Anyone waiting for a reply.....?

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="I beat Atalanta"][quote user="Salahuddin"]and of course you know exactly what he offered![/quote]

I do
[/quote]

Then either share what you do know or p!s$ off from this forum.  I am sick of smug little b''s like you.

[. 0]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]

Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!

Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?

Compare the Two:
Norwich______________________________Taylor
Doing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirements
Initial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking price
Fans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirts
UNKNOWN__________________________Increased Bid
UNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at Birmingham
UNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.

It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!

They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.
[/quote]

You still don''t get it do you? A ridiculous comparison if I may say so and one which could only be made by an individual lacking any business nous.

You cling onto your little Delialaland if you wish and thus avoid any risk in doing so. League One football would throw up numerous advantages for the unambitious such as yourself....like maybe an occasional thrashing of Somecrapclub United etc....and a good run in the Cheappaintcompany Undercoat Shield....however, think small...stay small.

I''ll leave the choice to you...although I''m certain I know what that would be anyway.

 

[7rew-b 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?Compare the Two:Norwich______________________________TaylorDoing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirementsInitial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking priceFans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirtsUNKNOWN__________________________Increased BidUNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at BirminghamUNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.[/quote]

You still don''t get it do you? A ridiculous comparison if I may say so and one which could only be made by an individual lacking any business nous.

You cling onto your little Delialaland if you wish and thus avoid any risk in doing so. League One football would throw up numerous advantages for the unambitious such as yourself....like maybe an occasional thrashing of Somecrapclub United etc....and a good run in the Cheappaintcompany Undercoat Shield....however, think small...stay small.

I''ll leave the choice to you...although I''m certain I know what that would be anyway.

 [/quote]

Would you care to explain why it is a ridiculous comparison?  There are many similarities, as I have pointed out.  Go on, give me the benefit of your superior business accumen, what is so different? 

What suggets Cullum/his people won''t use the same tactic in player negotiations?

Or is the difference that YOU don''t like Delia, but have found a warm home in Cullum''s rear orifice? I''m not in Delialaland as you put it, but it isn''t the only place outside the orifice, you should get out in the sun more, its famed for not shining in your current location.

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]

Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!

Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?

Compare the Two:
Norwich______________________________Taylor
Doing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirements
Initial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking price
Fans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirts
UNKNOWN__________________________Increased Bid
UNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at Birmingham
UNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.

It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!

They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.
[/quote]

I think you''re tuggin'' on Delia''s.......(Apron strings, that is).....

[7rew-b 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?Compare the Two:Norwich______________________________TaylorDoing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirementsInitial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking priceFans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirtsUNKNOWN__________________________Increased BidUNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at BirminghamUNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.[/quote]

I think you''re tuggin'' on Delia''s.......(Apron strings, that is).....

[/quote]I should point out that, I agree we should have put up the extra 250k for Taylor early on, (possibly as add ons) and that Cullum should just buy Delia''s shares now (with a public offer to all shareholders).  Both tactics look pretty sh*t for the human emotions involved with the traded "commodities".  Both sides are as bad as each other, but cluck needs digging out much more than others.Certainly at the moment both sides are putting the football club last.  Whoever starts putting the club first first should run it imho.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]

Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!

Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?

Compare the Two:
Norwich______________________________Taylor
Doing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirements
Initial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking price
Fans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirts
UNKNOWN__________________________Increased Bid
UNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at Birmingham
UNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.

It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!

They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.
[/quote]

You forget that in our Taylor dealings we were negotiating from a position of weakness (danger of relegation, little ready cash etc). While Cullum is negotiating from a position of strength. He merely has to sit back and wait for the inevitable. Why make a move now when it will be cheaper later.

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 

[7rew-b 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days.  Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days. 

Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.
[/quote]

Well, we do know that they have "form".

I think if you give this lot enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Cluck is merely saying that this lot have had enough time in the driving seat. Their record is not good and it''s time for a chenge.

A prospective owner with deep pockets should not be turned away with a flea in his ear. Yes, I know all that drivel about "but he hasn''t made an offer" but nor would you or I if an owner made it clear that they were not for selling.

[I beat Atalanta 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

Well i doubt you''d tell anyone if you''re in te ''club'' it seems us mere supporters have no right to know anything about OUR club as long as we''re silly enough to stump up the wonger evey year.

