Hounding Delia is unspeakably classless

[nutty nigel 7,537]

6 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Point 1 , they still still OWN the asset, its cost them £11 million but they not £11 million down like you've claimed,  not sure how you're not understanding that.

Point 2, I would have lost £20 million worth of the current value of the asset,  I wouldn't be down (or up depending on the purchase price) in physical money until I'd sold the property in its full, have they done this yet with NCFC? Have they no way of recouping that £11 million you seem to think they've merrily chucked down the drain? 

Posting your point of view and then imagining my point of view is simply arguing with yourself. 

My point of view is quite simply this...

They are 11m out of pocket. It remains to be seen how much they get back. To say they've made money is disingenuous. Especially considering the shareholding they've willingly lost for nothing.

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Posting your point of view and then imagining my point of view is simply arguing with yourself. 

My point of view is quite simply this...

They are 11m out of pocket. It remains to be seen how much they get back. To say they've made money is disingenuous. Especially considering the shareholding they've willingly lost for nothing.

I've already asked you once so I'll ask again who is saying they have made money? I can't find any evidence of that on here? 

They are simply not £11 million out of pocket until the day the club is out of their hands and they've recouped nothing.

You would be correct to state they've SPENT £11million, very important to understand the difference between spending and being out of pocket, imo.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

11 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I've already asked you once so I'll ask again who is saying they have made money? I can't find any evidence of that on here? 

They are simply not £11 million out of pocket until the day the club is out of their hands and they've recouped nothing.

You would be correct to state they've SPENT £11million, very important to understand the difference between spending and being out of pocket, imo.

Thanks. We're nearly on the same page. Happy to revise "out of pocket" with "spent".

What would you have them do with their already reduced asset?

BTW There's nothing to say they have made money. The disingenuous post said 'she' had.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by nutty nigel

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Thanks. We're nearly on the same page. Happy to revise "out of pocket" with "spent".

What would you have them do with their already reduced asset?

BTW There's nothing to say they have made money. The disingenuous post said 'she' had.

 

We're getting there Nigel 🤣.

As for their reduced %, again I didn't claim they hadn't lost out on any potential future money.

Basically when it's all done and dusted it'll be interesting to see if they overall make or lose from their ownership of the club, again I'm not one who has issue with them making money it's business after all.

Now my man, I need to get back to being bemused by that baffling starting line up today.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Thanks. We're nearly on the same page. Happy to revise "out of pocket" with "spent".

What would you have them do with their already reduced asset?

BTW There's nothing to say they have made money. The disingenuous post said 'she' had.

 

The club as an asset is said to the worth between £90-140 million. In 2022 we had a turnover of £133 million. It’s safe to say their asset has appreciated significantly over their time in charge, it has certainly grown at a rate that has far outstripped inflation. Should they decide to sell their 2/3rds of the club they will be very well compensated for their investment. I hope they do soon and get a chance to enjoy retirement and ride off into the sunset with fairly good memories of their ownership. 

[baldy09 158]

O come LETS BE HAVIN YOU - you 20%. whingers

[essex canary 496]

49 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Posting your point of view and then imagining my point of view is simply arguing with yourself. 

My point of view is quite simply this...

They are 11m out of pocket. It remains to be seen how much they get back. To say they've made money is disingenuous. Especially considering the shareholding they've willingly lost for nothing.

If Delia was a collector of vintage whisky, your expectation would be that she would drop the bottle.

Therein lies the problem. She is supposed to preserve it.

[hogesar 9,676]

14 hours ago, king canary said:

So out of interest I've just stuck the word Hag into the search function on here. Lots of mentions of Eric Ten Hag, can't see anyone calling Delia one though.

Equally the last mention I can of anyone referring to her as an old cow is from 2017.

I would suggest the search doesn't work great with individual words (it never has) - because the two words I used were very specific because they'd both been used since the AGM, on here.

[vos 155]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

The club as an asset is said to the worth between £90-140 million. In 2022 we had a turnover of £133 million. It’s safe to say their asset has appreciated significantly over their time in charge, it has certainly grown at a rate that has far outstripped inflation. Should they decide to sell their 2/3rds of the club they will be very well compensated for their investment. I hope they do soon and get a chance to enjoy retirement and ride off into the sunset with fairly good memories of their ownership. 

