A few simple facts about shares

[blahblahblah 2]

There is a pdf of the supporters trust application form here

[Ren 75]

[quote user="Ankles50"]

Thing is are any of you actually confident of our current Board with any additional money?? Track record would dictate getting it wrong in off field spend & backing the wrong manager (which they''ve done again) to spend on the field.

Throwing more money at incompetants will not solve the dilema NCFC find themselves in

[/quote]

Good point well made.  However the club is on its knees and help is needed.  After cooling down (a little) post relegation I would wave my rebate, if I got something back in return.  NCFC are not a charity and as I have said earlier I am not paying D2 prices for D3 football. Maybe I should just take the money and go buy a load of stuff in the club shop!  Might be easier!

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Ankles50"]Throwing more money at incompetants will not solve the dilema NCFC find themselves in[/quote]Got any other ideas ?  At least Butterworth knows league 1, and having worked at Cardiff probably has a fair idea of how to get out of it the right way.

[Ankles50 0]

I would have asked for prudence, ncfc know that word, and not appointed a manager yet.  It was neccessary to have done so and a more ideal candidate may have stepped forward who has experience at lower level working on tight budgets

The Board jumped the Gunn and in so doing removed any chance recovering and of being an attractive investment

[Bury Yellow 2]

Credit to you LQ for giving some thought but I am with Ankles50 as are all my Bury Yella mates.

If I had a million quid that i wanted to put into my beloved club it would stay firmly in my wallet until this board had gone.

Who in their right mind would give this lot any more money. I am a shareholder and have small monies invested (!).

Sorry but it gets back to the nitty gritty - do they want to sell the club at market value or are they looking for idiots to invest.

It''s a no-brainer I''m afraid.

My mate Andy Larkin has apparently got into some trouble from the boards Gestapo, so I too will not go into specifics.

[LQ 0]

With all due respect buying stuff in the Club shop isn''t going to help to the same degree because of the actual cost to the Club of whatever you buy.We need money to get Norwich City out of this stupid league, that is the basic fact. I think some people may think more about who ''owns'' the Club than the Club itself. Until someone comes in with multi-millions to throw away we''re stuck with what we''ve got but we don''t have to be down and out.

[LQ 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Credit to you LQ for giving some thought but I am with Ankles50 as are all my Bury Yella mates.

If I had a million quid that i wanted to put into my beloved club it would stay firmly in my wallet until this board had gone.

Who in their right mind would give this lot any more money. I am a shareholder and have small monies invested (!).

Sorry but it gets back to the nitty gritty - do they want to sell the club at market value or are they looking for idiots to invest.

It''s a no-brainer I''m afraid.

My mate Andy Larkin has apparently got into some trouble from the boards Gestapo, so I too will not go into specifics.[/quote]No-one is suggesting that you use your million Bury [;)]As it stands £120 will do! And it''s not about giving this lot more money, it''s about giving our team a decent player budget.Sorry to hear about Andy Larkin. He seemed alright to debate with. I hope it''s not too much trouble? Say ''hello'' from me...

[Ren 75]

[quote user="LQ"]With all due respect buying stuff in the Club shop isn''t going to help to the same degree because of the actual cost to the Club of whatever you buy.

We need money to get Norwich City out of this stupid league, that is the basic fact. I think some people may think more about who ''owns'' the Club than the Club itself. Until someone comes in with multi-millions to throw away we''re stuck with what we''ve got but we don''t have to be down and out.





[/quote]

Well I guess we will just have to wait and see what the club come up with when the rebate letters are sent out.  I have a feeling it will be promises to put the money into the transfer kitty and maybe they will match it.  However we have heard promises to invest in the team before, and I doubt its going to wash with me.

[Ankles50 0]

LQ - i''m going to argue with you about millions needed to get out of this league

Millions if you going to waste huge amounts of it maybe

But the right guy, spending wisely, will make a shoestring stretch to success IMO

Gunn does not inspire

[drurys dodgy knee 0]

Might they have set the price of the shares depending on how many shares they''ve made available?

If the club made too many shares available, this would dilute the major shareholder''s shareholdings. If one person came in and bought all of those shares, they''d have a significant standing in the club at shareholder level. It might therefore have been decided that 33,000 shares was as many as the existing shareholders could afford to make available without risking their own level of control in the club. Obviously if each of these shares was only £1, this wouldn''t be enough to help us out very much, so they probably bumped the price up to get the value of those shares (in total) closer to £1million.