[/quote]If you are a share holder all you have to do is read the annual accounts If not then correct, you have no right to knowIts very, very, very simple

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="I beat Atalanta"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

Well i doubt you''d tell anyone if you''re in te ''club'' it seems us mere supporters have no right to know anything about OUR club as long as we''re silly enough to stump up the wonger evey year.

[/quote]

If you are a share holder all you have to do is read the annual accounts

If not then correct, you have no right to know

Its very, very, very simple
[/quote]

No your right, i have no right to know, ive only spent thousands watching this club like many others, followed them from millwall to malaysia to give my support, cash on merchandise for me the kids and grandkids, nephews etc but why should they tell people ;like me, we are after all only fans eh.

[7rew-b 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days.  Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.[/quote]

Well, we do know that they have "form".

I think if you give this lot enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Cluck is merely saying that this lot have had enough time in the driving seat. Their record is not good and it''s time for a chenge.

A prospective owner with deep pockets should not be turned away with a flea in his ear. Yes, I know all that drivel about "but he hasn''t made an offer" but nor would you or I if an owner made it clear that they were not for selling.

[/quote]I''d make an offer in that case.  I''d make it big and loud and to every shareholder.  I''d make sure it was fair [£20-£25 per share] and I would make it in a personal letter to every small shareholder, not to the newspapers. I''d be fairly sure the small investors wouldn''t sell anyway. It would take about 5 minutes to come out and then there would be no support for Delia what so ever.  Cullum hasn''t done anything to impress me more than the current lot with how much he cares about the club and the playing side as opposed to how much he cares about money.  I have had enough of the non-playing side being put first, like everyone here.  But a takeover would have to change that to be any use, otherwise its rather like "Dave" taking over the Tories, it''d just be a comsetic exercise.I don''t really care how deep his pockets are, not if he has short arms.  Right now Cullum looks to have remarkably short arms.

[Mark .Y. 352]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days. 

Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.
[/quote]

Well, we do know that they have "form".

I think if you give this lot enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Cluck is merely saying that this lot have had enough time in the driving seat. Their record is not good and it''s time for a chenge.

A prospective owner with deep pockets should not be turned away with a flea in his ear. Yes, I know all that drivel about "but he hasn''t made an offer" but nor would you or I if an owner made it clear that they were not for selling.

[/quote]

I''d make an offer in that case.  I''d make it big and loud and to every shareholder.  I''d make sure it was fair [£20-£25 per share] and I would make it in a personal letter to every small shareholder, not to the newspapers. I''d be fairly sure the small investors wouldn''t sell anyway. It would take about 5 minutes to come out and then there would be no support for Delia what so ever. 

Cullum hasn''t done anything to impress me more than the current lot with how much he cares about the club and the playing side as opposed to how much he cares about money.  I have had enough of the non-playing side being put first, like everyone here.  But a takeover would have to change that to be any use, otherwise its rather like "Dave" taking over the Tories, it''d just be a comsetic exercise.

I don''t really care how deep his pockets are, not if he has short arms.  Right now Cullum looks to have remarkably short arms.
[/quote]

Whilst that would appear to be a reasonable strategy, I doubt you could actually get hold of a list of the shareholders. As far as I am aware, it is not public knowledge and I am sure the club could not give it out (not that they would want to in this case anyway) as it would be bound to breach the data protection act somewhere.

Mark .Y.

 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days. 

Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.
[/quote]

Well, we do know that they have "form".

I think if you give this lot enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Cluck is merely saying that this lot have had enough time in the driving seat. Their record is not good and it''s time for a chenge.

A prospective owner with deep pockets should not be turned away with a flea in his ear. Yes, I know all that drivel about "but he hasn''t made an offer" but nor would you or I if an owner made it clear that they were not for selling.

[/quote]

I''d make an offer in that case.  I''d make it big and loud and to every shareholder.  I''d make sure it was fair [£20-£25 per share] and I would make it in a personal letter to every small shareholder, not to the newspapers. I''d be fairly sure the small investors wouldn''t sell anyway. It would take about 5 minutes to come out and then there would be no support for Delia what so ever. 

Cullum hasn''t done anything to impress me more than the current lot with how much he cares about the club and the playing side as opposed to how much he cares about money.  I have had enough of the non-playing side being put first, like everyone here.  But a takeover would have to change that to be any use, otherwise its rather like "Dave" taking over the Tories, it''d just be a comsetic exercise.

