.com@stajameses''park.nutjob now isn''t it...
[/quote]

Relax, there''s only me that thinks you''re boring....

Mello Yello · November 12, 2009

Delia and Michael will not be out of pocket when they step down or stand aside.....But, they''re here for a long time yet.

November 13, 2009

I can''t see anyone coming in for NCFC at the moment in the current economic climate and current league position. If the fifth richest people in the region bailed out it is unlikely anyone else will want to throw cash down the drain of a football club. It would not surprise me if a certain Mr PC came back on the scene and is willing to offer some money for the shares rather than nothing when he finally sells his business but I can''t see the market for 3 billion private deals coming back before 2012. But then if I''m agreeing with MY it probably means I''m talking complete and utter rubbish.

Mello Yello · November 13, 2009

[quote user="T"]I can''t see anyone coming in for NCFC at the moment in the current economic climate and current league position. If the fifth richest people in the region bailed out it is unlikely anyone else will want to throw cash down the drain of a football club. It would not surprise me if a certain Mr PC came back on the scene and is willing to offer some money for the shares rather than nothing when he finally sells his business but I can''t see the market for 3 billion private deals coming back before 2012. But then if I''m agreeing with MY it probably means I''m talking complete and utter rubbish.[/quote]

Have I upset you?.....I''m sorry.

But I have to upset you some more....

BlyBlyBabes · November 13, 2009

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Divnah knar whit yez talkin aboot yah borin'' tossah.....Arz justa fat Geordie.....(apparently). Oh, and tomorrow, I''ll be a binner......(probably)....

Well, this forum is quite evidently divided....I know where I sit.....and you sit where you sit.....

I''m not really a binner, or a fat Geordie....Are you a borin'' tossah though?....(apparently)....(probably)....

[/quote]

If I''m so borin'', why dignify my post with a reply ?

The Geordie nation haven''t been very successful at moanin'' an'' whinin'' an'' whingin'' Cashley out of St James''es, have they ? Oh, sorry, that''s sportsdirect.com@stajameses''park.nutjob now isn''t it...
[/quote]

Relax, there''s only me that thinks you''re boring....

[/quote]

Hmmm....

OTBC

singing canary · November 13, 2009

your right carlos maybe 2 or three loan players in the mix would give us cover if needed . we have gone from one extreme to the other .a team full of loan players to only one .

Smudger · November 13, 2009

[quote user="T"]My statement was not "which owner made money out of owning a football club" as Butler misquoted- it was very deliberately "which owner made their fortune by investing in football clubs". Just as I said owners rather than MWJ/DS when I talked about subsiding the club this year. No doubt there is someone but I can''t think of anyone as Nutty says most owners lose money subsidising football clubs so I''m still waiting for an appropriate reposte. But Butler is right football clubs do have a "bauble" value and therefore it is understandable that the owners do not want to give away control of the club for free. Big Fish is right thought that these are tired old arguments. The owners have appointed new executive maangement ( i do wonder how the owners managed to entice our new CEO and how they got our new chairman on Board though for which they deserve credit): I for one am enjoying the football at the moment as I usually do whatever happens as it is preferable to being a miserable whinging git..[/quote]

Well what a stupid question T and one which just about sums up everything that you say.

How can somebody invest in a football club in the first place unless they have serious money behind them? I would still like to wager that most people who have owned football clubs in the top two tiers of English Football over the last 20yrs or so have actually profited in both monetary and other ways since becoming involved with that particular club.

How about you start naming a few people who have been made personally bankrupt from being involved with running a football club, if as you claim it is such a drain on owners personal finances???

Smudger · November 13, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user=""]

My point was which football owner got rich in the first place by putting money into football - I can''t think of anyone.[/quote]

While the Edwards family had a butchery business, their family wealth increased considerably as a result of selling their holding in Manchester United.

Mandraic or however you spell his name, probably doubled his wealth when he sold Portsmouth.

[/quote]

Two reasonable examples of people increasing their wealth as a result of owning a football club, added to somebody elses Mr Sullivan & Mr Gold.

