Are English Football Fans The Dinosaurs?

[Mister Chops 7]

It''s easy to launch into a rant, and I find the idea that the state of Premiership football is somehow down to the supporters somewhat laughable, but let''s go point by point...

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

For too long has the Mother country of football wrung its hands in anguish as to why it seems incapable of being the pride of the planet when it comes to the pinnacle of competing and winning at football against all other countries.

[/quote]

Since 1966, England has not won a trophy.  Okay.  Yes, we like post-mortems about the fact.  Your link from club football to international football is tenuous, but let''s roll with it for now.

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

For too long have many fans of club teams in similar positions to Norwich City complained about their owners ( past, present or future ) unwillingness to put money into a black hole filled with risk on the relatively small chance that promotion to the higher tier can be attained, if only for a brief spell.

[/quote]

I think that''s probably all clubs.  Liverpool fans moan about Gilette and Hicks for all the millions their club has available and the silverware they could yet win. Luton and Bournemouth, both in administration, rightly bemoan their team''s fortunes.

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

This is the stuff of soap opera discussion in the pubs and elsewhere as the perceived problem gets greater then so does the anguish. It''s always "someone else''s fault." It''s the FA, or foreign ownership of English teams, it''s player greed, it''s Sky Sports. It''s always someone or something else. Just possibly it''s, more than anything else, the stubborn desire of English fans to cling to their traditional approach to the game like dinosaurs in a world that''s moving on. 

[/quote]

This is where your argument begins to fall apart.  Supporters "moaning" (i.e. expressing a negative view on something close to their hearts) is entirely reasonable behaviour.  But what is this "traditional approach to the game" you are talking about?

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

It''s the willingness of English fans to support a product and its infrastructure that attracts the skills of the top players in the world from many other countries while top English players sit on the bench. It''s your clamouring for more, more and more, yet again that attracts the attentions of foreign owners who say, not surprisingly, "They must really love their football in England to turn out for so many games in a season, much of the time in inclement weather."

[/quote]

Are English fans willing to see top English players on the bench?  What''s your source there, then?

The global market has seen to the greatest players (and the not so great) wanting to earn as much money for kicking a pigskin around as possible.  How do you stop this?  Ban foreign players? - a backward step.  Restrict the number of foreign players? - possibly.  Often mooted by fans, nothing done about it by the establishment.

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

The moment someone starts to look innovatively at how the product can be expanded to attract even more money so many shout "Foul! Not good for the game." Well, guess what? Dinosaurs can''t turn the clock back, at least not without a big bang, and neither can football go back to the good old days without some eruption of mammoth proportions, which is not even close to being realised within the relatively minor compaining of hard-done by football fans.

[/quote]

Do you understand the concept of a league?  Each team plays each other twice, once at home and once away.  That''s parity for all.  Everyone treated the same.

Now throw in an extra game for Arsenal/Man U/Liverpool against Derby/Middlesborough/Fulham.  Does parity still exist?  "Innovative," you say.  "Money-spinning guff," I say.  And the head of FIFA would appear to agree.  The dinosaurs analogy is pithy but irrelevant.  Dinosaurs died out in the big bang.  Football keeps rolling and the millions keep pouring in, and too often the fans are, if not an afterthought, then some way behind the sponsors and the corporate tickets and the television coverage.

 

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

The African boys ( and those from other countries less economically advantaged ) will continue to get better and better. Their countries will progressively come closer to winning World Cups as England will slowly but surely move further and further away from the prize. Foreign ownership of football clubs will continue to expand and rotate, as surely will the English owners such as Smith and Wynn-Jones eventually tire and fade away, disenchanted with the lack of appreciation for their efforts. English players will increasingly become second fiddle at the top levels.

[/quote]

Probably more like eighteenth fiddle, but I take your point.