I don''t really care how deep his pockets are, not if he has short arms.  *Right now Cullum looks to have remarkably short arms.*
[/quote]

*Yeah, but he still packs a decent punch*......It''s only a matter of time before he delivers the "knock ''em out blow!"......I hope Donny is the first for the fist. ''The Stowmarket Two'' are now being judged in a different light.....they know it, the Chief Exec certainly knows it, and the fawning and contented unquestioning support - that these "we do what''s for the best of the club" (and the shareholders), have for so long enjoyed, certainly won''t let them forget it. Borrowed time.....and living on it. 

Boo Hoo[:''(][:(] You have shares in the club - and you want a decent return if you have to sell them.....TUFF! That''s what shares are all about, you take your risks.....I do. A plc that''s the best part of £20 million in debt? And they want to flog it for £56 million! HAH![:D]

 

[Big Chief 0]

Hope for a great new season £20 Million.  The new designer kit £39.99. My seat in the snake pit £356.  Owning shares in the club I love and have supported for 38 years Priceless.

Might even buy my new shirt on the old mastercard.  However, my shares are not for sale at any price.

(Well anything less than £1000 a share anyway)

 

[T 190]

Apparently aviva is offering some basic finance courses as part on their sponsership but for starters: A: Equity(16m) = B: net assets before debt (36m) - C:debt (20m).

[Thorpe Stephen 0]

[quote user="T"]

Apparently aviva is offering some basic finance courses as part on their sponsership but for starters: A: Equity(16m) = B: net assets before debt (36m) - C:debt (20m).

[/quote]

Yes they are.

Also (how it should happen)

A = Delia Investment = £9m

B = Other investors = £7m

C = Peter Cullum Investment = £20m

Therefore Net assets before debt £56M - Debt = Equity £36M with PC having a 55% ownership of that £36M (e.g his £20m)

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="T"]

Apparently aviva is offering some basic finance courses as part on their sponsership but for starters: A: Equity(16m) = B: net assets before debt (36m) - C:debt (20m).

[/quote]Could also be written as:A: Equity(16m) = B gross assets before debt (51m) - C debt (35m) but then asking so much money for a PLC that is 35m in debt sounds so much worse than erm.... asking so much money for a PLC that is only £20m in debt doesn''t it?

[T 190]

I think this is what PC was proposing only I believe he mentioned he wanted two thirds for the 20m. The problem for the existing shareholders is that they are left with a significant minority interest without control which is worth significantly less. Typically a minority share is valued 30% less than a majority share but as football clubs are not profitability a minority interest would be very difficult to sell. Therefore how it could happen is as above with PC offering an option to buy out the minority when he has cashed in on Towergate.  

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="I beat Atalanta"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

Well i doubt you''d tell anyone if you''re in te ''club'' it seems us mere supporters have no right to know anything about OUR club as long as we''re silly enough to stump up the wonger evey year.

[/quote]

If you are a share holder all you have to do is read the annual accounts

If not then correct, you have no right to know

Its very, very, very simple
[/quote]

No your right, i have no right to know, ive only spent thousands watching this club like many others, followed them from millwall to malaysia to give my support, cash on merchandise for me the kids and grandkids, nephews etc but why should they tell people ;like me, we are after all only fans eh.

[/quote]

Go on Arthur, sock it to smuggy.  Give him one from me....

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"][quote user="I beat Atalanta"][quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

Well i doubt you''d tell anyone if you''re in te ''club'' it seems us mere supporters have no right to know anything about OUR club as long as we''re silly enough to stump up the wonger evey year.

[/quote]

If you are a share holder all you have to do is read the annual accounts

If not then correct, you have no right to know

Its very, very, very simple
[/quote]

No your right, i have no right to know, ive only spent thousands watching this club like many others, followed them from millwall to malaysia to give my support, cash on merchandise for me the kids and grandkids, nephews etc but why should they tell people ;like me, we are after all only fans eh.

[/quote]

Go on Arthur, sock it to smuggy.  Give him one from me....

[/quote]

LOL

[. 0]

[quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

I suspect Peter Cullum was "playing games" with the Carrow Road hierarchy in preparation for a future bid. He will not pay over the odds for a failing outfit (in increasing debt) and will simply bide his time just as many are not buying into a falling housing market...so PC will not waste money when there is no need. Shouldn''t we as supporters be happy that any investment will go into NCFC rather than a bank account in Suffolk?