We are still waiting for ''T'' to give us the names of a couple of individuals who have been made personally bankrupt as a result of owning a football club... [O]

Smudger · November 13, 2009

[quote user="CanaryPurple"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="CanaryPurple"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Mandraic or however you spell his name, probably doubled his wealth when he sold Portsmouth.

[/quote]

A non-member of the CGFPA writes:

No. At the time Mandaric was worth £75m. [/quote]

I think we will agree to differ about the £75m !!

[/quote]

Tangible, it''s not me you differing with! More the Rich List of 2000 (which had him at £75m) and the equally-respected fourfourtwo list which had him at the same amount when he sold Portsmouth.

But I''m happy to acknowledge that some (a very few) owners can make money when they sell. And this was probably the case with Mandaric and Portsmouth. Where I am with T is that no-one ever made their fortune through football. And I suspect most lose money. It is the dry-land equivalent of that old saw about yachting being like standing under a cold shower tearing up £50 notes.[/quote]

What do your comments add to what Tangy was telling us?

You tell us how much Mandaric sold Portsmouth for, so how much did he buy them for and did he make a profit???

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · November 14, 2009

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

blahblahblah · November 14, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

[/quote]

Back to my original point - D & M have done the opposite of these people. Rather than try to make money for themselves, they have tried to make their club sustainable long term. Can you say the same of any of the above, especially when you look at the parlous state of Hull ( whose chairman has described himself as "not quite rich enough to be a Premier League chairman", and Portsmouth...

Mello Yello · November 15, 2009

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

[/quote]

Back to my original point - D & M have done the opposite of these people. Rather than try to make money for themselves, they have tried to make their club sustainable long term. Can you say the same of any of the above, especially when you look at the parlous state of Hull ( whose chairman has described himself as "not quite rich enough to be a Premier League chairman", and Portsmouth...

[/quote]

Delia''s created the club that she''s wanted....

BlyBlyBabes · November 15, 2009

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

[/quote]

Back to my original point - D & M have done the opposite of these people. Rather than try to make money for themselves, they have tried to make their club sustainable long term. Can you say the same of any of the above, especially when you look at the parlous state of Hull ( whose chairman has described himself as "not quite rich enough to be a Premier League chairman", and Portsmouth...

[/quote]

Delia''s created the club that she''s wanted....

[/quote]

Baaa....Baaa.....Baaa.....

OTBC

November 16, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

[/quote]

Tangie, thanks for providing further examples to prove the argument that I was making - although there is no argument _ I''m merely pointing out the position pointed out by the likes of people who know what they are talking about such as Deloittes as PC, the reality of which some people on here which to ignore.

Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? · November 16, 2009

[quote user="T"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Other people who have made money out of football:

Halls - Newcastle

Lord Sugar - Tottenham

The guy now at Leeds from his time at Chelsea when sold to the Russian

The Irish guys - Sunderland

[/quote]

Tangie, thanks for providing further examples to prove the argument that I was making - although there is no argument _ I''m merely pointing out the position pointed out by the likes of people who know what they are talking about such as Deloittes as PC, the reality of which some people on here which to ignore.

[/quote]

We know some clubs get subsidies however you continue to swerve away from dealing with the issue of the cost base so let me remind you of the issue:

You are so predictable at swerving away from the issue. The issue was the difference between NCFC''s COST BASE and Preston''s COST BASE. Revenues and how the funding gaps of each club is funded is a different issue.

As I have said before the near £10m. gap in the COST BASE can be partly accountable by the catering operation at Carrow Rd. and we pay our players more but that still leaves a sizeable difference to be explained. Even more so given that Preston are able to compete at the upper end of the Championship and we are in Division 3 (old money) for the first time in fifty years.

lappinitup · November 16, 2009

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Even more so given that Preston are able to compete at the upper end of the Championship and we are in Division 3 (old money) for the first time in fifty years.[/quote]Couldn''t be the fact they choose better managers than us over the last few years could it? Nope, must be the money! [:^)]

The Butler · November 16, 2009

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Even more so given that Preston are able to compete at the upper end of the Championship and we are in Division 3 (old money) for the first time in fifty years.[/quote]Couldn''t be the fact they choose better managers than us over the last few years could it? Nope, must be the money! [:^)][/quote]

It couldn''t be anything to do with a cheap option that got us the last crap manager could it?

