Anyone Caught Knapping?

[Segura 84]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

At least he never grabbed a mic on the pitch to rouse up the fans at home or gave a canned up interview at Portman Road. Two Semi Finals in the cup, 3 top 5 finishes in the top flight and a run in Europe wasn’t such a bad period all round. 

Big Bob was a bull****ter at times no doubt but our current custodians have had it easy in comparison. 
 

Don't get me wrong Chase deserves some credit, he oversaw our most successful period and the only time in my supporting lifetime where NCFC could have been described as 'fashionable'.

However, in the same era Cov, Luton, Oxford and Wimbledon all won major honours. Even Oldham Athletic reached cup finals. It was simply much easier for smaller clubs to be successful than it is now.

So let's not pretend Chase was some footballing messiah performing out of the ordinary - similar sized clubs were achieving similar feats at the same time.

The Chase v Delia debate makes for an interesting discussion, but ultimately comparing anything between different eras is futile - as much as I may miss them, the 1980s/early 90s are gone and are never coming back.

[NewNestCarrow 191]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Exactly, there was time under South’s tenure to get it done but it never happened. 

Here's some history:

Oct 1984: Main Stand burned down. At this point Chase was a Director (& largest shareholder) but Arthur South was Chairman

Sept 1985: Tender for replacement stand accepted from R G Carter. The new stand was to cost almost exactly what the insurance payout had been.

Sept 1985: Jimmy Jones resigned from the Board, protesting that selection of Carter had been done without "proper financial prudence". [There may also have been a personal relationship between Arthur South & 'widow' Carter at the time]

Nov 1985: Contract for new stand signed with Carter.  Jones then called for an EGM and, as a result, the entire Board resigned.

Dec 1985: A new Board was proposed. This excluded South but included Chase, Jimmy Jones & Roger Munby.

Jan 1986: The new Board was voted in by shareholders. The Board voted Chase as Chairman.

[Details sourced from 'The Archive', by James Woodrow. Every serious City fan should own a copy]

Edited October 12, 2023 by NewNestCarrow
...

[essex canary 496]

1 hour ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Here are a few reasons why I rank D&M far above the Fat Controller:

Outside their initial investment D&M have given plenty of cash to NCFC (via donations & conversion of loans). Chase never put another penny into the club.

D&M have never taken a salary from NCFC. Chase paid himself for "Technical Services", as well drawing an emolument as Director.

D&M's exit strategy - as far as we can tell - is based around them turning down the opportunity to massively enrich themselves. In his last year as Director (1996) Chase pocketed around 9% of the club's entire payroll [£83,670 emolument plus  £137k "compensation for loss of office"] I am going to take a fair guess that the price he extracted from Watling for those 47,000-odd shares was higher than what he initially paid.

 

Very interesting and a case well made.

Is it the case though that D&M will simply pass on their returns - and those of other shareholders -  onto Attanasio and his team? In addition the situation has only arisen because of giving McNally and the Webbers too much of a free hand in return for substantial salaries and limited delivery.

Much as they wanted to differentiate themselves from Chase, the rules of Economics can't be circumvented.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Ffs this again and the usual suspects make things up.

Chase wasn’t majority shareholder or owner. He was chairman. And was enabled by the weakest board in our clubs history. Everything that happened the board were aware of and signed off. Even when he appointed himself CE and paid himself a salary. He tried buying more shares when it was rumoured we would be floated on the stock market. He even wrote to me to find if I was still alive in his attempt to hoover up a lot of the minority shareholdings.
 

[Mark .Y. 352]

49 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Ffs this again and the usual suspects make things up.

Chase wasn’t majority shareholder or owner. He was chairman. And was enabled by the weakest board in our clubs history. Everything that happened the board were aware of and signed off. Even when he appointed himself CE and paid himself a salary. He tried buying more shares when it was rumoured we would be floated on the stock market. He even wrote to me to find if I was still alive in his attempt to hoover up a lot of the minority shareholdings.
 

Were you ?  🙂

 

[nutty nigel 7,537]

10 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Were you ?  🙂

 

I didn't tell him

[Mark .Y. 352]

So he couldn't be sure............. wise move methinks  😉

 

[NewNestCarrow 191]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Ffs this again and the usual suspects make things up.

Chase wasn’t majority shareholder or owner. He was chairman. And was enabled by the weakest board in our clubs history. Everything that happened the board were aware of and signed off. Even when he appointed himself CE and paid himself a salary. He tried buying more shares when it was rumoured we would be floated on the stock market. He even wrote to me to find if I was still alive in his attempt to hoover up a lot of the minority shareholdings.
 

