Turners/Delia & Co... either put up or shut up!!!

[megson 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="megson"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Smudger,

Do you really have such blind hatred for the club at the minute, that you''re now suggesting that potential signings are actually going to the press to spout lies about having a desire to join us???

The comments from David Marshall in my opinion (and many other fans) were great to hear. We know we''ve got top facilities, what we''ve sometimes questioned is where the club is going and their ambition. For a good quality young keeper to come out and categorically state that he wants to sign for us, has to be taken as a sign that despite our poor performance last year, the work being done by Grant et al, is such that we can attract these sorts of players again.

Why shouldn''t we be haggling over the price of a player? Even if we have more than enough cash available to pay ''x'' amount more, why should we pay over the odds for a player, particularly one who''s actually made it clear that he sees his future with us, as against his current club? Only the likes of Abramovich can afford to simply get their blank cheque book out and pay whatever money, to get a player regardless.

There is no smokescreen or spin from the board regarding signings, as many others have already stated, it hasn''t been our board telling everyone about potential signings, it''s been the players/agents/clubs that we''ve approached with bids that didn''t keep their mouths shut.

As for these signings being unrealistic because we know they won''t join - what a ridiculous statement that is. If we''d said we were looking at signing Drogba or Henry, then I''d understand the sentiment, but making offers on players like Sharp to me is not only very viable, but highly sensible. If the player does choose not to come to us, at least we made the attempt.

If we weren''t trying to get players like Sharp, then people such as yourself and Wiz would be ranting on here about the boards lack of ambition, their refusal to sign players - or that they''re signing unheard of nobody''s or old journeymen.

Please can you be honest and advise what it would take for you to be positive about potential signings? Who do you feel we should be looking to sign at the minute, that does fall into this magic category you seem to have, whereby the player is not out of our league, too old, too young, too expensive, too cheap, too crap or too Scottish???

I personally find it interesting that a professional footballer, currently playing for the top club in Scotland who was on loan here last season can see us pushing for promotion, whereas a fan who has admitted not even attending a game for two years who posts nothing but negativity -  can''t.

I''m not trying to haev a go at you over this, as we are all entitled to our opinions, but even the most neutral viewer on this situation would have to question your reasoning. Can you give a constructive and factual response as to why you think the overall situation is so bad, what the board should be doing to change this, how the manager can change this (I presume by signing players you recommend?), why the vast majority of fans who don''t want the board out are simply mindless sheep, and most importantly for me - why you haven''t been to a game in years, yet profess far more knowledge about current players and tactics, than fans who go every week - and even Peter Grant himself?

Regards

Indy
[/quote]

No way in hell you are going to get a reasonable reply to this very well constructed post.

Be interesting to see which few words he decides to pick out to prove you "wrong" though.

[/quote]

The moon is made of cheese and has nice knobbly holes in it!!!  [;)]

[/quote]

lol, that did actually make me laugh!

[Indy_Bones 442]

Any chance yet of getting a constructive reply yet Smudger, or was some flippant comment about the moon the best you can offer?No offence, but why go onto a forum if you''re not willing to even try to engage is a sensible conversation/debate.I asked reasonable questions in a fair manner, and I would have thought you''d have jumped at the chance to put across your views in a well thought out way, to someone who''s not either being overly judgmental or abusive.If you want a lot of fans to consider what you''re saying more seriously, then surely, this is the ideal opportunity to give us some good reasons???

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Any chance yet of getting a constructive reply yet Smudger, or was some flippant comment about the moon the best you can offer?

No offence, but why go onto a forum if you''re not willing to even try to engage is a sensible conversation/debate.

I asked reasonable questions in a fair manner, and I would have thought you''d have jumped at the chance to put across your views in a well thought out way, to someone who''s not either being overly judgmental or abusive.

If you want a lot of fans to consider what you''re saying more seriously, then surely, this is the ideal opportunity to give us some good reasons???
[/quote]

Don''t hold your breath waiting Indy.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Any chance yet of getting a constructive reply yet Smudger, or was some flippant comment about the moon the best you can offer?

No offence, but why go onto a forum if you''re not willing to even try to engage is a sensible conversation/debate.

I asked reasonable questions in a fair manner, and I would have thought you''d have jumped at the chance to put across your views in a well thought out way, to someone who''s not either being overly judgmental or abusive.

