Everton sign up big Frank Lampard

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

Well thats Everton in the relegation mix then

[duke63 545]

So Everton sign a manager that the then bottom club of the EPL decided wasn't the best choice for their job. 😂

[Mengo 825]

36 minutes ago, duke63 said:

So Everton sign a manager that the then bottom club of the EPL decided wasn't the best choice for their job. 😂

Are you sure that's what the reality was Duke🤣. Somehow I have my doubts. But it was a nice freebie in Dubai for some. 

[duke63 545]

I'm pretty sure he was not first choice, yes.

[Mengo 825]

33 minutes ago, duke63 said:

I'm pretty sure he was not first choice, yes.

Maybe not. Who would you have put a bet on to have been first choice then.

[duke63 545]

I think once Dean Smith became available and interested it was never going to be Lampard.

[Mengo 825]

1 minute ago, duke63 said:

I think once Dean Smith became available and interested it was never going to be Lampard.

I think Frank said thanks but no thanks .

Just a feeling.

Dean Smith is a top man. But he had a lot to do and still has. But if anybody can save us I'm sure the SAS can. Here's hoping

[Dean Coneys boots 1,406]

49 minutes ago, Mengo said:

I think Frank said thanks but no thanks .

Just a feeling.

Dean Smith is a top man. But he had a lot to do and still has. But if anybody can save us I'm sure the SAS can. Here's hoping

Reading between the lines Frank asked what transfer kitty was available in January and then balked when the answer was none. So they switched to option B- the man who had just been sacked and was clearly not first choice. However - given that lack of kitty - a good signing nonetheless 

[Mengo 825]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Reading between the lines Frank asked what transfer kitty was available in January and then balked when the answer was none. So they switched to option B- the man who had just been sacked and was clearly not first choice. However - given that lack of kitty - a good signing nonetheless 

I think your spot on in this assumption. That's my feeling . Anyway for me it all turned out good with getting  the SAS. More good luck than a masterstroke me thinks. On the plus side SW got big Frank's autograph 🤣

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Frank was never coming here, he needs money, he's going to be one of those chequebook managers. 

Come here and make do, or be able to sign Van der Beek and Alli on day 1.

Everton won't be in the relegation mix come May. 

[cornish sam 965]

41 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Frank was never coming here, he needs money, he's going to be one of those chequebook managers. 

Come here and make do, or be able to sign Van der Beek and Alli on day 1.

Everton won't be in the relegation mix come May. 

£40m for Alli apparently!!! How the fudge can Everton afford this and not run into FFP? They've already spent something like half a billion over the last 5 years and hajrdly had a fee in that comes to mind...

 

Edit: just answers my own question, looks like they can't... I wonder what their punishment will be?

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by cornish sam

[Fuzzar 1,703]

I'm not sure Alli to Everton is going to help them much. He's not been the same player for a couple of seasons now. 

He's in the same category as Iwobi and Walcott for me - there's a reason why Arsenal them go to Everton. 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

10 hours ago, cornish sam said:

£40m for Alli apparently!!! How the fudge can Everton afford this and not run into FFP? They've already spent something like half a billion over the last 5 years and hajrdly had a fee in that comes to mind...

 

Edit: just answers my own question, looks like they can't... I wonder what their punishment will be?

 

It's a "free" transfer that "could" hit 40million, the first payment is due after 20 league games, so next season at the earliest, that's how they've got round it. 

[cornish sam 965]

39 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

It's a "free" transfer that "could" hit 40million, the first payment is due after 20 league games, so next season at the earliest, that's how they've got round it. 

I saw that, says a lot about how desperate spurs were to get him off their books! Perhaps the FPA could clarify how the potential future payments should be represented in the accounts and if this would still have a (reduced?) Impact on FFP calculations... 

(I know there was a lot of talk on this kind of thing a few weeks ago in another thread but I lost track of that discussion)

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Just now, cornish sam said:

I saw that, says a lot about how desperate spurs were to get him off their books! Perhaps the FPA could clarify how the potential future payments should be represented in the accounts and if this would still have a (reduced?) Impact on FFP calculations... 

