Robin Sainty Article today

[essex canary 505]

Superb!

[......and Smith must score. 1,360]

What happened to ' Toodle Pip ' ?

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Robin Sainty: New bill can’t come soon enough for majority of clubs | The Pink Un

Happy to help the technically challenged.

Toodle Pip.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

9 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

What happened to ' Toodle Pip ' ?

It was yet another example of Oh look at me, everything is all about me. Graham you surely never thought it was really going to happen and give it a few days and he will be back in full typical essex mode.

[essex canary 505]

10 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

What happened to ' Toodle Pip ' ?

Easter Saturday seems the most appropriate day of the year to be Essex free.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Just now, essex canary said:

Easter Saturday seems the most appropriate day of the year to be Essex free.

Any day of the year is an appropriate day on here.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

We’re headed for a separation of the big clubs and the regular clubs. The pyramid just isn’t really working. It’s best for everyone if they just do one and we reclaim football.

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

4 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

reclaim football

Yes, good slogan. now what? ithink we might need something more detailed before you are declared right for the second time in your life.

Please supply more info on how,exactly, we  'reclaim football'.......should get a few politicians behind such a powerful slogan.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Yes, good slogan. now what? ithink we might need something more detailed before you are declared right for the second time in your life.

Please supply more info on how,exactly, we  'reclaim football'.......should get a few politicians behind such a powerful slogan.

Take rugby union and rugby league. It’s a separation but still kind of the same.

Regular teams alliance could lead to more fan representation, freedom from increasingly stupid rules and regulations, increasing use of domestically produced talent. 

I think it’d be a lot like college football and NFL. Yeah, we’d probably act as a sort of feeder league but it doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the product.

Or we could just stay as it is now, it’s going great, especially for teams our size. Can’t wait to go up and be cheated and thrashed in a whole bunch of new and original ways.

 

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

1 minute ago, The Real Buh said:

Take rugby union and rugby league. It’s a separation but still kind of the same.

Regular teams alliance could lead to more fan representation, freedom from increasingly stupid rules and regulations, increasing use of domestically produced talent. 

I think it’d be a lot like college football and NFL. Yeah, we’d probably act as a sort of feeder league but it doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the product.

Or we could just stay as it is now, it’s going great, especially for teams our size. Can’t wait to go up and be cheated and thrashed in a whole bunch of new and original ways.

 

I think your faith in human nature is admirable, give a new system a few years and there'll be a new elite , maybe including us , maybe not. 

[The Real Buh 3,480]

1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

I think your faith in human nature is admirable, give a new system a few years and there'll be a new elite , maybe including us , maybe not. 

The only thing in this world that is predictable in this world is that things will change. 
 

Seems like we are headed for a change when they are suggesting purple cards and deliberately turning a blind eye to the financial misdeeds of the biggest clubs for monetary reasons

[Pyro Pete 1,918]

How to take a screenshot on any device

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

49 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The only thing in this world that is predictable in this world is that things will change. 
 

Seems like we are headed for a change when they are suggesting purple cards and deliberately turning a blind eye to the financial misdeeds of the biggest clubs for monetary reasons

Yes, the sky is blue.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

10 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Yes, the sky is blue.

Illuminating discourse

[......and Smith must score. 1,360]

17 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Yes, the sky is blue.

 

5 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Illuminating discourse

More illuminating than when it’s not.

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

10 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Where does he state that exactly?

Nothing EFFECTIVE has been done about Manchester City.

Third column. 

The Premier League have charged Manchester City on 115 counts. Have you considered how time consuming it is to have to deal with some of the best lawyers in the world on 115 extremely complex charges, especially when a lot of the information you are using was originally obtained illegally? It will take a very long time,especially when other agencies are almost certainly involved. Stop being naive. 

 

Edited March 29 by dylanisabaddog

[essex canary 505]

Perhaps the problem is 'some of the best lawyers in the world' who are more than happy to run arguments, many of them doubtless specious, in order to avoid justice in the same season as the indiscretion? A solution not available to smaller clubs therefore undermining the integrity of sport.

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

11 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Perhaps the problem is 'some of the best lawyers in the world' who are more than happy to run arguments, many of them doubtless specious, in order to avoid justice in the same season as the indiscretion? A solution not available to smaller clubs therefore undermining the integrity of sport.

Do you think club's shouldn't be allowed legal representation? 

Do you think Everton and Forest weren't represented? 

Stop being ridiculous. This is 115 complex charges, one of which involves potentially criminal behaviour and another agency. And the information being used was originally obtained illegally. 

The Premier League could of course rush to judgement but what do you think would happen if they did?  There would be an appeal and that would take even longer. 

Sainty is out of his depth and so are you. Sorry, but neither of you has got the faintest idea what you're talking about. 

Edited March 29 by dylanisabaddog

[The Raptor 1,231]

2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Yes, the sky is blue.

As long as it isn't blue and white. Then we'd have to **** on it.

[essex canary 505]

11 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Do you think club's shouldn't be allowed legal representation? 

Do you think Everton and Forest weren't represented? 