It amazes me that so many have waited pointlessly for the present set up to come good....and yet are now demanding overnight action from Peter Cullum. When Smith is genuinely looking for the door...PC will open it.

Doncaster will be out on his arse the day PC moves in...and so he will be doing his utmost meanwhile to cling onto his income. We can expect nothing from him now except more frantic spinning of facts than ever.......

[/quote]

Ignoring the obvious gaps in your assumptions, which I have pointed out countless times before, I''m going to critise your arguement in a totally new way!

Isn''t the game/negotiation tactic that Cullum''s amazing business brain has come up with, (bid low, make it clear they have to sell, get it low) precisely the same game that demonstrated Doncaster''s/Delia''s/The Board''s incompetence and penny-pinchingness over Martin Taylor?

Compare the Two:
Norwich______________________________Taylor
Doing badly in Championship ______________Doing poorly in Prem and surplus to requirements
Initial gambit, below asking price____________Initial gambit, below asking price
Fans pressure board_____________________Taylors kids go to match in Norwich shirts
UNKNOWN__________________________Increased Bid
UNKNOWN__________________________Taylor stays at Birmingham
UNKNOWN__________________________We should have paid while we could have, Doomcaster is incompetant.

It amazes me that people who are so cynical about the current board and spin are prepared to believe anything Cullum says because he is very very rich and might throw some crumbs of his fortune this way.  I mean nobody who uses spin was ever successful!

They probably just want the swap apron strings for the more manly coat tails.
[/quote]

You still don''t get it do you? A ridiculous comparison if I may say so and one which could only be made by an individual lacking any business nous.

You cling onto your little Delialaland if you wish and thus avoid any risk in doing so. League One football would throw up numerous advantages for the unambitious such as yourself....like maybe an occasional thrashing of Somecrapclub United etc....and a good run in the Cheappaintcompany Undercoat Shield....however, think small...stay small.

I''ll leave the choice to you...although I''m certain I know what that would be anyway.

 [/quote]

Would you care to explain why it is a ridiculous comparison?  There are many similarities, as I have pointed out.  Go on, give me the benefit of your superior business accumen, what is so different? 

What suggets Cullum/his people won''t use the same tactic in player negotiations?

Or is the difference that YOU don''t like Delia, but have found a warm home in Cullum''s rear orifice? I''m not in Delialaland as you put it, but it isn''t the only place outside the orifice, you should get out in the sun more, its famed for not shining in your current location.
[/quote]

I think other astute posters have made any further comment from me unnecessary.

I "don''t like" Delia Smith for a very good reason...that being that she has cynically used our club for her own ends and has stolen it''s soul. Unforgivable to my mind. Nothing she could do now would alter my overall opinion....and Peter Cullum holds the key to a possible new beginning. Yes it''s a risk.....but nothing ventured, nothing gained and I''d rather fail trying than sink without trace in denial...

I repeat...it''s not all about the contents of Peter Cullum''s wallet as I''ve seen many a business thrive given a new direction and drive from the top...additional finance being the icing on the cake. Think "bigger picture" and move on.......

[Thorpe Stephen 0]

[quote user="T"]I think this is what PC was proposing only I believe he mentioned he wanted two thirds for the 20m. The problem for the existing shareholders is that they are left with a significant minority interest without control which is worth significantly less. Typically a minority share is valued 30% less than a majority share but as football clubs are not profitability a minority interest would be very difficult to sell. Therefore how it could happen is as above with PC offering an option to buy out the minority when he has cashed in on Towergate.  [/quote]

I guess the 2/3 is based on PC having some friendly arm wrestling over the existing value of the club which means that he values it at £10m rather than £16m - this I would have thought would not cause a major major stumbling block?!?

Yes, and all the rest of us our already minor shareholders - so it is really a case of Delia accepting that she will be a minority shareholder rather than the majority - technically her holding(number of shares and value if we use this fixed £30 that likes to be quoted) does not decrease but a much larger holding of shares belongs to someone else.......if this is what is holding back the investment then shame.