Between 1992 & 1994 Chase hoovered up around 10% of the fully allotted shares, presumably by approaching individuals like yourself (and offering a pittance!)

[chicken 2,627]

15 hours ago, essex canary said:

I guess he never gave a Times interview claiming to feel sorry for the fans then did nothing about it for 7 years either?

No, he just gave a press conference where he lied through his teeth and gave us that rather fanous picture of a very p!ssed off Sutton.

[Big Vince 318]

11 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Between 1992 & 1994 Chase hoovered up around 10% of the fully allotted shares, presumably by approaching individuals like yourself (and offering a pittance!)

Attanasio has been hoovering up shares for a pittance without offering to buy out other shareholders as per the Code.

[Big Vince 318]

19 hours ago, hogesar said:

Thanks for the above. Sounds like some inconvenient facts that might get ignored on this thread though 🙂

There are other inconvenient facts being ignored. Chase was not a PR disaster inside the club. Former players and staff have gone on record as saying they liked him because he was hard but fair, including the boy Sutton. It was only numpty supporters who had a problem with Chase.

Secondly, the land that Chase bought around the stadium has enabled the current regime to build flats and the existing South Stand and lay out a new parking area.

Thirdly, Chase bought the land at Colney and built the original training centre which the current regime has been using to make their self-funding model work.

Fourthly, Chase built the two infills either side of the City Stand and installed undersoil heating.

Fifthly, as well as balancing the books, Chase bought very many good players with the money from those that were sold. Such as Gunn, Bowen, Crook, Townsend, Fleck, Linighan, Newsome, Ekoku, Newman. A little known fact is that Dave Williams was a fantastic midfielder in the short playing career he had with us before going on to be one of our best ever coaches.

Along with his unprecedented success on the pitch, Chase was without doubt the most significant figure in the entire history of Norwich City Football Club.

[BigFish 1,988]

28 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Attanasio has been hoovering up shares for a pittance without offering to buy out other shareholders as per the Code.

Shareholders had a vote, they had a choice and they voted in favour of this approach.

[Big Vince 318]

5 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Shareholders had a vote, they had a choice and they voted in favour of this approach.

How was the vote carried out and did the club provide shareholders with all the information they wanted to know before voting and was the result of the vote even disclosed?

To me, it all seemed a bit like a Third World dictatorship where the dictator says he won the election but he's not going to give you the figures.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Big Vince

[BigFish 1,988]

1 minute ago, Big Vince said:

How was the vote carried out and did the club provide shareholders with all the information they wanted to know before voting and was the result of the vote even disclosed?

Simply put, the vote was carried out in accordance with the Takeover Code and all the necessary information provided.

[Big Vince 318]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Simply put, the vote was carried out in accordance with the Takeover Code and all the necessary information provided.

Yes, precisely. It was carried out according to the law and the law is an ****.

This whole process was full of dark corners where no light was shone, much to the convenience of a small minority.

[BigFish 1,988]

3 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Yes, precisely. It was carried out according to the law and the law is an ****.

This whole process was full of dark corners where no light was shone, much to the convenience of a small minority.

You may well think that, but I suspect you know very little if anything at all about the law let alone not being qualified in commercial law. At least you admit that your earlier post stating that it didn't comply with the code was incorrect. Pretty much like this one.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

49 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Attanasio has been hoovering up shares for a pittance without offering to buy out other shareholders as per the Code.

I keep him guessing too.

As for Chase being the most significant person in our history…

We’re a football club. One of the many great players who played for us would be far more significant than any ‘suit’. 

[Big Vince 318]

4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

You may well think that, but I suspect you know very little if anything at all about the law let alone not being qualified in commercial law. At least you admit that your earlier post stating that it didn't comply with the code was incorrect. Pretty much like this one.

If Attanasio wanted to act according to the spirit of the law he could have offered to buy out the minority shareholders as per the 30% provision that is stated in law. But he opted instead to find a loophole in the law called the Waiver. And so shareholders were asked to vote on the loophole not whether they wanted to sell their holdings.

[Big Vince 318]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

I keep him guessing too.

As for Chase being the most significant person in our history…

We’re a football club. One of the many great players who played for us would be far more significant than any ‘suit’. 

So you are saying Martin Peters then?

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Just now, Big Vince said:

So you are saying Martin Peters then?

For me he would be. But for older fans there were many great players and many still class the 59ers as our greatest ever team.

At SOTB Ken Nethercott was voted our greatest ever player.

[Big Vince 318]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

For me he would be. But for older fans there were many great players and many still class the 59ers as our greatest ever team.