Stop being ridiculous. This is 115 complex charges, one of which involves potentially criminal behaviour and another agency. And the information being used was originally obtained illegally. 

The Premier League could of course rush to judgement but what do you think would happen if they did?  There would be an appeal and that would take even longer. 

Sainty is out of his depth and so are you. Sorry, but neither of you has got the faintest idea what you're talking about. 

Everton and Forest aren't being punished in the same season as the indiscretion either. I guess Luton Town could get some kind of poetic justice in that they may stay up when they otherwise wouldn't which is at least compensation for their ridiculous National League banishment which they doubtless couldn't afford to defend with the best lawyers in the world. It wouldn't truly merit them another season of Premier League wealth though would it?

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

Everton and Forest aren't being punished in the same season as the indiscretion either. I guess Luton Town could get some kind of poetic justice in that they may stay up when they otherwise wouldn't which is at least compensation for their ridiculous National League banishment which they doubtless couldn't afford to defend with the best lawyers in the world. It wouldn't truly merit them another season of Premier League wealth though would it?

Stop digging yourself in a hole. 

THIS IS 115 CHARGES. 

Just one of those charges involves paying a senior non domiciled employee a huge amount without the operation of PAYE. That charge alone is enough to warrant relegation and will undoubtedly have aroused the interest of HMRC who may wish to prosecute which means the CPS will be involved.  Now add another 114 charges to that!

One of those is the over valuation of advertising rights. The Premier League have to prove that Manchester City were paid too much for advertising. To do that you need to take apart the accounts of a multi national corporation and tackle their lawyers and accountants. 

Can you even begin to comprehend the enormity of it? If found guilty on all counts they could be looking at relegation to the National League. But I'll tell you what, let's do it next week and hope they don't appeal...... 

The charge against Forest was quite simply that they broke the rules by delaying the transfer of Johnson by 2 months to drive the price up by £10m. They didn't deny the charge, they just thought they had behaved reasonably. That was it, and not surprisingly it didn't take long.

What you're doing is comparing War and Peace to a nursery rhyme. 

Sainty is a bog standard football writer. He knows **** all about legal or financial matters. 

I'm sorry, but if this was a legal fraud trial it would be the most complex in UK history. And you're relying on a third rate football reporter who probably doesn't know his 9 x table. 

Edited March 29 by dylanisabaddog

[essex canary 505]

4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Stop digging yourself in a hole. 

THIS IS 115 CHARGES. 

Just one of those charges involves paying a senior non domiciled employee a huge amount without the operation of PAYE. That charge alone is enough to warrant relegation and will undoubtedly have aroused the interest of HMRC who may wish to prosecute which means the CPS will be involved.  Now add another 114 charges to that!

One of those is the over valuation of advertising rights. The Premier League have to prove that Manchester City were paid too much for advertising. To do that you need to take apart the accounts of a multi national corporation and tackle their lawyers and accountants. 

Can you even begin to comprehend the enormity of it? If found guilty on all counts they could be looking at relegation to the National League. But I'll tell you what, let's do it next week and hope they don't appeal...... 

The charge against Forest was quite simply that they broke the rules by delaying the transfer of Johnson by 2 months to drive the price up by £10m. They didn't deny the charge, they just thought they had behaved reasonably. That was it, and not surprisingly it didn't take long.

What you're doing is comparing War and Peace to a nursery rhyme. 

Sainty is a bog standard football writer. He knows **** all about legal or financial matters. 

I'm sorry, but if this was a legal fraud trial it would be the most complex in UK history. And you're relying on a third rate football reporter who probably doesn't know his 9 x table. 

So if Manchester City are found guilty 5 years later what happens re the funds they embezzled in the intervening period? Not much presumably since the footballers who played for them during that period could hardly be said to be complicit.

Place that in the context of the Post Office case though and you get the imprisonment and suicide of innocent people and incompetent managers living off ill gotten gains. 

How does the legal profession deliver swift and efficient justice?

[The Raptor 1,231]

These man city charges. Does it it mean there's a possibility of their results being erased? We need that 3-2 win!

[Icecream Snow 762]

This is how much has been pumped into Portsmouth, who are top of League One.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68673644

Portsmouth's yearly accounts reveal a £3m loss for the year ending in June 2023.

Now into the seventh year of Michael Eisner's ownership, the American businessman has pumped £35m into the club, the accounts also show.

Michael Eisner's commitment to the club cannot be questioned with an average investment of £5m a year since he took over.

[essex canary 505]

2 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

This is how much has been pumped into Portsmouth, who are top of League One.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68673644

Portsmouth's yearly accounts reveal a £3m loss for the year ending in June 2023.

Now into the seventh year of Michael Eisner's ownership, the American businessman has pumped £35m into the club, the accounts also show.

Michael Eisner's commitment to the club cannot be questioned with an average investment of £5m a year since he took over.

This is what happens at many Championship Clubs unlike NCFC where the fans put it in then get abused by the majority owners who don't.

