Bristol City chairman promises £30 million transfer kitty if promoted...

[ricky knight 0]

OK simple question, would this team even if loanees were permanent get us promotion, is that not what we a striving for, i dont think they would, it wold be midtable again next year imo.

[Cowling Is A W*nk*r!!!!! 0]

Jesus, whats Ralphs obsession with Ips#t all about? Bit of a blue eyed boy are we?

Whats Whittle writing about in the paper this week?

Are Whittle and Ralph the same person?

Find out on Eastenders tonight at 8pm BBC1

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

It`s quite easy to run up huge debts if you are obsessed with ploughing millions into land, a road, infill, new pitch/ticket office/corporate facilities etc. As i have pointed out before, the club made a decent profit with no player sales in the play-off year, but now seem to require vastly higher income to break even.  The off-pitch stuff is having the opposite effect to the lazy assumptions posted on here- it is draining the club of cash.

[/quote]

You can''t get securitisation / loan extensions for players.  They are considered too risky by financial institutions.  You can, however, get extra money to put into bricks and mortar, so that you can generate income over the long term to pay for players.

As I said above, it''s not just us either.  Over the last decade, the top 92 clubs have spent on average 20 million more per year (ok, so that''s just over 200k per club, but it''s still more) on stadium improvements than they have on transfer fees.  So most of the other clubs are doing similar things to us, it''s either that or their grounds are falling apart like Selhurst Park.  My question to you Mr C is - why do you expect NCFC to be any different from the vast majority of other clubs ?

[/quote]

It seems to me that the profit from selling players has been (and still is) paying back the short-term loans for infrastructure, therefore the team has been financing off-pitch investment, not the other way around.  I think we can all accept that this has played a part in the teams decline on the pitch so it is clearly a very risky strategy.  Relegation would be calamatous.  As the fact that the argument against investing in the team is usually that it "can`t guarantee success", can you give me a guarantee that all these other projects will make money?  What is the likelihood of the land being sold in the current economic climate?

As far as your point about stadia investment goes, we have spent over £30m on infrastructure in the last 6 financial years.  I don`t know what we have spent on transfers but it`s certainly alot less than that (despite the sky and player sales millions), so our infrastructure spend would appear to be way above average.

At the end of the day Blah you can get lost in the minutae all you want, but we are a club who have just finished receiving £34m tv. money, have sold £18m worth of talent, have the biggest crowds in the league yet are being outperformed and outspent by clubs like Stoke, Hull, Cardiff, Plymouth, Preston and Burnley who have had none of those things.  Several clubs in our league have spent more on one player than we have in the entire season and we have made £6.3m on transfers!  The over-cautious policy hasn`t worked, has risked relegation and needs to change if we want to move forward under Roeder.

[Mello Yello 2,298]

Reading''s Madejski Stadium, cost £50 million to construct.......

The Bolton Reebok Stadium, only cost £35 million to build......

Derby County''s Pride Park, cost around £30 million......

''Cuckoo Stadium'' Colchester Utd''s new home, (10,000 capacity) will cost around £11 million......

Are we getting VFM for sticking trendy bits onto Carra Rud?

Did them archaeologicallistic types, find the Club''s ''Black Hole'' on the site of the Jarrold Stand, and saw what was in said ''Black Hole'' and were paid ''shush/sch-tum'' money - to not divulge in it''s bottomless content?

To be serious (if I can).......£30 million for infrastructure and improvements to Carra......It''s a lot of money considering New Stadia (of Quality) can be constructed for a similar amount......That makes my ''personal'' brick, (a gift from the missus and kids) at the back of the Jarrold - actually worth more than my garden wall......

 

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Mr Carrow you have my sympathy pal, its like talking to brick walls, there is non so blind as them that wont see. We will see what happens in the summer. i predict the usual, name dropping, being outbid, did not want to come here, club is too small, end up with the scraps scenario. I really hope i am wrong.[/quote]

Sorry Ricky but you are just as blinkered as the people you are talking about.  The only difference between them and you is that you sit on the other side of the fence.

[/quote]

show me where i am wrong then.

[/quote]

No one is right or wrong Ricky that is the point.  We all argue our points, some of us back them up with facts.  Sometimes the facts can contradict each other depending on the way they are delivered.  At the end of the day though all they are are personal opinions.

Point is that you defend your stance and I defend mine.  You wont deviate from what you believe and refuse to see the other point of view and that sir is what makes you blinkered.  Its not meant as a dig.  There is no shame in sticking to what you believe.  Its just worth remembering next time you call someone with a different opinion to your own blinkered.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]Reading''s Madejski Stadium, cost £50 million to construct.......

The Bolton Reebok Stadium, only cost £35 million to build......

Derby County''s Pride Park, cost around £30 million......

