Defensive midfielder

[Fuzzar 1,702]

To be fair Alex, I'd be delighted with an away point against a relegation rival. 

[Sooty57 403]

I doubt it has escaped Webber & Farke's notice that the loss of Skipp & Tettey has left a very big defensive hole, but there are two criteria that need to met:

1. A player of the right calibre has to be available at a not too ridiculous cost
2. He has to accept the move here

I hope that, with the games we have before the deadline, potential transfers aren't put off by seeing us as relegation fodder.

[Indy 3,301]

9 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Window not closed? And people are carefully ignoring that Brentford didn’t have the firepower to gain a vital 3 points against a lower table opponent today. If that was Norwich then you can guarantee the same people wouldn’t have been bigging up the clean sheet that Ajer kept - that would be ignored to suit the mantra and they’d be complaining we didn’t score against or beat a likely relegation rival. Now those *are* the games that will make or break our season - not Man City or Liverpool.

Not really, if you can gain a point away from home and three against them at home job done isn’t it?

No one thought they’d beat Arsenal in the manner they have and keeping a clean sheet at Palace or any ground at an established premiership club is good. Let’s remember we’re a long time since we actually picked up a point in the Premiership League, is it now 15 straight defeats?

None of us sensible people thought we’d get much out of the first two games, but would have liked a little more positives out of today! Will we see a reaction next week, only Leicester at home!😉

[Alex Moss 2,165]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

To be fair Alex, I'd be delighted with an away point against a relegation rival. 

That’s fair do’s, Fuzzar - must admit, I believe we’ll see a much fairer reflection of what our side can do in those games. Just got to hope Webber, Farke, and the players ignore the noise and don’t let supporters emotions get the better of them after today’s result. It could be very damaging.

[Indy 3,301]

9 minutes ago, Sooty57 said:

I doubt it has escaped Webber & Farke's notice that the loss of Skipp & Tettey has left a very big defensive hole, but there are two criteria that need to met:

1. A player of the right calibre has to be available at a not too ridiculous cost
2. He has to accept the move here

I hope that, with the games we have before the deadline, potential transfers aren't put off by seeing us as relegation fodder.

Funny Ajer could have fitted that!

Edited August 21, 2021 by Indy

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Not really, if you can gain a point away from home and three against them at home job done isn’t it?

No one thought they’d beat Arsenal in the manner they have and keeping a clean sheet at Palace or any ground at an established premiership club is good. Let’s remember we’re a long time since we actually picked up a point in the Premiership League, is it now 15 straight defeats?

None of us sensible people thought we’d get much out of the first two games, but would have liked a little more positives out of today! Will we see a reaction next week, only Leicester at home!😉

4 points against Leicester last time round, Indy - so fingers crossed buddy! 

[Indy 3,301]

2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

That’s fair do’s, Fuzzar - must admit, I believe we’ll see a much fairer reflection of what our side can do in those games. Just got to hope Webber, Farke, and the players ignore the noise and don’t let supporters emotions get the better of them after today’s result. It could be very damaging.

And there it is again, not having a go Alex but it’s our second season in three here! so it’s supporters who will damage it! Not the lack of buying the players needed! We bought three wide attacking players and Gilmour when the priority was defence and CDM.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Indy

[ged in the onion bag 855]

The manner of that loss is gut-wrenching…. we can only play good football if we've got the ball, but if we're not going to get stuck in, compete, and disrupt opponents we've got major problems.  They have to hold their hands up and say that was unacceptable, 7 fouls against Man City’s 13 when they had 70% possession.   Last week 4 fouls against Liverpool's 14, that's not competitive that suggests there's no ammunition in the tin.     We've created enough unwanted EPL records and by the sounds of it, today could have been another one.   Looking at EPL stats, Sergi Canos 12 has made the same amount of tackles as our three midfielders put together, (Lees-Melou 8, Gilmour 2 and Rupp 2). 

Desperately hoping for a performance, I expected a defeat and sadly was not surprised it was heavy.    We just don't seem like a team that's capable to compete, to earn the right to play our game, which begs the question, is it fantasy to think we can play without a holding midfielder.    One is not enough, he could get injured.    Man City and Liverpool maybe a difficult start but let's face it, all EPL teams press high, have strength and the evidence is there, put a foot in.... all are more savvy than us!

Despite our brilliant football we still found strong teams like Watford difficult to cope with.  Since then we've lost Skipp and the new midfielders were not the priority, CDM’s were.     If we were ever going to learn from last time then it was that our central defensive midfield was woeful.   We addressed it by loaning Oliver Skipp at the expense of developing our own, seems like we’ve been desperately clinging onto a vain hope that he’d be back instead of getting on with the job.    We've had two years to address this position yet we persisted with a loan player and nothing else, not even any experiment with someone like Sorenson,  the lad's got absolutely no experience whatsoever.   Now were developing a Chelsea player who may or may not be any better and may find it hard to influence games in this current midfield. 

After relegation and then promotion it was obvious we needed new defensive midfielders (3 IMO) at this level.   Players with pace, power, anticipation and some quality.    This scouting system should have been able to find some suitable options in all that time.  Hard to see how we will address that now.

Two years ago both Rupp and McLean demonstrated that they did not have the crucial elements (pace, power and anticipation) to play central midfield in the Premier League... they couldn't cover our full-backs when they maraud.   McLean ended up being the only playable option (alongside Tettey) but he wasn't good enough.   Our very inexperienced back line had no protection whatsoever.

Playing three midfielder's nullifies our attack.   Holding midfielders give us the option to get full backs further forward and also to play two in midfield allowing an extra player licence, eg 4-2-3-1.