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Which begs the question, "Does it have to be this way?" The answer of couse is no, it does not but, in order for there to be a sea change to what is taking place, English fans need to both become involved in that process of change and willing to embrace it. My sense is that willingness is not there. The leaders that are in place SUGGEST ( not decide ) that an additional single Premiership game gets played on foreign soil in a few seasons time. The fan reaction; it''s protest time. What is embodied within the reaction? "We don''t want it." Well, what do you want?

[/quote]

Did it cross your mind that the reason so many people are against it (FIFA included) is because it undermines the whole concept of a league, and looks like shameless money-grabbing?  Oh, I know American Football does it, but American Football also has no concept of a draw, four quarters, and several advertising breaks during the game.  We don''t want that either.

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

So many of you seem to be saying you don''t want what you''ve got now. If you don''t like what is being proposed then demand approaches with new football leadership. Demand it. Be passionate about it. Insist upon it. Get involved. Just stop complaining about what you are turning up to support week in and week out. You resemble dinosaurs moving closer and closer to the abyss.

[/quote]

Hyperbole aside, that''s an empty last paragraph.  The turnstiles will still be clicking long after we''re both in the ground (that''s the earth I''m talking about, not Carrow Road.) 

 

[Yellowfuture 71]

In reply to Shack Attack, I enjoyed your post and agree with you on the point about kids football, to be fair though full size goals are not used until competative youth football begins at 11 a side, this is under 11`s age group. NCFC Accadamy is obsessed with the size of a player and regrettably coaches intuative skill out of their players rather than nurturing  exceptional talent.

How many of your kids go out all day, like I used to and you used to and kick a ball around.. Not many I would bet, more likely they are indoors on an x box. The hunger for footbal lies in Africa, there are less distractions and the future of world football lies in their hands, not ours!   

[YankeeCanary 0]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[beelsie 0]

Thanks for the words of "welcome back!"

Reason for interlude was, that my wife passed away after long illness in Addenbrookes hospital on December 26th 2006.

I''m afraid that for a time I was as lost as I have ever been.

I am now getting back to reading and and finding that my response buds are awakening.  It is such thought provoking articles from YC and others that stir the brain box  but unfortunately are too few and far between; for measured replies. There have IMHO been too many posts, over the last year or so, that have for my liking contained so little that they do not merit much in response.

I will reply to you YC. In short, that our education system has so suffered from political correctness and human rights syndrome that our children have been pansified so much, that to get them interested and active in physical sport, means that the half hours PT in the playground before lessons and competitive sports competitions between schools; that thirty years ago, was the norm, sadly it is no longer so.  In their place are subjects such as, and are called called the humanities and social studies, to name but two.  There are others that could be mentioned and are and do, as you all know carry quite valuable A level results; but in my opinion carry very little information that is of benefit to the understanding and meaning of life out there.  This in brief means IMHO, other than watching and and being abusive and creating a nuisance environment the young men and girls of today find it much easier to pound the keys of a lap top in the lavish warmth and comfort of a pink bedroom, while mum and dad cavort with whoever to fuel their imaginary conceptions of affluence.  As I see it YC until we the population start assert ourselves and have a reassessment of values in society and get politicians of the right mind conducting our affairs.  There will be no young footballers of British birth who will be ready, or have what it takes, to take on the hungry and hardy outsiders from the poorer developing nations. OTBC!!!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

So...

Don''t answer any of the points I raise...

Don''t offer any of your own views...

So much easier to rant than debate ain''t it, Yankee?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

And given your shameful tendency to lump all football fans together into one amorphous unthinking (but complaining) mass as part of your initial, misguided, polemic, I''m sure you feel the same way about everybody who dares disagree with you.

Your self-satisfied and smug suggestion that somehow all football fans are somehow implicit in what you see as the destruction of the game they love is so astonishingly wide of the mark that unless you can back it up with some concrete examples (instead of the airy-fairy theorising you''ve indulged in thus far) I''m afraid this is another example of a "look at me" post - and how ironic that it hails from a country where long ago they sold the soul of their sports to Pepsi commercials and media schedules.