If you want a lot of fans to consider what you''re saying more seriously, then surely, this is the ideal opportunity to give us some good reasons???
[/quote]

My response was to MEGSON and RICARDO and others who doubt that I will come back to you and answer your post reasonably.

Been a busy guy over the back end of last week and the weekend INDY hence my sarcastic response to MEGSON who obviously believes that I have no life whatsoever.

Will do my best to give you a response later today or if not tomorrow mate... you see I may even have to engage my brain a little in this one!!!  [;)]

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

... you see I may even have to engage my brain a little in this one!!!  [;)]

[/quote]

We won''t hold our breath....lol!! [:)] Sorry, couldn''t resist. [;)] 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="macdougalls perm"][quote user="Smudger"]

... you see I may even have to engage my brain a little in this one!!!  [;)]

[/quote]

We won''t hold our breath....lol!! [:)] Sorry, couldn''t resist. [;)] 

[/quote]

Shame that MACCY D... I was so hoping you would... you and Delia together... not coming up for air.... lol!!!  Sorry I couldn''t resist the little bite back either  [;)]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Smudger,

Do you really have such blind hatred for the club at the minute, that you''re now suggesting that potential signings are actually going to the press to spout lies about having a desire to join us???

The comments from David Marshall in my opinion (and many other fans) were great to hear. We know we''ve got top facilities, what we''ve sometimes questioned is where the club is going and their ambition. For a good quality young keeper to come out and categorically state that he wants to sign for us, has to be taken as a sign that despite our poor performance last year, the work being done by Grant et al, is such that we can attract these sorts of players again.

Why shouldn''t we be haggling over the price of a player? Even if we have more than enough cash available to pay ''x'' amount more, why should we pay over the odds for a player, particularly one who''s actually made it clear that he sees his future with us, as against his current club? Only the likes of Abramovich can afford to simply get their blank cheque book out and pay whatever money, to get a player regardless.

There is no smokescreen or spin from the board regarding signings, as many others have already stated, it hasn''t been our board telling everyone about potential signings, it''s been the players/agents/clubs that we''ve approached with bids that didn''t keep their mouths shut.

As for these signings being unrealistic because we know they won''t join - what a ridiculous statement that is. If we''d said we were looking at signing Drogba or Henry, then I''d understand the sentiment, but making offers on players like Sharp to me is not only very viable, but highly sensible. If the player does choose not to come to us, at least we made the attempt.

If we weren''t trying to get players like Sharp, then people such as yourself and Wiz would be ranting on here about the boards lack of ambition, their refusal to sign players - or that they''re signing unheard of nobody''s or old journeymen.

Please can you be honest and advise what it would take for you to be positive about potential signings? Who do you feel we should be looking to sign at the minute, that does fall into this magic category you seem to have, whereby the player is not out of our league, too old, too young, too expensive, too cheap, too crap or too Scottish???

I personally find it interesting that a professional footballer, currently playing for the top club in Scotland who was on loan here last season can see us pushing for promotion, whereas a fan who has admitted not even attending a game for two years who posts nothing but negativity -  can''t.

I''m not trying to haev a go at you over this, as we are all entitled to our opinions, but even the most neutral viewer on this situation would have to question your reasoning. Can you give a constructive and factual response as to why you think the overall situation is so bad, what the board should be doing to change this, how the manager can change this (I presume by signing players you recommend?), why the vast majority of fans who don''t want the board out are simply mindless sheep, and most importantly for me - why you haven''t been to a game in years, yet profess far more knowledge about current players and tactics, than fans who go every week - and even Peter Grant himself?

Regards

Indy
[/quote]

Finally I will spare you 5 or 10 minutes of my time INDY...

Firstly I do not have a blind hatred for the club or the people who are running it...  I am just sick of the people who are at the helm of NCFCplc making mugs out of your average NCFC fan or Norfolk folk.

David Marshall may of been tempted to of taken the opportunity of working with Granty... yet the prudent eye on the clubs purse strings by those in the boardroom seems to have already ended any chance that we had of signing Marshall... yet agin we must now scrap around in the bargain basement bucket looking for a keeper to replace the hapless Gallagher....