''Cuckoo Stadium'' Colchester Utd''s new home, (10,000 capacity) will cost around £11 million......

Are we getting VFM for sticking trendy bits onto Carra Rud?

Did them archaeologicallistic types, find the Club''s ''Black Hole'' on the site of the Jarrold Stand, and saw what was in said ''Black Hole'' and were paid ''shush/sch-tum'' money - to not divulge in it''s bottomless content?

To be serious (if I can).......£30 million for infrastructure and improvements to Carra......It''s a lot of money considering New Stadia (of Quality) can be constructed for a similar amount......That makes my ''personal'' brick, (a gift from the missus and kids) at the back of the Jarrold - actually worth more than my garden wall......

 

[/quote]

This is a very interesting point.  If I can add to this St Marys Stadium est. £32m and the new stadium:mk which cost an est. £50m.  I think these two are more relevant as they are a bit more recent.

It is rumoured that there is enough land at Colney to build such a ground, it would have better road links for travelling fans and would definately fit the current mould for out of town stadia.  Might also solve policing and traffic issues in an already congested town centre.  The only problem would be rail links.

How much would the land our current stadium is on be worth to offset against this?

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Funnily enough jimmy500 i was thinking exactly the same thing at work earlier.  Rumour has it that the board have at least considered this option.  As far as how much the ground is worth, i really haven`t got a clue but the only word that springs to mind is "alot"!!  Would people accept it though, if it meant an end to the never-ending expensive infrastructure add-ons and freed up some money to have a real crack at promotion?

[Mr.Carrow 378]

In a belated response to your "define ambition" blah, i actually think that up until promotion we were quite ambitious considering we were a club genuinely struggling financially and averaging crowds a good deal lower than now.  Believe it or not both the play-off team and the promotion team cost about the same as our current squad, and thats obviously before the sky/transfer millions and 24,000 sell-outs.  Now if someone can explain that little fact to me without coming to the conclusion that the money has been spent "elsewhere" and not on the team i really would like to hear it!

[Carrow89 0]

Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a

failure for this club"Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not

my concern."Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a

failure for this club"Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not

my concern."Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,[/quote]No matter how you look at it Ralph, unfortunatly this season has been a failure.  The fourth failure in four seasons.

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?

" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a failure for this club"

Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !

"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not my concern."

Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.

The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,
[/quote]

I love you.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Is Ralph Wright morphing into a form of smudger?

[ricky knight 0]

Idiot of the week, i get called names every night its part of my living. But ok einstein are we or are we not involved in a relegation battle, were we not bottom when Roeder came aboard, you are nit picking again, no solid argument as per usual, just BS and name calling. The position we find ourselves in is not good enough for a club of our stature, bottom line if you think it is, maybe its you who is the closet binner. As for all the other clubs of course at some stage of the season, they could be relegated, but this is the business end and a loss tomorrow could see us back in the shxt, to me thats a relegation battle, Mr Wonder.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Funnily enough jimmy500 i was thinking exactly the same thing at work earlier.  Rumour has it that the board have at least considered this option.  As far as how much the ground is worth, i really haven`t got a clue but the only word that springs to mind is "alot"!!  Would people accept it though, if it meant an end to the never-ending expensive infrastructure add-ons and freed up some money to have a real crack at promotion?[/quote]

Would also give us the option of adding the extra 10,000 or so seats that we desperately need.  I am quite positive that a successful Norwich team would fill such a stadium with ease.  Remember the demand for tickets during our promotion season.  It would also give us the opportunity to consolidate all of our debts into one package.  I reckon this a valid discussion topic, I personally would be all for it.  I would expect there to be quite a few against, I recall the uproar in Liverpool when Everton started discussing their move.

It was also rumoured that if we had a stadium that would take a minimum 32,000 then we would be considered as an international venue for the next Euro/World cup to be hosted here.  The rumour was that us and the Meccano stadium down at Ipswich would be used a base for one of the qualifying groups.  How true this is I don''t know.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Ralph Wright"]Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?

" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a failure for this club"

Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !

"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not my concern."

Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.

The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,
[/quote]

No matter how you look at it Ralph, unfortunatly this season has been a failure.  The fourth failure in four seasons.
[/quote]

Correction 3rd failure in 3 seasons.  Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.  Too harsh to count that season.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Funnily enough jimmy500 i was thinking exactly the same thing at work earlier.  Rumour has it that the board have at least considered this option.  As far as how much the ground is worth, i really haven`t got a clue but the only word that springs to mind is "alot"!!  Would people accept it though, if it meant an end to the never-ending expensive infrastructure add-ons and freed up some money to have a real crack at promotion?[/quote]

Would also give us the option of adding the extra 10,000 or so seats that we desperately need.  I am quite positive that a successful Norwich team would fill such a stadium with ease.  Remember the demand for tickets during our promotion season.  It would also give us the opportunity to consolidate all of our debts into one package.  I reckon this a valid discussion topic, I personally would be all for it.  I would expect there to be quite a few against, I recall the uproar in Liverpool when Everton started discussing their move.