 

[Saint Canary 0]

A lot of interesting posts in here and I wish I had had the time to contribute earlier.Firstly I think the reason so many people are so strongly against the Premier League plans is because they are, in their current form, unworkable.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to promote the PL all around the world but you have question why Scudamore chose to release information at this stage.  The whole idea is still very much in it''s infancy, is ill thought out at best and should never have been made public.  FIFA, UEFA and the condfederations the Premier League wish to sell their product too should all have been consulted first.  Scudamore is now being made to look foolish by the opposition to the idea, especially in Asia where you would have felt the strongest support would have come from.  They do not want their own leagues to be overlooked by their fans and I just can''t beleive that the Premier League did not even float the idea with them first.  Worst of all there seems to have been little or no consultation with the English FA and I just can''t get my head around that.  Personally I think this is merely politics from the Premier League, trying to wrestle more power from the FA which I why I feel so strongly against.  Add to that the hypocricy of the likes of Wenger backing the idea while for years bemoaning the congestion of fixtures, you can understand the reaction of dinosaur fans.  The FA really have to get some power back from the Premier League and start to run the game from top to bottom in the best interests of every club in the country.  Money needs to be distributed in a way where the bigger clubs get less and the smaller clubs get more to level the playing field.  The Premier League is fast becoming like the SPL with only the big 4 likely to win. If the Premier League is worried about losing it''s worldwide appeal, the lack of comptetiton in the league should be the first thing they try to rectify.  NFL style salary sytems and maximum squad sizes needs to be introduced to try and get the game in this country interesting again because frankly it''s boring.  For me winning the Championship was better than being in the Premier League.I hope to put a bit more down later but have run out of time now.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Satellite TV promotes Premier League all over the World........No need to truck lock stock and barrel 2 teams halfway across the world - to ''display and promote'' the beautiful English game.......to those who are the slightest bit, or even remotely interested. But I bet the Far-East gambling syndicates and their fraternity will be. Frankly, I don''t give a toot if the mega rich barstewards want to take their elite squads on a long haul to the promised lands......I don''t support them and never will.

It''s all about Munny! Munny!.......Hunny!

And that weasel Scudamore? He will just ''Peter'' out.........the knobcheese.

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

You call this debate?

You''re merely being supercilious and rude in the Grand American Yankee Tradition.

OTBC

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

You call this debate?

You''re merely being supercilious and rude in the Grand American Yankee Tradition.

OTBC

[/quote]

Please see the response from yellow hammer as the preferred way to debate and disagree while adding quality for the benefit of other posters. I''ll let others judge whether they prefer the "yellow hammer" approach or the "baiting games" that you and Mr. Chops engage in. 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

You call this debate?

You''re merely being supercilious and rude in the Grand American Yankee Tradition.

OTBC

[/quote]

Please see the response from yellow hammer as the preferred way to debate and disagree while adding quality for the benefit of other posters. I''ll let others judge whether they prefer the "yellow hammer" approach or the "baiting games" that you and Mr. Chops engage in. 

[/quote]

"Baiting"?  Son, you have a thin skin.

I merely asked you to clarify what your point was, while disagreeing with much of what you said in a point-by-point style.  My main point - that your argument is all over the place, and focuses on the wrong target if suggesting fans are somehow to blame for FA/Premier League poicy - still stands.  For the life of me, I cannot see how you can connect the FA''s "innovative" league suggestion to play 39 games with the fact English players aren''t technically great (a failing even in 1966 when we won the world cup) or don''t achieve much (a failing ever since 1966).

Your response was to attack the poster, rather than clarify your position.

Attempting to claim the moral high ground when you are so transparently at fault here is tricky, but credit to you for trying.

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Mister Chops, I''m always game for a healthy debate of to and fro when someone decides to do a hatchet job of point by point critiquing, but I''m afraid you''re just not qualified for the competition.