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY WE SHOULD OF NOT PUT IN SUCH A LAUGHABLE OFFER FOR MARSHALL IN THE FIRST PLACE...

Because my friend yet again our board of directors have shown to the outside world that we have no ambition whatsoever.... hence why Marshall and his agent now seem more willing to stay at Celtic and work things out there!!!

Once again with SHARP there is no chance that we are going to get him... It was very unlikely even before the rumour of Earnshaw''s proposed move to Derby was leaked to the press let alone before the news of Marshall probably opting to stay at Celtic as well.

You see we are never going to sign these types of players now because we have left it until the wrong time to attempt to sign them and we are not making the right kind of noises...

Varney opted to go to Charlton and so would anybody else of done placed in his shoes unless they had totally lost their marbles.

SHARP will obviously choose either Wolves or West Brom because they both have a much better team than us and more money to spend... it really doesn''t take a genius to figure that out does it?

The time for us to invest in getting out of this league was last season and the season prior to that...  when we should of been chasing the signature of the likes of Steve Sidwell, Freddie Eastwood etc we were chasing the likes of Andy Hughes, Jason Jarret and Peter Thorne...

Do I really need to say any more than that?

We have shown ourselves to be a club that is PRUDENT and UNAMBITIOUS in the two seasons since relegation and now there are at least 6 clubs that any player would choose to move to before thinking about moving to Carrow Road.

It is not down to who we sign but how much money is spent as to how the board should be judged... the rest is down to Granty...

If we are keeping Earnie then we need to be spending £3million plus.  If we are selling Earnie then we need to spend at least £7million in my opinion.

I still think we need a target man but we would need to show some kind of ambition to get one...Chris Porter at Oldham would be my choice or we could attempt signing Riordan again if we were being ambitious (seeing as he will of probably dropped down the pecking order at Celtic again after them signing Chris Killen the other week).  I would not mind Sharp as Earnies replacement but it would not work playing him alongside Earnie (as they are too similar).  I think sharp could work alongside Porter or Riordan though very well indeed... but if we are to bring Sharp in and sell Earnie then we still need to be spending £5million on the rest of the team.

Now Marshall seems to be saying no... I would go for Alexander if he is available on a free transfer and attempt to bring Joe Lewis through during the year.

I would also sign a right back and two centre backs plus at least one midfielder.. not sure who I would go for in these positions at the moment though because as ususal we have been so slow to move on many players that a lot of them have been snapped up.

I may not of attended at Carrow Road for the last 18 months or so but what has changed during that time?  Have we actually signed anybody that has had a major impact on the team and the way we play (apart from Earnie who is a direct replacement for Ashton anyway)?

I don''t believe that anything has changed in the last 18months... 

and furthermore the way things are going I do not see that any improvement will be made in the coming 18months!!!

Hope this clears a few things up for you???  [:D]  

[Old Shuck 192]

"THAT IS EXACTLY WHY WE SHOULD OF NOT PUT IN SUCH A LAUGHABLE OFFER FOR MARSHALL IN THE FIRST PLACE..."

Got to agree with you there Smudger. Everything seemed to be in place, Marshall said he wanted to come here, his dreaded agent said he wanted to join us and the scene was set...

Seems we dithered, then offered a "silly" (in Celtic''s mind) valuation and have now dithered some more. In the meantime, Marshall has seen the club that he wanted to go to seem to cool their interest, "...well, how much do they really want and value me?.." & is probably now going to play down the link to us, as is Willie McKay. I think we have lost him, or look as though we are going to, simply because we have prevaricated on this one and missed the best opportunity over what might only be something like £250''000 extra, or even less?

Hibs are waiting to talk to him and they may well get him now.

[Chunky! 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

"THAT IS EXACTLY WHY WE SHOULD OF NOT PUT IN SUCH A LAUGHABLE OFFER FOR MARSHALL IN THE FIRST PLACE..."

Got to agree with you there Smudger. Everything seemed to be in place, Marshall said he wanted to come here, his dreaded agent said he wanted to join us and the scene was set...

Seems we dithered, then offered a "silly" (in Celtic''s mind) valuation and have now dithered some more. In the meantime, Marshall has seen the club that he wanted to go to seem to cool their interest, "...well, how much do they really want and value me?.." & is probably now going to play down the link to us, as is Willie McKay. I think we have lost him, or look as though we are going to, simply because we have prevaricated on this one and missed the best opportunity over what might only be something like £250''000 extra, or even less?