Duncan Edwards · November 17, 2009

If tangible spent as much time flicking beans as he does counting them, the money he earned as an international porn star would bail us out and probably fund a sustained assault on the prem...[:D]

November 17, 2009

"We know some clubs get subsidies however you continue to swerve away from dealing with the issue of the cost base so let me remind you of the issue:

You are so predictable at swerving away from the issue. The issue was the difference between NCFC''s COST BASE and Preston''s COST BASE. Revenues and how the funding gaps of each club is funded is a different issue.

As I have said before the near £10m. gap in the COST BASE can be partly accountable by the catering operation at Carrow Rd. and we pay our players more but that still leaves a sizeable difference to be explained. Even more so given that Preston are able to compete at the upper end of the Championship and we are in Division 3 (old money) for the first time in fifty years."

1. I''ve always said that Tangie has a valid question so why does he not ask the club via the NCISA rather than myself as neither will of us know the answer without access to the detailed mangement accounts and mangement explanations.

2. However it is riduclous to look at the costs without also looking at the revenues and the costs as a percentage of revenues rather than in just absolute terms. It would be equally ridiculous for Tangie to praise the Board for having higher revenues than Preston whilst ignoring the costs.

3. Also it is ridiculous to ignore that Preston is also funded by player sales and shareholder cash injections according to the published accounts as arethe majority of football otherwise what is the point of raising the issue.

4. Tangie also seems to ignore that we now have a new Chairman and CEO since he raised this issue so he is living in the past. The new Chairman and CEO have more aggressive business backgrounds and I have no dount that they are making the redundancies at NCFC that the NCISA committee member advocates.

5. NCFC had a football budget of 8.5m last year which was at least mid-table finacially. NCFC were relegated for football rather than financial reasons.

6. The owners of he club have shown that they are willing to take on new suggestions and new management by appointing members of the Associated Directors group so why doesn''t the NCISA also seek to make a similar valuable contribution rather than just whinging. Clearly with the above statements and ignorant staetments such as the CEO should not be on the Board only serves to demonstrate that the NCISA committee has no knowledge of football, business or finance. Perhaps it is time for the NCISA to do the decent thing as the ownes of NCFC have doene and realise the current team is not up to it and needs to be changed.

blahblahblah · November 17, 2009

[quote]1. I''ve always said that Tangie has a valid question so why does he not

ask the club via the NCISA rather than myself as neither will of us

know the answer without access to the detailed mangement accounts and

mangement explanations.[/quote]Because people don''t come on here to get answers, people come on here to be right.

GMF · November 18, 2009

"6. The owners of he club have shown that they are willing to take on new suggestions and new management by appointing members of the Associated Directors group so why doesn''t the NCISA also seek to make a similar valuable contribution rather than just whinging. Clearly with the above statements and ignorant staetments such as the CEO should not be on the Board only serves to demonstrate that the NCISA committee has no knowledge of football, business or finance. Perhaps it is time for the NCISA to do the decent thing as the ownes of NCFC have doene and realise the current team is not up to it and needs to be changed."

The silence from NCISA is deafening!

The Butler · November 18, 2009

[quote user="GMF"]"6. The owners of he club have shown that they are willing to take on new suggestions and new management by appointing members of the Associated Directors group so why doesn''t the NCISA also seek to make a similar valuable contribution rather than just whinging. Clearly with the above statements and ignorant staetments such as the CEO should not be on the Board only serves to demonstrate that the NCISA committee has no knowledge of football, business or finance. Perhaps it is time for the NCISA to do the decent thing as the ownes of NCFC have doene and realise the current team is not up to it and needs to be changed." The silence from NCISA is deafening![/quote]

Perhaps you should uncover your eyes as well as your ears.

BigFish · November 19, 2009

[quote user="T"]