As for being ‘savvy’, Man City away is a far different proposition to Liverpool at home, especially when they were hurt and playing in front of home fans again.   Going with the same side as last week and the same formation was absolute suicide.    We desperately needed an outlet up front and surely Idah or Sargent could have given us that where an unfit Pukki was always likely to struggle.   First and foremost we needed bravery, enough to get in the faces of our opponents, a formation of 4-4-1-1 would have given us more of a chance.    No doubt 4-3-3 reverts to 4-5-1 but we needed more resoluteness on that pitch and Sargent, Idah and Sorensen would surely have given us that over Pukki, Rashica and Rupp / Gilmour.

Fully supportive of our club and the way it is run, but we are so predictable (and sadly Daniel is so predictable), we need to wise up big time.   Don’t mind losing but there are ways to lose, we are in this league, we have to prove we at least belong in it.   

[Cantiaci Canary 558]

The concerning thing is that, by chasing Normann, we clearly aren't looking to play with a thuggish DM at all this season.

If that's true, and we're going for 3 box to box types, we are in for a very long season indeed!

[Alex Moss 2,165]

24 minutes ago, Indy said:

And there it is again, not having a go Alex but it’s our second season in three here! so it’s supporters who will damage it! Not the lack of buying the players needed! We bought three wide attacking players and Gilmour when the priority was defence and CDM.

Totally hear your concerns about the lack of defensive additions thus far, Indy, but in fairness we needed to add a few more faces up front too, across the squad really. And I do think after playing Man City and Liverpool that the resultant hysteria is unfair on our lads etc because of the very nature of those fixtures - if it was 10 games in and we’d just been playing the lesser sides and we were really struggling then I could understand people going on one. But it’s the timing of it for me which I don’t thinks fair or rational. Right now, given the circumstances, it is not justified or fair on our part to turn so quickly. As I say, it could be damaging for upcoming games where it needn’t have been. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Alex Moss

[glory.win or die. 270]

1 hour ago, Danke bitte said:

Which is exactly the problem from last time. So I’m not really sure why it wasn’t a top priority. But I’m not going to keep banging that drum and I’ll shut up now and let the Norwich boys do their thing!

It's easier said than done but, as good a player as Gilmour is on the ball  he wasn't what we need. We need players good off the ball

[Crafty Canary 497]

One issue now is that the players we now hope to gain will have highr prices attached to them as their clubs will know we are desperate to bring in a CB and a DMF .

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,288]

35 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

The manner of that loss is gut-wrenching…. we can only play good football if we've got the ball, but if we're not going to get stuck in, compete, and disrupt opponents we've got major problems.  They have to hold their hands up and say that was unacceptable, 7 fouls against Man City’s 13 when they had 70% possession.   Last week 4 fouls against Liverpool's 14, that's not competitive that suggests there's no ammunition in the tin.     We've created enough unwanted EPL records and by the sounds of it, today could have been another one.   Looking at EPL stats, Sergi Canos 12 has made the same amount of tackles as our three midfielders put together, (Lees-Melou 8, Gilmour 2 and Rupp 2). 

Desperately hoping for a performance, I expected a defeat and sadly was not surprised it was heavy.    We just don't seem like a team that's capable to compete, to earn the right to play our game, which begs the question, is it fantasy to think we can play without a holding midfielder.    One is not enough, he could get injured.    Man City and Liverpool maybe a difficult start but let's face it, all EPL teams press high, have strength and the evidence is there, put a foot in.... all are more savvy than us!

Despite our brilliant football we still found strong teams like Watford difficult to cope with.  Since then we've lost Skipp and the new midfielders were not the priority, CDM’s were.     If we were ever going to learn from last time then it was that our central defensive midfield was woeful.   We addressed it by loaning Oliver Skipp at the expense of developing our own, seems like we’ve been desperately clinging onto a vain hope that he’d be back instead of getting on with the job.    We've had two years to address this position yet we persisted with a loan player and nothing else, not even any experiment with someone like Sorenson,  the lad's got absolutely no experience whatsoever.   Now were developing a Chelsea player who may or may not be any better and may find it hard to influence games in this current midfield. 

After relegation and then promotion it was obvious we needed new defensive midfielders (3 IMO) at this level.   Players with pace, power, anticipation and some quality.    This scouting system should have been able to find some suitable options in all that time.  Hard to see how we will address that now.

Two years ago both Rupp and McLean demonstrated that they did not have the crucial elements (pace, power and anticipation) to play central midfield in the Premier League... they couldn't cover our full-backs when they maraud.   McLean ended up being the only playable option (alongside Tettey) but he wasn't good enough.   Our very inexperienced back line had no protection whatsoever.

Playing three midfielder's nullifies our attack.   Holding midfielders give us the option to get full backs further forward and also to play two in midfield allowing an extra player licence, eg 4-2-3-1.

As for being ‘savvy’, Man City away is a far different proposition to Liverpool at home, especially when they were hurt and playing in front of home fans again.   Going with the same side as last week and the same formation was absolute suicide.    We desperately needed an outlet up front and surely Idah or Sargent could have given us that where an unfit Pukki was always likely to struggle.   First and foremost we needed bravery, enough to get in the faces of our opponents, a formation of 4-4-1-1 would have given us more of a chance.    No doubt 4-3-3 reverts to 4-5-1 but we needed more resoluteness on that pitch and Sargent, Idah and Sorensen would surely have given us that over Pukki, Rashica and Rupp / Gilmour.

Fully supportive of our club and the way it is run, but we are so predictable (and sadly Daniel is so predictable), we need to wise up big time.   Don’t mind losing but there are ways to lose, we are in this league, we have to prove we at least belong in it.   

Fantastic post, and impossible to argue against.