Hibs are waiting to talk to him and they may well get him now.

[/quote]

Sorry to say this guys, but £500k is not a laughable offer for Marshall and if anything, it put Hibs at the time.  Bit of reality please!  Any larger initial offer would have been stupid, though I feel that we probably ended up offering more.  Whether it was enough, or our bid was just a hand bit of posturing for Marshall to get an improved contract we''ll never know.

 

OTBC!

Chunky

[Temp the Revelator 0]

Snudger said:

''The time for us to invest in getting out of this league was last season and the season prior to that...  when we should of been chasing the signature of the likes of Steve Sidwell, Freddie Eastwood etc we were chasing the likes of Andy Hughes, Jason Jarret and Peter Thorne...

Do I really need to say any more than that?''

You seem to be conveniently forgetting that the players you mentioned were the manager''s choice at that time - although many fans were suggesting we go after the kind of players you mentioned, never was it stated that these were targets of Worthington.  Fail to see how that is the Board or Club''s fault, personally.

[Indy_Bones 442]

Smudger,Firstly, thank you for taking the time to put a constructed reply together. I''ll reply to your points if I may.Personally, I don''t think the Marshall offer could be classed as laughable. The problem here is that there''s no defninitive guidleline on valuation, as Celtic stated beforehand that they weren''t really looking to sell. In my mind, we''d likely have spoken to McKay to see what sort of price he thought we be viable, and then made an offer based on this. Being fair, unless you''re already established as a top goalkeeper/international, you won''t see many in that position going for even a million, which is close to what I believe Celtic are looking for.I do totally agree that we needed to spend better in the past two seasons, but just because we''ve failed to do so then, does not mean we shouldn''t bother now! I still don''t see Sharp''s decision as so obvious. Wolves for all their new money etc, are perennial underacheivers, they can''t make it out of the playoffs. and they''ve not truly challenged for the league for far longer than us! West Brom are somewhat different, but even so, I don''t see them as particularly much better then us, and I feel that''s only because we were allowed to drop to this level, and we can easily get back up again.As for the suggestion we should have been signing the likes of Eastwood and Sidwell - be fair, at the time, Sidwell wasn''t looking to leave Reading, and following their promotion, the move was even less possible. Back in 2004, Eastwood was an unknown quantity, Southend had signed some young striker on loan from Gray''s Athletic, and didn''t make him a permanent fixture until November 2005. Bearing in mind that at the time, Southend were in League 2, his scoring record was not as impressive as it would have been at CCC level or above. At this point, us making an approach would have been no different than looking at the likes of Hawley or Hayter this season - a decision which many fans disagreed with as it was felt we were looking for ''bargain basement'' players.I''m sure that there are at least 6 clubs players would choose to sign for before us at this level, geographically we''re not an attractive prospect to many players, plus we''ve got good competition at this level from clubs, who like us, were once good Premiership teams who have dipped in the last 5-10 years, you only have to look at the likes of QPR to see how much worse this could be.In our case however, whilst recent league performance has been poor, everything else about the club is top class. Great fan base, top facilities, a hungry young manager who wants to change things. good off the field investments and now people like the Turner''s onboard who will surely help the financial decisions being made by the club.I can''t say as your statement:"It is not down to who we sign but how much money is spent as to how the board should be judged.. the rest is down to Granty..."is reasonable. When this was the case under Worthington, the board were heavily criticised for not getting more involved in football matters and leaving the whole transfer decision to NW. Money was available to spend, but NW either chose not to use it, or used it buying the wrong players. After seeing Cotterill turn out for Wigan this season, I''m glad he did decide to go there instead, as that would have been £2 million of our cash in the bin!Are we saying that the board should force Grant to spend ''x'' amount of cash??? If, like NW, he doesn''t approach them to buy players, how is that the boards fault? And if they try to avoid this and demand he signs players, then they''ll be criticised for getting involved in the football side which they know little about, and accused of preventing Grant from doing the job his way.I would happily see Riordan or Sharp sign, but I also have a lot of belief that we''ll see far more from the likes of Brown this season. From a pure footballing attribute outlook, his abilities are totally suited to playing a hold-up role, and with the likes of Dublin at the club to help him develop, he''s surely a potential bargain for the £325k we got him for.We''ve already signed a right back in Otsemobor, who is simply waiting for the 1st of July to join up with the team when his contract expires at Crewe. This is a done deal AFAIK. I do agree completely that we need a centre half, and on this score, I actually think the Grant is looking to see who''s going to be available on a free/cheap, from the Prem before making a move in this area.The midfield one is an interesting poser, personally I think Safri is on his way out, and I''d actually like to see Etuhu drop back into the defensive midfield role (a''la Gilberto) with us bringing in a tricky, skillful passer of the ball to play infront of him and link with the wingers/strikers. In theory, either Chadwick or Croft could play in this role, but we''d still need to sign as we''ve still got the problem of a small overall squad.The key factor for me is - Who is Grant going to bring in over the next month or two? The right signings, and the right style of play and we really could be challenging to go up again, and the decision to release the likes of McVeigh and Thorne shows me that Grant is moving in the right direction to do this. However we need to make sure that we''re getting the likes of Sharp in, and not more Jason Jarrett''s!Indy.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Smudger,