As for the minimum purchase of 4 shares at a go, it might just be a ploy to make the shares available only to the more serious investors

i have no idea if this is anywhere near the truth, just my own thoughts

[LQ 0]

The 4 shares thing goes back to the ''Huckerby'' issue when they cost £25 each so your outlay was a minimum of £100.

[drurys dodgy knee 0]

Also, isn''t it the case that a Plc can offer it''s shares for sale? I thought only limited companies couldn''t offer.

[LQ 0]

All i know is that NCFC can''t offer - you have to ask.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Credit to you LQ for giving some thought but I am with Ankles50 as are all my Bury Yella mates.

If I had a million quid that i wanted to put into my beloved club it would stay firmly in my wallet until this board had gone.

Who in their right mind would give this lot any more money. I am a shareholder and have small monies invested (!).

Sorry but it gets back to the nitty gritty - do they want to sell the club at market value or are they looking for idiots to invest.

It''s a no-brainer I''m afraid.

My mate Andy Larkin has apparently got into some trouble from the boards Gestapo, so I too will not go into specifics.[/quote]Which of the following would change your mind ?

• a) Club announces that any money put into the 33,000 block of shares bought after 14th May goes directly into player budget
• b) Club announces a) and a new manager with league 1 experience
• c) Club announces a), b), and new CEO with proven track record
• d) Club announces a total buyout.

If it''s just a) for a lot of people, then maybe someone could ask somebody at the club if they would agree to a)...

[Ankles50 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Bury Yellow"]Credit to you LQ for giving some thought but I am with Ankles50 as are all my Bury Yella mates. If I had a million quid that i wanted to put into my beloved club it would stay firmly in my wallet until this board had gone. Who in their right mind would give this lot any more money. I am a shareholder and have small monies invested (!). Sorry but it gets back to the nitty gritty - do they want to sell the club at market value or are they looking for idiots to invest. It''s a no-brainer I''m afraid. My mate Andy Larkin has apparently got into some trouble from the boards Gestapo, so I too will not go into specifics.[/quote]

Which of the following would change your mind ?

• a) Club announces that any money put into the 33,000 block of shares bought after 14th May goes directly into player budget

• b) Club announces a) and a new manager with league 1 experience

• c) Club announces a), b), and new CEO with proven track record

• d) Club announces a total buyout.

If it''s just a) for a lot of people, then maybe someone could ask somebody at the club if they would agree to a)...
[/quote]

D, which in turn results in C & B

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="LQ"]

NB:  but you do get a vote at the AGM

[/quote]

A meaningless vote given that Delia and MWJ are the majority shareholders and can out vote everybody else combined.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="LQ"]I daresay that if someone came along with £1million to buy up all those shares they would probably be invited on to the Board!


What I am talking about here is normal people, not millionaires, looking for a way to get cash into this Club to give it a better chance of getting out of this bloody league - that''s all.


[/quote]

Good try LQ.

Lloyds bank were trading at £10 now down to 40p that''s true value!!

Realistic value of those shares.......... if any value.

They were £17.50ish when DS bought her forst lot and the club is in a worse state now.

Then again you don''t buy these shares to make money do you!

[/quote]

Some would say that these shares are worthless as the book value doesn''t represent the underlying value (i.e the land not the cost of the stands etc.). If you took the underlying value of the land the stands sit on, the land the pitch occupies and the land behind the Jarrold stand and deduct the debts and the cost of demolition then you can understand their point of view.

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,607]

[quote user="bleach"]

Might they have set the price of the shares depending on how many shares they''ve made available?

If the club made too many shares available, this would dilute the major shareholder''s shareholdings. If one person came in and bought all of those shares, they''d have a significant standing in the club at shareholder level. It might therefore have been decided that 33,000 shares was as many as the existing shareholders could afford to make available without risking their own level of control in the club.

[/quote]Bleach, 33,000 is actually a sizeable chunk of shares. Nearly twice the amount Michael Foulger has and more than six times the amount owned by the Turners. In other words someone could probably have bought their way on to the board by purchasing the whole lot (available for nearly two years now). And that would have given them influence. Not power, but influence. Indeed it wouldn''t be surprising if some or all of them are bought by the new director/directors we will be getting.So 33,000 is not a deliberately low figure from that point of view. It''s high enough to provide what you described as "a significant standing at the club". But equally it doesn''t threaten Smith and Jones''s majority control. It would need the issuance of around 86,000 shares on top of the 33,000 to do that.