It was also rumoured that if we had a stadium that would take a minimum 32,000 then we would be considered as an international venue for the next Euro/World cup to be hosted here.  The rumour was that us and the Meccano stadium down at Ipswich would be used a base for one of the qualifying groups.  How true this is I don''t know.

[/quote]

Good that we can agree on something jimmy500!  I think it would be a shame, but i think if the economics weighed heavily in favour of a move, i would support it.  It would, however, make all the investment in the infill/pitch/offices/facilities look a bit stupid though......[^o)]  And i agree that we could fill a 32,000 stadium.  The demand is obviously there and wouldn`t it be great to knock that "little Norwich" tag on the head once and for all?

On your tongue-in-cheek "binner" comment, i have posted on here that one of my best mates actually coined that term in a fanzine we used to run.  I have invited our ralph to come and discuss the origins of his favourite "B" word with us but it seems he can`t fit us in.......[:^0]  [:D]

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Ralph Wright"]Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?

" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a failure for this club"

Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !

"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not my concern."

Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.

The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,
[/quote]

No matter how you look at it Ralph, unfortunatly this season has been a failure.  The fourth failure in four seasons.
[/quote]

Correction 3rd failure in 3 seasons.  Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.  Too harsh to count that season.

[/quote]

Nope, CJF is spot on with what he said. Wigan and Reading didn''t exactly struggle after they achieved promotion did they? So why is it ''Too harsh to count that season'', the season in which we couldn''t muster one single away win??

It really is a 4th failure in 4 seasons.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.[/quote]

Wrong. Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Charlton - all in the last six years or so have been promoted and done pretty well.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.[/quote]

Wrong. Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Charlton - all in the last six years or so have been promoted and done pretty well.

[/quote]

And Reading, Wigan, Bolton and Fulham aren''t in a relegation dogfight this season.  Despite being established for a few seasons.

But in fairness to you those are good examples.  Only shows one side of the coin though.  What about Derby, West Brom, Us, Ipswich, Barnsley, Watford, Wolves, Bradford, Sheffield Wednesday, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United.  With exception of Bradford and West Brom, who managed 2, all are one season wonders.

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.[/quote]

Wrong. Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Charlton - all in the last six years or so have been promoted and done pretty well.

[/quote]

And Reading, Wigan, Bolton and Fulham aren''t in a relegation dogfight this season.  Despite being established for a few seasons.

But in fairness to you those are good examples.  Only shows one side of the coin though.  What about Derby, West Brom, Us, Ipswich, Barnsley, Watford, Wolves, Bradford, Sheffield Wednesday, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United.  With exception of Bradford and West Brom, who managed 2, all are one season wonders.

[/quote]Derby are following the old, don''t even bother like norwich model. They are bound for trouble but at least have a good manager on board. How you can even compare us to WBA who are a yo-yo club, I would take that everyday of the week over what we have been doing. Or even Ipswich and wolves who always are up there every season.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.[/quote]

Wrong. Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Charlton - all in the last six years or so have been promoted and done pretty well.

[/quote]

And Reading, Wigan, Bolton and Fulham aren''t in a relegation dogfight this season.  Despite being established for a few seasons.

But in fairness to you those are good examples.  Only shows one side of the coin though.  What about Derby, West Brom, Us, Ipswich, Barnsley, Watford, Wolves, Bradford, Sheffield Wednesday, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United.  With exception of Bradford and West Brom, who managed 2, all are one season wonders.

[/quote]

Well I''m not so sure about Sheffield Wednesday as they were in the top flight for quite a while before their relegation. And Ipswich managed two seasons before they went down.

But yes, your other examples are valid, but the point here is that not every team promoted gets relegated.  That''s what you said in the post I quoted and it''s wrong. Quite a few obviously do, but not every team. It always puzzles me when people say that because it''s simply not true.

[blahblahblah 2]

Mr Carrow, Mello - a new ground at Colney could be an interesting proposition.  You could put quite a lot of high-density housing on the Carrow Road site, and people are paying a premium to live in that neck of the woods, as it''s handy for town and rail links.  However, because of the current economic situation, 6 or 12 months ago we would have got a lot more for the land the ground is sitting on than we would now.  Such a move would take years to get from the drawing board to completion, not to mention many millions that would need to be spent on roads from any site near the training ground to the A47.  Yet more loans would have to be raised in order to pay for the building work.  Whether it could pay for itself I have no idea, but if such a move would give us a 30,000 seater stadium, I''d be for it.