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to put a constructed reply together. I''ll reply to your points if I may.

Personally, I don''t think the Marshall offer could be classed as laughable. The problem here is that there''s no defninitive guidleline on valuation, as Celtic stated beforehand that they weren''t really looking to sell. In my mind, we''d likely have spoken to McKay to see what sort of price he thought we be viable, and then made an offer based on this.

Being fair, unless you''re already established as a top goalkeeper/international, you won''t see many in that position going for even a million, which is close to what I believe Celtic are looking for.

I do totally agree that we needed to spend better in the past two seasons, but just because we''ve failed to do so then, does not mean we shouldn''t bother now! I still don''t see Sharp''s decision as so obvious. Wolves for all their new money etc, are perennial underacheivers, they can''t make it out of the playoffs. and they''ve not truly challenged for the league for far longer than us! West Brom are somewhat different, but even so, I don''t see them as particularly much better then us, and I feel that''s only because we were allowed to drop to this level, and we can easily get back up again.

As for the suggestion we should have been signing the likes of Eastwood and Sidwell - be fair, at the time, Sidwell wasn''t looking to leave Reading, and following their promotion, the move was even less possible.

Back in 2004, Eastwood was an unknown quantity, Southend had signed some young striker on loan from Gray''s Athletic, and didn''t make him a permanent fixture until November 2005. Bearing in mind that at the time, Southend were in League 2, his scoring record was not as impressive as it would have been at CCC level or above. At this point, us making an approach would have been no different than looking at the likes of Hawley or Hayter this season - a decision which many fans disagreed with as it was felt we were looking for ''bargain basement'' players.

I''m sure that there are at least 6 clubs players would choose to sign for before us at this level, geographically we''re not an attractive prospect to many players, plus we''ve got good competition at this level from clubs, who like us, were once good Premiership teams who have dipped in the last 5-10 years, you only have to look at the likes of QPR to see how much worse this could be.

In our case however, whilst recent league performance has been poor, everything else about the club is top class. Great fan base, top facilities, a hungry young manager who wants to change things. good off the field investments and now people like the Turner''s onboard who will surely help the financial decisions being made by the club.

I can''t say as your statement:
"It is not down to who we sign but how much money is spent as to how the board should be judged.. the rest is down to Granty..."
is reasonable. When this was the case under Worthington, the board were heavily criticised for not getting more involved in football matters and leaving the whole transfer decision to NW. Money was available to spend, but NW either chose not to use it, or used it buying the wrong players. After seeing Cotterill turn out for Wigan this season, I''m glad he did decide to go there instead, as that would have been £2 million of our cash in the bin!

Are we saying that the board should force Grant to spend ''x'' amount of cash??? If, like NW, he doesn''t approach them to buy players, how is that the boards fault? And if they try to avoid this and demand he signs players, then they''ll be criticised for getting involved in the football side which they know little about, and accused of preventing Grant from doing the job his way.

I would happily see Riordan or Sharp sign, but I also have a lot of belief that we''ll see far more from the likes of Brown this season. From a pure footballing attribute outlook, his abilities are totally suited to playing a hold-up role, and with the likes of Dublin at the club to help him develop, he''s surely a potential bargain for the £325k we got him for.