(I know there was a lot of talk on this kind of thing a few weeks ago in another thread but I lost track of that discussion)

Spurs I'd guess were just happy to get his wage off the books. If I remember correctly Evertons first big transfer window was 3 or 4 seasons ago, so by time the first payment is due and also by the summer window that will free up a load more money for them to spend. 

[shefcanary 2,462]

3 hours ago, cornish sam said:

I saw that, says a lot about how desperate spurs were to get him off their books! Perhaps the FPA could clarify how the potential future payments should be represented in the accounts and if this would still have a (reduced?) Impact on FFP calculations... 

(I know there was a lot of talk on this kind of thing a few weeks ago in another thread but I lost track of that discussion)

Well @cornish sam you did ask.

tl:dr I don't know, much will depend on the auditors interpretation of the transfer and their reading of the intentions of both clubs. 

The long version:

It seems the fee finally payable is contingent on a number of appearances for Everton (in League, Cup, European competitions , cup and championship medals etc.) and potentially England appearances.  As each milestone in appearances is reached the fee payable at that milestone has to be recognised in the accounts.  The potential future payments on future milestones will be recorded by way of a note but will not hit the accounts in p&l terms. 

There is scope for Everton to manipulate when the final fee is recognised in the accounts, should the auditors allow "form over substance" (the legal documents govern the accounting treatment and the ultimate intention of the transfer is ignored) in their interpretation of the purchase contract.  The auditors however could insist on "substance over form" (the more usual route of ignoring the legal documents and looking through them to what both parties actually sought to achieve - the transfer of Dele Alli for £40m) and insist the full potential value of the fee is recognised immediately.  The debate on which way to recognise the purchase contract within the auditors offices would be one I would love to witness, but I'm a boring old sod. 

Let's assume the auditors take a lenient view and apply "form over substance".  A measurement will have to be taken at the time of signing of the Everton accounts each year of where Dele Alli's appearance have reached. 

As mentioned above, with more than 20 games left to play in this season it is pretty likely that he will have achieved this first milestone by the time Everton accounts are signed off.  Now the accounts for 2020 were signed off on 23 November 2020, last year's accounts have not yet been filed at Companies House, but I think you can assume they were signed off in November 2021.  So if the current year's accounts are signed off in similar time frame, as by end November 2022 Everton would only have played 15 league games in whichever division they are in, it is likely only the milestone for 20 games (thus £10M payable) will have been reached (but who knows if future milestones are every 20 games???).  

For FFP rules not to be breached, it would require some form of income over £45m (current £35m in breach from table above plus the £10m "first" realisable instalment re. transfer fee) for Everton to achieve this. 

Now I'm not sure if the table above suggesting they were already in breach assumes a certain level of EPL income but this £45m may lead to a potential renaming rights, or potentially the sale, of Goodison in lieu of of the relocation to the new ground.   This is despite the physical move still some 2 and a half years away.  It also assumes the land at Goodison is worth that much after demolition costs, which is very doubtful. 

Of course they could restrict Dele Alli to only 19 games until the accounts were signed off thus avoiding the charge in the current year's accounts. This spreading of 19 appearances over 35 to 40 matches across two seasons may be seen as a bonus for other teams battling with them for safety this year, although more likely if they have achieved safety well before the end of the season don't be surprised to see Dele Alli hardly appearing in the run in and the start of next season.

All of this will be interesting to watch to see which way the auditors go in recording the transfer in the accounts and thus the impact on the FFP regime.  As I have said many times without being privy to the documents attached to this transaction it is not going to be worth speculating on.  However if I was the audit partner responsible for signing off the Everton accounts I would be having many sleepless nights from here to November.

See how only one transaction can lead to a myriad of alternative treatments - who said accounting was boring?

[Ulfotto 644]

Everton are an absolute mess, I would ask how they managed to sign 4 players in the transfer window with no manager and no director of football following Brands departure. They are kinda an example of a having a rich owner does not translate to success. That said have too much quality to get sucked into the relegation fight. 