[T 190]

Mathmatically the value of the shares should not go down but commercially the value does - normally you have to pay 30% premium for shares if you are taking over control of a business. For a  football teams a minority has less value than other businesses as there are no cash returns for the shareholder so all the value is in owning/controlling the football club. PC knows and understands this which is why he insisted on control. Majority ownership of a football club does have a market value but a minority interest potentially has very little value if any. i.e. someone may be willing to be 9m for a majority interest but nothing for a minority interest. That is why the control issue is so importnat for PC and the existing shareholders. 

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Mark .Y."][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="7rew-b"][quote user="ricardo"]

   LOL  nobody who uses spin was ever successful! Tony Blair got away with it for 10 years.

 [/quote]

That was rather my point, that Spin and Success aren''t mutually exclusive,  in fact they probably go hand in hand these days.  Its just Cluck seems to believe everything Cullum says and assume everything from the Board is a lie, "because the Borad spins".  If you assume everything the board says is a lie, for this reason, the same must apply to every press statement, including those from PC.[/quote]

Well, we do know that they have "form".

I think if you give this lot enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Cluck is merely saying that this lot have had enough time in the driving seat. Their record is not good and it''s time for a chenge.

A prospective owner with deep pockets should not be turned away with a flea in his ear. Yes, I know all that drivel about "but he hasn''t made an offer" but nor would you or I if an owner made it clear that they were not for selling.

[/quote]I''d make an offer in that case.  I''d make it big and loud and to every shareholder.  I''d make sure it was fair [£20-£25 per share] and I would make it in a personal letter to every small shareholder, not to the newspapers. I''d be fairly sure the small investors wouldn''t sell anyway. It would take about 5 minutes to come out and then there would be no support for Delia what so ever.  Cullum hasn''t done anything to impress me more than the current lot with how much he cares about the club and the playing side as opposed to how much he cares about money.  I have had enough of the non-playing side being put first, like everyone here.  But a takeover would have to change that to be any use, otherwise its rather like "Dave" taking over the Tories, it''d just be a comsetic exercise.I don''t really care how deep his pockets are, not if he has short arms.  Right now Cullum looks to have remarkably short arms.[/quote]

Whilst that would appear to be a reasonable strategy, I doubt you could actually get hold of a list of the shareholders. As far as I am aware, it is not public knowledge and I am sure the club could not give it out (not that they would want to in this case anyway) as it would be bound to breach the data protection act somewhere.

Mark .Y.

 [/quote]

I believe (but might be wrong) that there being a public list of shareholders is what being a plc means - shares would be very hard to trade if there was no way to find out who owned them!

[T 190]

Not sure what the exact procedures would be for making an offer to all the shareholders but there is little point for PC/majority shareholders unless they agree.

[Thorpe Stephen 0]

[quote user="T"]

Mathmatically the value of the shares should not go down but commercially the value does - normally you have to pay 30% premium for shares if you are taking over control of a business. For a  football teams a minority has less value than other businesses as there are no cash returns for the shareholder so all the value is in owning/controlling the football club. PC knows and understands this which is why he insisted on control. Majority ownership of a football club does have a market value but a minority interest potentially has very little value if any. i.e. someone may be willing to be 9m for a majority interest but nothing for a minority interest. That is why the control issue is so importnat for PC and the existing shareholders. 

[/quote]

If so the only way Delia will be happy to lose Majority shareholding is to have her shares converted back to cash?? at the value of £9m (ish) - hmmmz a bit contrary to what her statements have led us to believe but understandable in some respects. (Shame in other as she is holding back the club she loves (?!?!))

However, if this was published in the media then I think the majority would be on PC side - after all he will be investing £20m and Delia/MWJ would have an investment of £9m

At the sametime I understand that it may be difficult for Delia to swallow - however if we are seriously encouraging investment then most investors will want to have a shareholding in the club - and Delia is basically saying we want investment but limiting it to an amount where she will still have overall control.

E.g. If Delia own £9m out of the £16m value then we can only every hope to get an extra circa £3m in investment as anyone investing over this amount would result in Delia/MWJ shareholding going less than 50% (unless Delia then increases her holding further - which she has done in the past) - anyone who wants to seriously invest money in the club will basically be given the cold shoulder???? and said the only way that they can take control is by Delia getting her £9m back as she is not happy being a minority investor but is very happy for other individuals (including all of us smaller shareholders) being small investors.