[TIL 1010 4,789]

49 minutes ago, essex canary said:

This is what happens at many Championship Clubs unlike NCFC where the fans put it in then get abused by the majority owners who don't.

For those who were foolish enough to think Toodle Pip was the end normal service has been resumed.

[essex canary 505]

38 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

For those who were foolish enough to think Toodle Pip was the end normal service has been resumed.

Did you have a poll?

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

13 hours ago, essex canary said:

So if Manchester City are found guilty 5 years later what happens re the funds they embezzled in the intervening period? Not much presumably since the footballers who played for them during that period could hardly be said to be complicit.

Place that in the context of the Post Office case though and you get the imprisonment and suicide of innocent people and incompetent managers living off ill gotten gains. 

How does the legal profession deliver swift and efficient justice?

What on earth has the Post Office got to do with Manchester City? 

What embezzled funds? No one has been accused of stealing (apart from not paying tax). 

Apart from failing to deduct tax from a manager's salary the main charge is that the club's sponsors/advertisers paid hugely inflated amounts to Manchester City for advertising. I'm afraid I don't know the figures but to illustrate the point lets say that Liverpool get £100m from their shirt sponsor. Manchester City got £500m but it was paid by a Saudi company connected to City's owners. It may seem simple to you to claim they have paid way too much but they will argue that it is a long term project designed to eventually make them the number one airline in the world. I'm sure your view is they're lying but you have to demonstrate that. That is far from easy and the burden of proof will be very high because the stakes are high. Simply saying it's obvious just isn't good enough. 

You are looking for swift and efficient justice. UEFA tried Manchester City swiftly and inefficiently. They lost and they lost because the information they used was obtained illegally by a computer hacker and was eventually deemed inadmissible. 

This time it needs to be done properly. Bear in mind that Manchester City will almost certainly appeal to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) and may be successful because the documents being used against them were stolen from Manchester City. I would be very surprised if the complete process was finished in another 3 years. 

The Premier League are dealing with a group of people who take huge exception to being told what to do. They've spent their whole lives doing as they please and getting away with it. They have a bottomless pot of money to use in arguing that they can do what they want and unlike you they don't care about the rules. They think they can buy everything and usually they do. 

Finally, you think only Everton and Forest have been punished for FFP. That's not strictly true. Leicester were relegated because FFP stopped them for buying a keeper to replace Schmeichel and I'm sure others have suffered in a similar way because they followed the rules. 

 

Edited March 30 by dylanisabaddog

[essex canary 505]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

What on earth has the Post Office got to do with Manchester City? 

What embezzled funds? No one has been accused of stealing (apart from not paying tax). 

Apart from failing to deduct tax from a manager's salary the main charge is that the club's sponsors/advertisers paid hugely inflated amounts to Manchester City for advertising. I'm afraid I don't know the figures but to illustrate the point lets say that Liverpool get £100m from their shirt sponsor. Manchester City got £500m but it was paid by a Saudi company connected to City's owners. It may seem simple to you to claim they have paid way too much but they will argue that it is a long term project designed to eventually make them the number one airline in the world. I'm sure your view is they're lying but you have to demonstrate that. That is far from easy and the burden of proof will be very high because the stakes are high. Simply saying it's obvious just isn't good enough. 

You are looking for swift and efficient justice. UEFA tried Manchester City swiftly and inefficiently. They lost and they lost because the information they used was obtained illegally by a computer hacker and was eventually deemed inadmissible. 

This time it needs to be done properly. Bear in mind that Manchester City will almost certainly appeal to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) and may be successful because the documents being used against them were stolen from Manchester City. I would be very surprised if the complete process was finished in another 3 years. 

The Premier League are dealing with a group of people who take huge exception to being told what to do. They've spent their whole lives doing as they please and getting away with it. They have a bottomless pot of money to use in arguing that they can do what they want and unlike you they don't care about the rules. They think they can buy everything and usually they do. 

Finally, you think only Everton and Forest have been punished for FFP. That's not strictly true. Leicester were relegated because FFP stopped them for buying a keeper to replace Schmeichel and I'm sure others have suffered in a similar way because they followed the rules. 

 

Your penultimate paragraph is absolutely true and reflects THE wider problem in public life evolving from the arrogant establishment. Are you saying the Premier League itself isn't guilty in its attitudes towards the rest of football?

The embezzlement comes in the sense that say Manchester City end up relegated to the National League in 2028 for offences committed in 2020 they have effectively lived off unentitled earnings for 8 years.

 

Edited March 30 by essex canary

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

45 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Your penultimate paragraph is absolutely true and reflects THE wider problem in public life evolving from the arrogant establishment. Are you saying the Premier League itself isn't guilty in its attitudes towards the rest of football?

The embezzlement comes in the sense that say Manchester City end up relegated to the National League in 2028 for offences committed in 2020 they have effectively lived off unentitled earnings for 8 years.

 

I wouldn't describe the owners of Manchester City as members of the establishment!

Manchester City and its owners are innocent until proven guilty. I know you've found them guilty but the Premier League is still a long way from completing its review. 

Sometimes life doesn't seem fair. Just accept it and live with it.