At SOTB Ken Nethercott was voted our greatest ever player.

Okay, great stuff. No arguments there.

So was Charlie Billington the worst ever player?

[BigFish 1,988]

12 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

If Attanasio wanted to act according to the spirit of the law he could have offered to buy out the minority shareholders as per the 30% provision that is stated in law. But he opted instead to find a loophole in the law called the Waiver. And so shareholders were asked to vote on the loophole not whether they wanted to sell their holdings.

 

Back to your lack of legal qualifications or understanding with which you would understand there is no such thing as the spirit of the law. The shareholders voted in favour of the waiver as is fully compliant to the Takeover code and remain free to sell their shares should they wish and if they can find a willing buyer. So what you are talking about is not a loophole in the law, it is, in fact the law.

Edited October 13, 2023 by BigFish

[nutty nigel 7,537]

1 minute ago, Big Vince said:

Okay, great stuff. No arguments there.

So was Charlie Billington the worst ever player?

Bob Heffer told me when first team played reserves he’d nutmeg him and be 20 yards up the pitch before he heard those old clodhoppers clunk together. So probably he was.

[BigFish 1,988]

23 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Let’s not forget two new stands were built during Bobs time in charge though for more balance. 

Both of which are pretty much white elephants these days. A lot of clubs developed completely new stadiums fit for the modern game while we are stuck with the toytown City Stand.

[Big Vince 318]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

Back to your lack of legal qualifications or understanding which which you would understand there is no such thing as the spirit of the law. The shareholders voted in favour of the waiver as is fully compliant to the Takeover code and remain free to sell their shares should they wish and if they can find a willing buyer. So what you are taliking about is not a loophole in the law, it is, in fact the law.

Attanasio and his high powered and expensive legal team used the law in such a way so they didn't have to make an offer to buy out the minority shareholders. They didn't have to do it. They had other legal options. One of these was to simply buy out the minority shareholders as soon as 30% was reached. Lawyers are there to use the law to the best interests of their clients. That is why they get such inflated fees.

[Big Vince 318]

8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Both of which are pretty much white elephants these days. A lot of clubs developed completely new stadiums fit for the modern game while we are stuck with the toytown City Stand.

Nonsense. At the time when it was built it was considered one of the most modern stands in the country as it was completely without turnstiles. You cannot go around judging the past by present day standards. Of course present day cars are better than in the 1920s.

[Midlands Yellow 3,994]

37 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Both of which are pretty much white elephants these days. A lot of clubs developed completely new stadiums fit for the modern game while we are stuck with the toytown City Stand.

Yes we are, any idea why it’s not been replaced under our present custodians stay? 

[BigFish 1,988]

35 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Attanasio and his high powered and expensive legal team used the law in such a way so they didn't have to make an offer to buy out the minority shareholders. They didn't have to do it. They had other legal options. One of these was to simply buy out the minority shareholders as soon as 30% was reached. Lawyers are there to use the law to the best interests of their clients. That is why they get such inflated fees.

The minority shareholders voted for this. That's democracy.

[BigFish 1,988]

29 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Nonsense. At the time when it was built it was considered one of the most modern stands in the country as it was completely without turnstiles. You cannot go around judging the past by present day standards. Of course present day cars are better than in the 1920s.

 

4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Yes we are, any idea why it’s not been replaced under our present custodians stay? 

One factor is that the site cluttered by these white elephants. It makes development more difficult and therefore much more expensive.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

1 hour ago, Big Vince said:

There are other inconvenient facts being ignored. Chase was not a PR disaster inside the club. Former players and staff have gone on record as saying they liked him because he was hard but fair, including the boy Sutton. It was only numpty supporters who had a problem with Chase.

Secondly, the land that Chase bought around the stadium has enabled the current regime to build flats and the existing South Stand and lay out a new parking area.

Thirdly, Chase bought the land at Colney and built the original training centre which the current regime has been using to make their self-funding model work.

Fourthly, Chase built the two infills either side of the City Stand and installed undersoil heating.

Fifthly, as well as balancing the books, Chase bought very many good players with the money from those that were sold. Such as Gunn, Bowen, Crook, Townsend, Fleck, Linighan, Newsome, Ekoku, Newman. A little known fact is that Dave Williams was a fantastic midfielder in the short playing career he had with us before going on to be one of our best ever coaches.

Along with his unprecedented success on the pitch, Chase was without doubt the most significant figure in the entire history of Norwich City Football Club.

I seem to remember that Chase bought the land privately, through his company and sold it to NCFC at a profit, might just be making it up though, but you will not mind as you make a lot of stuff up............