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Thorpe Stephen"][quote user="T"]

Mathmatically the value of the shares should not go down but commercially the value does - normally you have to pay 30% premium for shares if you are taking over control of a business. For a  football teams a minority has less value than other businesses as there are no cash returns for the shareholder so all the value is in owning/controlling the football club. PC knows and understands this which is why he insisted on control. Majority ownership of a football club does have a market value but a minority interest potentially has very little value if any. i.e. someone may be willing to be 9m for a majority interest but nothing for a minority interest. That is why the control issue is so importnat for PC and the existing shareholders. 

[/quote]

If so the only way Delia will be happy to lose Majority shareholding is to have her shares converted back to cash?? at the value of £9m (ish) - hmmmz a bit contrary to what her statements have led us to believe but understandable in some respects. (Shame in other as she is holding back the club she loves (?!?!))

However, if this was published in the media then I think the majority would be on PC side - after all he will be investing £20m and Delia/MWJ would have an investment of £9m

At the sametime I understand that it may be difficult for Delia to swallow - however if we are seriously encouraging investment then most investors will want to have a shareholding in the club - and Delia is basically saying we want investment but limiting it to an amount where she will still have overall control.

E.g. If Delia own £9m out of the £16m value then we can only every hope to get an extra circa £3m in investment as anyone investing over this amount would result in Delia/MWJ shareholding going less than 50% (unless Delia then increases her holding further - which she has done in the past) - anyone who wants to seriously invest money in the club will basically be given the cold shoulder???? and said the only way that they can take control is by Delia getting her £9m back as she is not happy being a minority investor but is very happy for other individuals (including all of us smaller shareholders) being small investors.

[/quote]It is rather a moot point whether she would sell or not and at what price, since no offer has been made, we have no idea what is unacceptable to her.  Some people think this is because she has a death-grip on control, others because Cullum wanted to be given control.  That is something you have to make up your own mind on.The point that has been made here is not that Delia won''t let anyone invest more than 3 mill because she would lose control, but that giving away her/MWJs joint majority shareholding renders it worthless.  Given that it is currently worth 9 million and her total worth is estimated at between 20 and 30 million, that is a significant proportion of her lifes work to render worthless at a stroke.  I know that I certainly wouldn''t do that and I don''t expect many people would.  Whether she would take any value between £0 and £9 million is unknown as it has not been tested.  Whether it is right that she should recieve some compensation for what she is giving up is also a matter for your own moral code.

[T 190]

Basically agree with your analysis.  In any business deal the existing shareholders normally wants to be bought out (unless occaisionally new investor''s money would increase their return as a minority which is not the case for a football club). PC''s reported offer was unusual to say the least. I''m not sure if there are too many people who would want to lose a potential 9m as a result of doing a deal with someone worth 85x what they are worth. Likewise PC does not appear willing to put in 20m without control which is also understandable so hopefully he or someone else will be willing to make a normal offer.

[T 190]

I was referring to the previous quote but I get fed up scrolling through too many quotes. I think the last couple of posts are spot on- we would all like to see the 20m and I can understand the disappoinment but the response from the majority shareholders is entirely normal - if it was not there would be a line in the accounts with revenue from donations each year - there is not. I can also understand PC when football is unattractive commercially. I suspect and hope he may be back if he is really interested.  In the meantime I suspect he may have flushed out some cash from the existing shareholders. I am at least encouraged that GR is going for quality albeit this generally means players at the beginning or end of their career. There are at least 7 clubs financially better placed than we are and probably another 6/7 in a similar position so hopefully we can at least compete in the top half until PC or someone comes calling.

[I beat Atalanta 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

No your right, i have no right to know, ive only spent thousands watching this club like many others, followed them from millwall to malaysia to give my support, cash on merchandise for me the kids and grandkids, nephews etc but why should they tell people ;like me, we are after all only fans eh.

[/quote]You also spend £k''s at many other PLC''s.... but you have no roght to know what the boards plans are nor have any say in the running of the companyWhat bit dont you understand? Sure, on planet cuckoo we''d all love a say.... the law says differentTry and keep up old timerAs for the fella who said we should have upped our bid for Taylor and its Doncasters fault that we didn''t, do you conveniently forget Roeders very public saying that he did not wish to bid any more than £1m? He had made his valuation and was not going to be forced into going higher. There are plenty of players out there as good as Taylor..... you just need patience and stop wanting to hit the (very expensive) panic button