We''ve already signed a right back in Otsemobor, who is simply waiting for the 1st of July to join up with the team when his contract expires at Crewe. This is a done deal AFAIK. I do agree completely that we need a centre half, and on this score, I actually think the Grant is looking to see who''s going to be available on a free/cheap, from the Prem before making a move in this area.

The midfield one is an interesting poser, personally I think Safri is on his way out, and I''d actually like to see Etuhu drop back into the defensive midfield role (a''la Gilberto) with us bringing in a tricky, skillful passer of the ball to play infront of him and link with the wingers/strikers. In theory, either Chadwick or Croft could play in this role, but we''d still need to sign as we''ve still got the problem of a small overall squad.

The key factor for me is - Who is Grant going to bring in over the next month or two? The right signings, and the right style of play and we really could be challenging to go up again, and the decision to release the likes of McVeigh and Thorne shows me that Grant is moving in the right direction to do this. However we need to make sure that we''re getting the likes of Sharp in, and not more Jason Jarrett''s!

Indy.
[/quote]

I agree that Celtic were probably looking at receiving in the region of £1million for Marshall... so in my book to only offer half of that is laughable!!!

We needed to be offering at least £750k with extras on promotion if we were to have any chance of getting him... to be stalling over £250k when we wasted £350k on Chris Brown sums up either the boards knowledge of football or Grants knowledge of football (and I know exactly where I would lay the blame).

Granty can only give the board names of players that he would like to sign... In my opinion the board would then sit down with him and discuss how much money (max) they were willing to offer for a certain player... I then feel that they would make a joint agreement on how much is initially offered and whether they are prepared to offer more shoul that offer be declined.

So NCFC... favourites to win the Championship by a country mile or Reading unlikely to do anything more than maybe challenge for the play-off''s....  Steve Sidwell would of come to Norwich if we had put in an initial bid of £2million plu upon relegation... but instead we were looking at picking up bargains like Jarret and Hughes for under £500k....

We spent no way near enough and I again believe that was not Worthy''s fault but those in the boardroom.

As for the Cotteril affair... if £2million was there then where is it now?  Why was it not invested in January when the board gambled with our Championship future?

If that £2million is still there and £2million has been invested in to the transfer kitty by the Turners then we should be spending at least £4million this summer without any more departures (if players leave then all the money from these sales must be invested immediately)....  Yet again we all know that this will not happen!!!

I agree that we should try and cash in on Safri and would prefer Etuhu to him in the midfield holding role anyhow...I do think it was an error to get rid of paul McVeigh though and believe that a decent manager would get the best out of him (he can play in several positions and we have several other players at the club who are not as good as him... several of whom have been brought in by Grant).

Unless we spend £4million plus and let nobody go or invest that amount plus whatever we receive for selling any of our players then I believe that we have no chance of going up again this year and yet again that just will not be good enough.

Now I know that we are not going to see eye to eye on most of the points raised here (at this moment in time anyhow) so I will leave the last word to your good self...

SMUDGE

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Temp the Revelator"]

Snudger said:

''The time for us to invest in getting out of this league was last season and the season prior to that...  when we should of been chasing the signature of the likes of Steve Sidwell, Freddie Eastwood etc we were chasing the likes of Andy Hughes, Jason Jarret and Peter Thorne...

Do I really need to say any more than that?''

You seem to be conveniently forgetting that the players you mentioned were the manager''s choice at that time - although many fans were suggesting we go after the kind of players you mentioned, never was it stated that these were targets of Worthington.  Fail to see how that is the Board or Club''s fault, personally.

[/quote]

Err, McSheffrey, Hulse, Howard . . .

 

[Mr.Carrow 380]

Oh my god, it actually seems like some people seriously believe that Worthy went for the likes of Jarrett and Thorn on frees when he had millions waiting there to be spent. And presumably Worthy really wanted a tiny squad almost crippled by a handful of the injuries you inevitably pick up in this physical league? Hilarious! If people are going to bother posting at least try to make it remotely connected with reality.