In no way is the Club worth in excess of £100 million. Unlike normal business, turnover in football is fairly irrelevant, because as quick as it comes in it all rapidly goes out in player expenditure. Our Club is a classic example whereby some considerable sums have been received from broadcasting rights over recent years but despite this we lost £18m in 2022 and £27 million in 2023. We currently have a capital deficit of £20 million but this might be cleared by the sale of two of our players. In this scenario there are no great signs of anyone coming through the Academy. We are not alone because a quick glance shows Aston Villa have a deficit of £22 million, Crystal Palace £36million and Wolves £99million.

Ipswich are an interesting case. Aviva wrote off £20million when Evans took over. In turn Evans companies wrote off around £100  million when he left in 2021. Of course the current US Pension Group who owns them could make a bomb if they get out at the right time. Most of the money going in to football is from large companies who are introducing other people's money. Delia made a comment at the AGM that no local people have put much money in to the Club. Can you blame them - they have more sense. If Hook thinks things are so rosy perhaps he can get his wallet out.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

4 minutes ago, vos said:

In no way is the Club worth in excess of £100 million. Unlike normal business, turnover in football is fairly irrelevant, because as quick as it comes in it all rapidly goes out in player expenditure. Our Club is a classic example whereby some considerable sums have been received from broadcasting rights over recent years but despite this we lost £18m in 2022 and £27 million in 2023. We currently have a capital deficit of £20 million but this might be cleared by the sale of two of our players. In this scenario there are no great signs of anyone coming through the Academy. We are not alone because a quick glance shows Aston Villa have a deficit of £22 million, Crystal Palace £36million and Wolves £99million.

Ipswich are an interesting case. Aviva wrote off £20million when Evans took over. In turn Evans companies wrote off around £100  million when he left in 2021. Of course the current US Pension Group who owns them could make a bomb if they get out at the right time. Most of the money going in to football is from large companies who are introducing other people's money. Delia made a comment at the AGM that no local people have put much money in to the Club. Can you blame them - they have more sense. If Hook thinks things are so rosy perhaps he can get his wallet out.

The clubs tangible assests such as the ground, training ground and contracted players have an estimated value of £90 million. It’s not out of the realms of possibility it’s valued at over £100 million given other clubs of similar size have sold for similar figures in recent years. 

[vos 155]

16 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

The clubs tangible assests such as the ground, training ground and contracted players have an estimated value of £90 million. It’s not out of the realms of possibility it’s valued at over £100 million given other clubs of similar size have sold for similar figures in recent years. 

I doubt if we would ever reach the stage of selling the ground. Some sort of saviour would appear before then. But if it did come to that one wonders what it would be worth. For example a developer who wanted to turn it in to flats would probably have to spend more on clearing the site than the residual site is worth. Would not be a great surprise if the City Council put a bit of money in for political reasons. After all they are good at spending other people's money. Whingeingly yours.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

12 minutes ago, vos said:

I doubt if we would ever reach the stage of selling the ground. Some sort of saviour would appear before then. But if it did come to that one wonders what it would be worth. For example a developer who wanted to turn it in to flats would probably have to spend more on clearing the site than the residual site is worth. Would not be a great surprise if the City Council put a bit of money in for political reasons. After all they are good at spending other people's money. Whingeingly yours.

Only things that are for sure in life are death and taxes after all. 

[Corbs1 89]

On 02/12/2023 at 12:56, Pugin said:

It's deplorable and crass

Absolutely, thanks - no need to read even one response, any more than I need to listen to IDF spokesperson on how they are saving lives. 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

2 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

The club as an asset is said to the worth between £90-140 million. In 2022 we had a turnover of £133 million. It’s safe to say their asset has appreciated significantly over their time in charge, it has certainly grown at a rate that has far outstripped inflation. Should they decide to sell their 2/3rds of the club they will be very well compensated for their investment. I hope they do soon and get a chance to enjoy retirement and ride off into the sunset with fairly good memories of their ownership. 

I don't think that's even true buddy. I think they've lost a third of their shareholding for nothing and now own 40%.