You would have been far better served to take pause and give thought to what your own position is on how football has evolved in England over the past half century, and whether or not it is more or less competitive for all clubs within the Premiership and the clubs trying to get there. You could have then, with a little added thought, shared with everyone what your own view is as to why England''s top talent is not performing as well internationally as perhaps they might given the popularity of football in England from early school age on. Finally, if there are opportunities for improving the football scenario in England you might have shared that with other posters. But, of course, you didn''t do any of these things.

As I read your input Mr. Chops I found myself thinking that, if you were a theatre critic attending the Ford Theatre production of "Our American Cousin", you would have been quite pleased with yourself critiquing the interface between the English and American cousins, but completely missed the fact that something  happened to Abraham Lincoln.

[/quote]

You call this debate?

You''re merely being supercilious and rude in the Grand American Yankee Tradition.

OTBC

[/quote]

Please see the response from yellow hammer as the preferred way to debate and disagree while adding quality for the benefit of other posters. I''ll let others judge whether they prefer the "yellow hammer" approach or the "baiting games" that you and Mr. Chops engage in. 

[/quote]

Yankee. You are not only thick-skinned, but thi*k.

A sort of two-year college man railing at the Ivy League.

Your views are hardly worth my time engaging - because at the bottom you just don''t get it.

Sorry.

OTBC

 

[Mister Chops 7]

And now you have nothing to say.  How telling.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

beelsie, I sent you a private message. just wanted to make sure you were aware of it as sometimes I miss picking up mine....Yankee

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

Hello, alright?

I think that the PL knew that this would never go through. In my opinion, it''s a political action, intended to soften the blow of the next proposal, which they will announce at sometime in the future. They are hoping that everyone will agree it, on the basis of, "Well, at least it''s not as bad as the last propsal, so we will vote yes".

I think too, that the Premiership is and, will become more competitive. Everton, Villa, Portsmouth and City are all in with a good chance of reaching the top four. When was the last time that you could say that with some 12 games to go?

What''s more with money being pumped into clubs outside the top four, I can see the gap closing, much more.

Regards

Andy

 

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="beelsie"]

Thanks for the words of "welcome back!"

Reason for interlude was, that my wife passed away after long illness in Addenbrookes hospital on December 26th 2006.

I''m afraid that for a time I was as lost as I have ever been.

I am now getting back to reading and and finding that my response buds are awakening.  It is such thought provoking articles from YC and others that stir the brain box  but unfortunately are too few and far between; for measured replies. There have IMHO been too many posts, over the last year or so, that have for my liking contained so little that they do not merit much in response.

I will reply to you YC. In short, that our education system has so suffered from political correctness and human rights syndrome that our children have been pansified so much, that to get them interested and active in physical sport, means that the half hours PT in the playground before lessons and competitive sports competitions between schools; that thirty years ago, was the norm, sadly it is no longer so.  In their place are subjects such as, and are called called the humanities and social studies, to name but two.  There are others that could be mentioned and are and do, as you all know carry quite valuable A level results; but in my opinion carry very little information that is of benefit to the understanding and meaning of life out there.  This in brief means IMHO, other than watching and and being abusive and creating a nuisance environment the young men and girls of today find it much easier to pound the keys of a lap top in the lavish warmth and comfort of a pink bedroom, while mum and dad cavort with whoever to fuel their imaginary conceptions of affluence.  As I see it YC until we the population start assert ourselves and have a reassessment of values in society and get politicians of the right mind conducting our affairs.  There will be no young footballers of British birth who will be ready, or have what it takes, to take on the hungry and hardy outsiders from the poorer developing nations. OTBC!!!