[cornish sam 965]

25 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Well @cornish sam you did ask.

tl:dr I don't know, much will depend on the auditors interpretation of the transfer and their reading of the intentions of both clubs. 

The long version:

It seems the fee finally payable is contingent on a number of appearances for Everton (in League, Cup, European competitions , cup and championship medals etc.) and potentially England appearances.  As each milestone in appearances is reached the fee payable at that milestone has to be recognised in the accounts.  The potential future payments on future milestones will be recorded by way of a note but will not hit the accounts in p&l terms. 

There is scope for Everton to manipulate when the final fee is recognised in the accounts, should the auditors allow "form over substance" (the legal documents govern the accounting treatment and the ultimate intention of the transfer is ignored) in their interpretation of the purchase contract.  The auditors however could insist on "substance over form" (the more usual route of ignoring the legal documents and looking through them to what both parties actually sought to achieve - the transfer of Dele Alli for £40m) and insist the full potential value of the fee is recognised immediately.  The debate on which way to recognise the purchase contract within the auditors offices would be one I would love to witness, but I'm a boring old sod. 

Let's assume the auditors take a lenient view and apply "form over substance".  A measurement will have to be taken at the time of signing of the Everton accounts each year of where Dele Alli's appearance have reached. 

As mentioned above, with more than 20 games left to play in this season it is pretty likely that he will have achieved this first milestone by the time Everton accounts are signed off.  Now the accounts for 2020 were signed off on 23 November 2020, last year's accounts have not yet been filed at Companies House, but I think you can assume they were signed off in November 2021.  So if the current year's accounts are signed off in similar time frame, as by end November 2022 Everton would only have played 15 league games in whichever division they are in, it is likely only the milestone for 20 games (thus £10M payable) will have been reached (but who knows if future milestones are every 20 games???).  

For FFP rules not to be breached, it would require some form of income over £45m (current £35m in breach from table above plus the £10m "first" realisable instalment re. transfer fee) for Everton to achieve this. 

Now I'm not sure if the table above suggesting they were already in breach assumes a certain level of EPL income but this £45m may lead to a potential renaming rights, or potentially the sale, of Goodison in lieu of of the relocation to the new ground.   This is despite the physical move still some 2 and a half years away.  It also assumes the land at Goodison is worth that much after demolition costs, which is very doubtful. 

Of course they could restrict Dele Alli to only 19 games until the accounts were signed off thus avoiding the charge in the current year's accounts. This spreading of 19 appearances over 35 to 40 matches across two seasons may be seen as a bonus for other teams battling with them for safety this year, although more likely if they have achieved safety well before the end of the season don't be surprised to see Dele Alli hardly appearing in the run in and the start of next season.

All of this will be interesting to watch to see which way the auditors go in recording the transfer in the accounts and thus the impact on the FFP regime.  As I have said many times without being privy to the documents attached to this transaction it is not going to be worth speculating on.  However if I was the audit partner responsible for signing off the Everton accounts I would be having many sleepless nights from here to November.

See how only one transaction can lead to a myriad of alternative treatments - who said accounting was boring?

Thanks Shef, that was exactly the kind of answer I was after... So it boils down to, they will probably try to fudge it so the book cost is nothing until they have cleared the current accounting period though they may not be allowed to depending on how 'nice' their auditors are.... I fully expect to hear nothing more about this then and everyone to just pretend that they haven't broken ffp.

[Capt. Pants 4,278]

7 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Everton are an absolute mess, I would ask how they managed to sign 4 players in the transfer window with no manager and no director of football following Brands departure. They are kinda an example of a having a rich owner does not translate to success. That said have too much quality to get sucked into the relegation fight. 

Perhaps not but could you see our club signing 4 players with no manager and no Dof?

Not sure how you measure success at Everton but if Lampard can get Alli performing, Richarlison back to full swing, Calvert-Lewin scoring and integrate the hugely underrated  Van De Beek I think they'll pull away from the drop zone faster than Newcastle.