Maybe the FPAs are busy scribbling away to prove they've had that back too.

Good win this afternoon. 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Wrong thread

Edited December 3, 2023 by nutty nigel

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

4 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't think that's even true buddy. I think they've lost a third of their shareholding for nothing and now own 40%.

Maybe the FPAs are busy scribbling away to prove they've had that back too.

Good win this afternoon. 

Just curious how they have lost a third of their holding? There total share of the total of the club has been reduced due to the new share allocation granted but they are still the majority shareholders. 
 

The value of the assets is very fluid especially with contracted players. The value of the ground, land and training centre is going to be a pretty consistent price however. 
 

I mean a win is a win for sure. Not sure it will be remembered as an all time classic though. I like Wagner as a whole I think he seems a good bloke and I do hope he can prove people like me who have some doubts over his ability to manage the side wrong. 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

42 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Just curious how they have lost a third of their holding? There total share of the total of the club has been reduced due to the new share allocation granted but they are still the majority shareholders. 
 

 

So, to my thinking if our club is worth 100m (I'm not saying it is) and they owned 60% of the shares the value of that shareholding is 60m. If they create more shares to get capital into our club, and it reduces their holding to 40%, then the same amount of shares are now worth 40m. Which is a third less.

Of course the hope is that the capital that comes into the club increases it's value, and it could well do in the long term, but that is looking very much like something someone else will benefit from. 

Because they get so much stick on here a small part of me wishes that they'd sell the 40% tomorrow for it's true value but most of me realises that it's not something they're likely to do because their exit will happen with the best interests of our club at heart.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

23 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So, to my thinking if our club is worth 100m (I'm not saying it is) and they owned 60% of the shares the value of that shareholding is 60m. If they create more shares to get capital into our club, and it reduces their holding to 40%, then the same amount of shares are now worth 40m. Which is a third less.

Of course the hope is that the capital that comes into the club increases it's value, and it could well do in the long term, but that is looking very much like something someone else will benefit from. 

Because they get so much stick on here a small part of me wishes that they'd sell the 40% tomorrow for it's true value but most of me realises that it's not something they're likely to do because their exit will happen with the best interests of our club at heart.

Yeah I think that makes sense with what you say. I think the time to of sold would have been 18 months ago when Attanasio bought it. I don’t think anyone would have had a bad word to say about them had they done that. 
 

The Norwich way as they call it always seems to be the most difficult way of late and everything just seems so protracted of late. Things that at other clubs would be cut and dry drag on for months or years. 

[komakino 272]

15 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Because they get so much stick on here a small part of me wishes that they'd sell the 40% tomorrow for it's true value but most of me realises that it's not something they're likely to do because their exit will happen with the best interests of our club at heart.

The piece I've highlighted is a moot point as any exit will be on their terms. 

My view is that for the best interest of the club would have been for them to sell all their shares as they cannot take the club any further. The protracted and somewhat bizarre takeover process damages the club in my view,  but for reasons only known to Delia and MWJ, it is happening the way it is. I suspect once you have power, it is difficult to let go. 

It's messy and I don't like it. 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

1 hour ago, komakino said:

The piece I've highlighted is a moot point as any exit will be on their terms. 

My view is that for the best interest of the club would have been for them to sell all their shares as they cannot take the club any further. The protracted and somewhat bizarre takeover process damages the club in my view,  but for reasons only known to Delia and MWJ, it is happening the way it is. I suspect once you have power, it is difficult to let go. 

It's messy and I don't like it. 

That's interesting. How would you like them to exit?

I doubt you were at the AGM but a shareholder wasted a question by quoting a social media post supposedly from TNC. Both Delia and Michael immediately called it as "a lie". That got me thinking about you...

[komakino 272]

On 04/12/2023 at 14:13, nutty nigel said:

That's interesting. How would you like them to exit?

I doubt you were at the AGM but a shareholder wasted a question by quoting a social media post supposedly from TNC. Both Delia and Michael immediately called it as "a lie". That got me thinking about you...

I would like them to exit by selling completely, not dragging it out for years. The current situation is unusual and unnecessary, that's my personal opinion.