[/quote]

 

Condolences to you and your family and welcome back

[Desi Rascall 0]

[quote user="Scooby"]

Crikey !! This is most enjoyable. A thoughtful and insightful debate with both sides of the arguement being represented intelligently without insults being traded (dinosaurs appart, Yankee ![;)])

Well Yankee, you ask for suggestions so how about this.  I think the NFL draft (draught?) pick system is great with, I believe, the team that finishes last getting first choice down to the top team getting last pick.  If I''m not correct please advise as I haven''t watched NFL for a while. Would we be able to establish a similar system in each division? The promoted teams getting first choice and the champions last but still the opportunity to trade picks, ie 1 x 1st round for 2nd + 3rd (or however they do it over there).  It would necessitate a pool of players being constructed, say of out of contract players or overseas players who wish to play in our leagues, and probably some sort of wage capping system with players honouring contracts.  What do you think?  There''s probably a hundred reasons why it wouldn''t work but maybe a hundred why it could?  The NFL still seems to be very profitable but much fairer, with no one team or group of teams gaining superiority.

 

[/quote]

Good post yellow hammer et all.

Firstly Yankee the greatest resistance to the Plan game from Sepp Blatter not the fans, who threatened that it would jepodise our chances of hosting the world cup. S.B isn''t exactly known as a heel dragger when it comes to innovation and marketing as the constant tinkering with the format of the champions league will attest.

Funnilly enough i was thinking the 39 game was a direct response to the NFL''s deciscion to play an annual game at wembly. From the position of merchandising it makes sense though i can''t see even the most avid footballing fan getting enthusiastic about wigan v reading live from kwalalumpa or whatever.I don''t have a problem with matches being played overseas, although i think it would be better suited to an exibition tournament rather than part and parcel of the league. I suspect making it part of the league is a way for Lancaster house to ensure it gets its slice of the footballing pie.

 In this country it would be much harder to implement a college draft system.The main problem is that in the US sport is much more of an integral part of the education system, whereas overhere its very much an extra curricular activity.Facillities and competetive standards vary to a much greater degree over here even between schools in the same LEA,furthermore if the premiership was allowed to cherry pick the brightest and best players at school leaving age where would that leave the likes of Norwich and Crewe with regards youth development?

Wage capping could be implemented but would meet resistance from both players and clubs, and using the bosman ruling as a precedent on restraints of trade it would probally be unenforceable anyway.

Generally speaking its not the fans attitudes that are pushing football over the edge of the abyss.If anyone is to blame its the top clubs that are leading the rest in a lemming like fashion along the edge of the precipice, After years of taking sky money for granted Leeds,Coventry and Southampton have rudely found out how much of a gulf has emerged between the haves and the have nots. Sadly that gap will only grow wider. As it will,for much different reasons  between the the african nations and their western european counterparts.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Desi, set a challenge for yourself. Imagine that you are the individual that have just been handed the responsibility for re-invigorating the English game. Your job is to lay out a vision that will, above all else, restore two things to English football; 1) ensure that a more level playing field is established so that all teams who participate in their respective divisions are encouraged to be competitive rather than discouraged ( financially ) which is currently predominantly true and 2) to ensure the best English footballers are provided an opportunity to compete at the highest level in the country.

I realise those are not easy challenges but imagine for a moment those are your challenges. Now, if you read what I said earlier on this thread you will know that the thread is NOT about the 39th game proposal but, rather, about the notion that so many in England feel the same way as many posters on this forum about the state of the English game, namely a widening gulf between the haves and the have not clubs and a decrease in the likelihood that the national team can rise to levels of former glory. In spite of the aforementioned the Premier league rolls on with the top clubs aspiring to build stadiums with bigger capacities and the not so top clubs ( including many in the Championship ) see themselves challenged to aspire to taking great risk and possibly financial embarrassment or suffer the wrath of their fans, or both.

In your post much of what you reflect upon just points out why things can''t be done. For example, you comment on why it would be more difficult to implement a draft system in England. If things were easy rather than difficult it would have already been done. It''s because it is difficult that leaders need to emerge, encouraged by the fans, to come to grips with the two points I mention in the first paragraph. How do you think you would tackle them Desi if, indeed, they were your responsibility? 