[LQ 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"] It would need the issuance of around 86,000 shares on top of the 33,000 to do that.[/quote]And someone (or lots of people) to buy them!![;)]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Ren"]LQ (or anyone else for that matter) - how is the price of £30 arrived at?  I assume it is set by the board?[/quote]

Its based on the book value of the net assets.

Typically the cost of the stands is used however this doesn''t represet their underlying value if Carrow Rd. wasn''t used for sporting events or pop concerts. Who else needs stands? 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Ren"]LQ (or anyone else for that matter) - how is the price of £30 arrived at?  I assume it is set by the board?[/quote]

Its based on the book value of the net assets.

Typically the cost of the stands is used however this doesn''t represet their underlying value if Carrow Rd. wasn''t used for sporting events or pop concerts. Who else needs stands? 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Ren"]LQ (or anyone else for that matter) - how is the price of £30 arrived at?  I assume it is set by the board?[/quote]

Its based on the book value of the net assets.

Typically the cost of the stands is used however this doesn''t represet their underlying value if Carrow Rd. wasn''t used for sporting events or pop concerts. Who else needs stands? 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Ren"]LQ (or anyone else for that matter) - how is the price of £30 arrived at?  I assume it is set by the board?[/quote]

Its based on the book value of the net assets.

Typically the cost of the stands is used however this doesn''t represet their underlying value if Carrow Rd. wasn''t used for sporting events or pop concerts. Who else needs stands? 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="LQ"]NB:  but you do get a vote at the AGM [/quote]

A meaningless vote given that Delia and MWJ are the majority shareholders and can out vote everybody else combined.

[/quote]If a block of 30,000 shares was bought by a group of people, then that group of people, or a representative of that group would be able to have a limited say.  Surely the NCISA should be pushing for people to buy shares, if for no other reason than to get money into the club ?

[LQ 0]

Rather than ''recommending'' that they take money out of it you mean?[;)]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="LQ"]
 we''re talking about small investors (fans) wanting to put funds into their team if they so choose. In return you get to stick your hand up at the AGM and pop a certificate on your wall.

[/quote]

BUT will the money get spent on the team?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Ankles50"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Bury Yellow"]Credit to you LQ for giving some thought but I am with Ankles50 as are all my Bury Yella mates. If I had a million quid that i wanted to put into my beloved club it would stay firmly in my wallet until this board had gone. Who in their right mind would give this lot any more money. I am a shareholder and have small monies invested (!). Sorry but it gets back to the nitty gritty - do they want to sell the club at market value or are they looking for idiots to invest. It''s a no-brainer I''m afraid. My mate Andy Larkin has apparently got into some trouble from the boards Gestapo, so I too will not go into specifics.[/quote]Which of the following would change your mind ?

• a) Club announces that any money put into the 33,000 block of shares bought after 14th May goes directly into player budget

• b) Club announces a) and a new manager with league 1 experience

• c) Club announces a), b), and new CEO with proven track record

• d) Club announces a total buyout.

If it''s just a) for a lot of people, then maybe someone could ask somebody at the club if they would agree to a)...[/quote]

D, which in turn results in C & B

[/quote]The Ankles my friend, you might have a long wait.  I''m reminded of a poll in the 80s, the result of which was that 50% of the voting public would vote Liberal Democrat if they thought they had any chance of getting in.  If 50% of the voting public did vote Liberal Democrat, they''d win by a landslide.  Instead, 20 odd years later, they''re still about the same size as they were.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="LQ"] we''re talking about small investors (fans) wanting to put funds into their team if they so choose. In return you get to stick your hand up at the AGM and pop a certificate on your wall.[/quote]

BUT will the money get spent on the team?

[/quote]That is the question that needs to be put forward.  In the absence of Neil Doncaster, who fields questions by email ? [:)]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="LQ"] If you''re dead set on taking your rebate (and how could you after all my wonderful points???) perhaps look at putting money back like this if you want to and if you can afford to? You can argue till you''re blue in the face (god forbid) about what who paid for what but that doesn''t change things.Sorry for trying to come up with something constructive and legal to push this Club forwards. I won''t be whinging and slagging off people who have kept putting money in over the years, I''ll just be looking for constructive ways to bring more in if that''s ok?

[/quote]

 

How much are the club paying you Lisa?? [:)]

[/quote]

Thats an interesting question!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]

Can the club not upload a pdf of the share application form onto their site for willing buyers to print off, fill in and send off? Or is this advertising the shares for sale and illegal? Just a thought...

I''ll gladly put one up on the PinkUn site if that''s allowed?

[/quote]

Be careful re Company Law etc.