[Indy_Bones 442]

Hang on a minute, at the time we signed Thorne, he was arguably one of the most consistent strikers in the league, and had been for years. He would normally guarantee you 12-15 a season.Even spending millions does not guarantee this sort of return, so to get a player offering that on a free, made far more sense than splashing the cash for the potential same result.Fine, it didn''t work out, and Thorne didn''t perform as well as he had for the decade before that, but it was worth the move.Jarrett was also a player with potential. He''d done well at Wigan, and NW knew him from his time at blackpool.As for it being the lack of funds which stopped NW, not all managers look to spend endless money on players, why is Harry Redknapp known for his wheeling and dealing? How have Bolton managed to do so well hardly spending anything each year? Why is it that Steve Coppell keeps getting results on smaller budgets - I guess it was because Reading had no money and an unambitious board which forced him to sign Kevin Doyle for peanuts? - surely in your view he should have spent millions on someone else...It comes down to management acumen, and the ability to judge ability - both present and potential. Some managers simply spend cash like it''s water, others look to get talent in on a shoestring.NW also decided that £500k on Hughes was a sound investment, he thought that Helveg would do a good job, and decided that Malky was past it...clearly all the boards fault.Seeing as how we don''t know how much cash was genuinely available it''s difficult to apportion blame, but the most expensive player is not necessarily the best, and neither is every free transfer a load of rubbish.

[Mr.Carrow 380]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Hang on a minute, at the time we signed Thorne, he was arguably one of the most consistent strikers in the league, and had been for years. He would normally guarantee you 12-15 a season.

Even spending millions does not guarantee this sort of return, so to get a player offering that on a free, made far more sense than splashing the cash for the potential same result.

Fine, it didn''t work out, and Thorne didn''t perform as well as he had for the decade before that, but it was worth the move.

Jarrett was also a player with potential. He''d done well at Wigan, and NW knew him from his time at blackpool.

As for it being the lack of funds which stopped NW, not all managers look to spend endless money on players, why is Harry Redknapp known for his wheeling and dealing? How have Bolton managed to do so well hardly spending anything each year?

Why is it that Steve Coppell keeps getting results on smaller budgets - I guess it was because Reading had no money and an unambitious board which forced him to sign Kevin Doyle for peanuts? - surely in your view he should have spent millions on someone else...

It comes down to management acumen, and the ability to judge ability - both present and potential. Some managers simply spend cash like it''s water, others look to get talent in on a shoestring.

NW also decided that £500k on Hughes was a sound investment, he thought that Helveg would do a good job, and decided that Malky was past it...clearly all the boards fault.

Seeing as how we don''t know how much cash was genuinely available it''s difficult to apportion blame, but the most expensive player is not necessarily the best, and neither is every free transfer a load of rubbish.
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When we signed Thorne he was the same age as when we decided Iwan was past it. We had been heavily linked with Hulse,Howard and McSheffrey and as ever went for the bargain basement option. In midfield, we were heavily linked with Koumas,Halford and Sidwell (who WAS unsettled at Reading at the time and best mates with Hughes) and got a player on a free who had hardly played the previous season.

I agree that good players can be picked up cheap or free, but a bargain can also cost a large initial outlay-i see Reading have made a large profit on Halford in a matter of months, just as we did on Ashton and will do on Earnshaw (both Worthy signings).

The current board have sanctioned transfer fees of over £1million TWICE in their years in charge. One was Ashton (thanks to £1.5million from the fans "B" shares) and the other was Earnshaw-bought with less than half of Ashtons fee from W.Ham, so i think that this fact is ample evidence that they are extremely reluctant to spend good money on a player no matter how highly the manager rates him.

For two seasons now we have had a tiny,weak squad with precious little competition or cover for injuries and the prevaling attitude has been to wait around for months in the hope of eventually ekeing out a bargain to fill a problem position, than to spend some money solving the problem at the first opportunity. This approach is just as dangerous and reckless as throwing money around as it could lead to a disastrous relegation and now leaves us so weak that we HAVE to spend money to avert that nightmare scenario.

Its interesting that the two clubs heavily linked with a £5million move for Earnshaw are Derby (just promoted) and Watford (just relegated). When we were promoted we were not prepared to spend £2.5million on Crouch or Ashton and instead played Doherty upfront. On relegation we sold £3million worth of talent and spent £750k on replacements. Says it all really. Truly pathetic.