[Desi Rascall 0]

i''m off down the gym in a minute so i cant give a considered response to all your points

what i would say though is that living overseas you probally arn''t fully aware of how archaic and anarchic our school system actually is, and i do appreciate that the us public school system is chronically underfunded, but the underlying infrastructure underpining the sporting graduate scheme is technically sound. Believe it or not subsequent governments have tried to address our lack of sporting achievements, the tories instigated the National Lottery in part to fund sporting activities from the grassroots all the way to national centres of excellence whilst the labour have tinkered around with education,education,education and various sporting academies since they came to power,yet we are probally further away from winning the world cup today than we were in 1990.

Now the best way to secure the future of the National game would be to give a more even distribution of television money to the lower leagues so they could improve the quality of the football on offer,by being able to offer a proffessional footballer a more attractive package than sitting in a premiership clubs reserves for the majority of his career. But in all reality it is impossible to implement since all that would happen is the top tier would simply break away again.

sorry if this appears negative to you,

[Cyril the Canary 0]

Personally, I don''t think introducing a draft type system will work in how our league system is set-up.  It works excellently if it is a closed shop league like the NFL, and a predominantly one nation played sport, but in a system where there is relegation and promotion it is nigh on impossible.  If it did happen and say the 92nd team in the league gets first pick of the talent coming through, there is nothing stopping the big 4 from going out and spending a few quid on this promising youngster, but would they?  They would probably more than likely go abroad and get a cheaper african/european/south american than pay over the odds for young english talent, leaving the young player to develope, or not, in the lower divisions where the coaching is not as good.  Lets face it nugent worth £6m, don''t think so, a club would rather spend less than half that on a young african player, who is equally as talented and equally untried. And say the PL champions get 92nd pick, they''ll just go out and buy something from deepest darkest bulgaria, that has been playing for their club in UEFA cup or something instead.  And will probably terminate their youngsters contract within a year.  All hypothetical of course.  But I can see it happening.

Just reading back what I''ve written there is probably a good arguement there as well for developing the draft system, at least if the premiership clubs did decide to buy lower leagues draft picks it would distribute some of the money away from the rich into the lower leagues.

Anyhow its not really viable.

I would like to see the FA gain back more control with what goes on with the PL and english football in general, so they have more say on how the money is distributed.  With all the money and revenue flowing into the english game there should be absolutely no reason why England shouldn''t be sitting atop the world looking down on everyone else.  With the money being redistributed I''d like to see clubs have tie-ups with local clubs where they have an input on how the youth players are developed and these local clubs become feeder clubs.  For instance, with the extra revenue NCFC recieve through the FA they could have tie ups with hellesdon U-7''s right through to Kings Lynn for the development of local youth players where their coaches are given the right training and qualifications to nurture these players. 

Another route we could take is similar to a rule that is enforced within the Spanish league set-up, where they are not allowed to have no more than 3 non-eu players within their matchday squad.  OK this doesn''t stop EU nationals from playing for the teams, but it will at least slightly improve the chances of home grown talent of making the first team squads of the PL teams.  It seems to work within the spanish leagues as there is a far higher proportion of spanish nationals playing in their league.  Plus with the re-allocation of money down the leagues, the emphasis on getting results fast might dwindle and therefore managers giving home grown youth talent a chance might increase.  I like the idea of what Blatter has previously said about a quota system, even though it goes against EU employment laws, I do believe it should be challenged so it protects the identity of each countries league.

Finally another idea we could look into is pretty radical, but it could increase the chances of England actually winning the world cup.  The welsh rugby side have done it for awhile, the croats have done it recently, so why shouldn''t we.  I''m talking about getting foreign nationals to play for England.  With half of Arsenals youth team foreign and been living in this country since they were 12, could Mr. Capello or whoever chat them up and ask them to play for England when they have been resident here 5 years.  Its an idea!!

There are probably hundreds of holes in my ideas and arguements but like scudamore i''m just putting it out there.

As for the English fans trying to do something to change the way it is run I think even if everyone joined forces for a day of protest nothing would change.  The owners would just ''franchise'' the clubs out and then they can get their game abroad. Nothing will change with what fans could do. It needs men with balls at Soho Square to bring Football Home.