I think the majority of fans would be against the idea though. We had a poll on here last year, and 50% of fans didn''t want to rename Carrow Road to make a bit of cash, let alone move lock stock and barrel to a new ground.  Many people that currently go to Carrow Road walk to the ground, that wouldn''t be possible out at Colney.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.[/quote]

Wrong. Reading, Wigan, West Ham, Portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn, Manchester City, Charlton - all in the last six years or so have been promoted and done pretty well.

[/quote]

And Reading, Wigan, Bolton and Fulham aren''t in a relegation dogfight this season.  Despite being established for a few seasons.

But in fairness to you those are good examples.  Only shows one side of the coin though.  What about Derby, West Brom, Us, Ipswich, Barnsley, Watford, Wolves, Bradford, Sheffield Wednesday, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United.  With exception of Bradford and West Brom, who managed 2, all are one season wonders.

[/quote]

Well I''m not so sure about Sheffield Wednesday as they were in the top flight for quite a while before their relegation. And Ipswich managed two seasons before they went down.

But yes, your other examples are valid, but the point here is that not every team promoted gets relegated.  That''s what you said in the post I quoted and it''s wrong. Quite a few obviously do, but not every team. It always puzzles me when people say that because it''s simply not true.

[/quote]

Ok then I concede.  Let me re-phrase...nearly every team that gets promoted struggles, those that stay up generally do by the skin of their teeth.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"][quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Ralph Wright"]Blimey Ricky, you up for idiot of the week ?

" Just being mathmatically involved in relegation as you put it is a failure for this club"

Pompous twaddle. Until around February EVERY club is in mathematical position of relegation. In fact we are still in a mathematical position to be in the play offs !

"Once again i dont care about the other nine, not my concern."

Of course not. We play in a league of one and so other club''s results or positions effect us at all. However the logic of your stupidity is that we are either in automatic promotion at the top or guaranteed relegation at the bottom.

The rest of your ramble is the usual ''make it up'' and argue against that rather than actually replying to the post. I never said you were a binner, I merely asked why you were siding with them. I''m sure someone can explain to you the difference,
[/quote]

No matter how you look at it Ralph, unfortunatly this season has been a failure.  The fourth failure in four seasons.
[/quote]

Correction 3rd failure in 3 seasons.  Every team promoted to the Prem struggles and inevitably gets relegated.  Too harsh to count that season.

[/quote]

Nope, CJF is spot on with what he said. Wigan and Reading didn''t exactly struggle after they achieved promotion did they? So why is it ''Too harsh to count that season'', the season in which we couldn''t muster one single away win??

It really is a 4th failure in 4 seasons.

[/quote]

For every team you can mention that went up and didnt struggle I can name 2 or 3 that did.  There are always exceptions.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

I think the board would have to hold a vote on a move blah, or all hell would break lose.  And i think they know they would probably lose it.

We can only speculate on the economics, but you would have thought as we actually own the training ground- and Carrow Rd. plus surrounding land we already own amounts to a large, prime area- that it could well be very tempting.

I suppose the fact that they are still taking out loans to develop offices etc. at Carrow Rd. means that they have dismissed the idea, and i doubt many big developments like that will be viable for a good few years anyway with the economy looking bad.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I think the board would have to hold a vote on a move blah, or all hell would break lose.  And i think they know they would probably lose it.

We can only speculate on the economics, but you would have thought as we actually own the training ground- and Carrow Rd. plus surrounding land we already own amounts to a large, prime area- that it could well be very tempting.

I suppose the fact that they are still taking out loans to develop offices etc. at Carrow Rd. means that they have dismissed the idea, and i doubt many big developments like that will be viable for a good few years anyway with the economy looking bad.

[/quote]

I think the major sticking point would be rail links.  If we went up near colney there is no rail link for visiting fans.

I agree that they would probably lose a vote.  I also think that the majority would be older fans who don''t like change.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

Ok then I concede.  Let me re-phrase...nearly every team that gets promoted struggles, those that stay up generally do by the skin of their teeth.[/quote]

And we achieved a points total that has never stayed up.  For me that is what makes the season a failure.  The only reason it wasnt embarrassing was cos Worthy played Helveg and Safri towards the end to stop them whinging at not getting a chance...  From what you have said just being in the Premiership seems to constitute a successful season which I just cannot agree with.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

Ok then I concede.  Let me re-phrase...nearly every team that gets promoted struggles, those that stay up generally do by the skin of their teeth.[/quote]

And we achieved a points total that has never stayed up.  For me that is what makes the season a failure.  The only reason it wasnt embarrassing was cos Worthy played Helveg and Safri towards the end to stop them whinging at not getting a chance...  From what you have said just being in the Premiership seems to constitute a successful season which I just cannot agree with.

[/quote]

I didn''t say it was successful, just not the dismal failure you were claiming it to be.