The case for the defence

[Petriix 2,847]

In Webber's 'final' 11 games (up to and including Cardiff) we conceded two or more goals nine times. In the 12 games since Knapper came in we've conceded two or more goals just twice. 

It's not exactly pleasing on the eye, but we've gone from being the fourth worst team in the league to the fourth best when looking at those periods in isolation. (Ok, a little generous with us playing one more game as of this morning, but nicely symmetrical)... 

(there was one cup game in each run obviously not included in the league table)

People are clamouring for change but have possibly missed that we've already started doing something significantly different. Some probably feel we've been too negative but it's clearly more successful than our previously very open approach. While I think it's fair to criticise some of the tactical choices and team selections, there is a large amount of credit due for turning things around. 

I'm fairly hopeful that it's not the medium to long term plan to be as defensive as we've become. I joked recently about the low block being the optimal strategy in modern football, but there's a modicum of truth to the idea that any successful footballing philosophy must be underpinned by a solid defensive structure. Maybe we're just seeing the groundwork from which we will add a bit more attacking flair as time goes on?

[Mason 47 1,391]

We're definitely less partial to getting completely overrun, and that was paramount given we were leaking goals like relegation fodder. As you say, credit where due for that.

I think the remaining concern is the affect on our better assets this switch has had. In the first set of games above, Sara had 7 g/a contributions and in the second only 3 assists- one of which was the classic anti-stat situation where he prodded to Hwang who smacked it in from 30 yards. Is there now an argument that- if we aren't dropping the Barnes role any time soon- would we potentially be better off without Sara trying to be a water-carrier?

In the same vein, it perhaps doesn't matter as we've maintained our scoring rate regardless. The frustration comes from feeling like this group is capable of more I think.

[hogesar 9,711]

I think that's fair Petrixx and it's worth noting just how absolutely terrible our defensive record was. We were at one point the worst in the entire division. That's not easy to change especially when he's not had signings yet to adjust.

We obviously want to get on the ball but we are a bit more risk averse. 

Good, we arent good enough to dominate good teams away from home with possession. And inevitably when we did that earlier in the season we would get destroyed on the counter simply by a Sara or McLean playing an unnecessarily risky inside pass when the team was in transition and out of defensive shape.

[Indy 3,310]

Indeed Petriix but it must be noted that we now score less too, but the results on the pitch haven’t significantly improved! We are still mid table and lose a significant amount of games playing a very negative style.

Of course having a solid defence is a must and something in reality we’ve lacked for a number of seasons, but when you look at our attacking & midfield players they’re all suited to good possession football, Nunez, Sara, Rowe, Sainz & Sargent, I do question what Barnes actually brings to the team at present, a little bit of fight but I do wonder if we drop Barnes and get in a decent holding midfielder to sit in front of the defence if that would allow Sara to get forwards and create more?

No complaints for winning last night just watched the game as was out yesterday and it was a hard earned good three points. A tad fortunate and Gunn was outstanding but that’s a good result considering.

[Petriix 2,847]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

but the results on the pitch haven’t significantly improved!

 

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

we've gone from being the fourth worst team in the league to the fourth best

 

[Petriix 2,847]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I do question what Barnes actually brings to the team at present, a little bit of fight but I do wonder if we drop Barnes and get in a decent holding midfielder to sit in front of the defence if that would allow Sara to get forwards and create more?

Yes, this is my main gripe now that other issues have been addressed. Although I thought Barnes improved in the second half last night. I do want to see Sara tried at 10.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

I was thinking of starting a thread along similar lines, but you've beaten me to it. I think that the thing that's changed the most in the last couple of months is that we're actually defending our box a lot better. If you look at last night's game and the away game at West Brom in particular, the opposition had a lot more posession than us and the ball was in and around our box a lot. However, we've just been more organised, more resolute and more prepared to fight for headers and throw bodies in front of shots than we were earlier in the season. Duffy has been very good in this regard and of course it helps having Angus playing so well in goal. 

[mrdi 373]

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

In Webber's 'final' 11 games (up to and including Cardiff) we conceded two or more goals nine times. In the 12 games since Knapper came in we've conceded two or more goals just twice. 

It's not exactly pleasing on the eye, but we've gone from being the fourth worst team in the league to the fourth best when looking at those periods in isolation. (Ok, a little generous with us playing one more game as of this morning, but nicely symmetrical)... 

(there was one cup game in each run obviously not included in the league table)

People are clamouring for change but have possibly missed that we've already started doing something significantly different. Some probably feel we've been too negative but it's clearly more successful than our previously very open approach. While I think it's fair to criticise some of the tactical choices and team selections, there is a large amount of credit due for turning things around. 

I'm fairly hopeful that it's not the medium to long term plan to be as defensive as we've become. I joked recently about the low block being the optimal strategy in modern football, but there's a modicum of truth to the idea that any successful footballing philosophy must be underpinned by a solid defensive structure. Maybe we're just seeing the groundwork from which we will add a bit more attacking flair as time goes on?

Very interesting reading, thanks for digging these stats out and highlighting them. Given the mood around the place lately, I have to admit these stats were slightly surprising. 

The process is necessary, the means far from pretty but the rewards are clearly evident here. 

What a strange season. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

I think finally starting Nunez regularly has helped massively. He does a lot of the stuff that goes unnoticed far better than McLean when he was partnering Sara in the middle.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

McLean is a far better centre half than he is no.6, which has been a key change. Gunn being fit has helped. Duffy has improved as the season has gone on too. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,794]

No coincidence that this has come about since the biggest culprit of being overrun and ran through in midfield was taken out of it and moved into defence

Even last night ,when he moved back into midfield after Gibson came on there were numerous times where he just stood off the opposition ,uncontested and allowed them to dance past him.

There's a decision to be made in a week or 2 for Wagner when Hanley comes back as he is no longer either one of our best 2 central defenders or one of our 2 best central midfielders

[Robert N. LiM 4,456]

Such an odd season. We're solidly mid-table with a (remote) chance of making the play-offs, but it really doesn't feel like it. I guess it's partly a result of only having drawn 5 games: there have been a lot of defeats to reinforce the idea that we're pretty dreadful, but conversely we've done a decent job of getting wins against the bottom-half teams, so we're in a better position overall than it feels, if that makes sense.

Interesting analysis from @Petriix: and good to see that we have tightened up (even though it still doesn't really feel like it). I know I shouldn't even dream of us signing one, let alone expect it, but I really feel a decent defensive midfielder could transform this side. I'm in the minority who likes Sara playing deep, to get him on the ball as soon as possible, but having someone alongside him who can do the defensive stuff would just liberate him so much. I'd be moving Nunez into the 10, personally.