US healthcare failings

[Bill 1,788]

A very worthy, if not disturbing read.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/26/us-insurance-companies-coronavirus-hospitals

One where this system is unable to function smoothly or efficiently because of the jumple of competing pet care plan' insurance schems so beloved in the US. A system that reminds me of the rightwing nutters over here thoughts on the prison system. Thoughts that change very quickly when their imaginations meet reality .... Aitken, Archer.

The concern for us, is like Coovid19 it is already here. Pushed by politician through loony ideology or very persuasive consultative fees. So we see money being sucked out by private companies through paying minimal wages to often unmotivated staff. As

Which means " The average amount for someone admitted to the hospital with pneumonia, a respiratory condition that many coronavirus patients are facing, was $20,000 in 2018 for patients covered by private insurance "

Most weill say we already know this - but I would suggest it will only be through this 'epidemic' that we faully grasp the difference between the two systems, Much like comparing 19th century horse and cart to 21 century road transport. One area the US has finally struggled to catch up is what is known as Telemedecine, which allows consultations with a doctor via the internet. One that is not compatible with the insurance companies.

This was the real thought behind the idea of delivering broadband to every house in the UK. Not to provide free access to netflix, but to allow the exchange/transfer of data to and from every home. Many already bank on line, manage utility accounts, book rail, hotel thetre etc. So why not be able to take tests over the net. As equipment becomes smaller and more detailed how long will it be that you can attach something to your finger etc, plug it into the computer and it is analysied at the hospital - which need not be at an expensive part of the country - thus allowing a better dispersal of people.

It might sound a bit Sci-Fi but so much is possible when there is a universal system that draws on all resources. My opposition to this US style buffoonery is that you do not fatten a pig by keep weighing it. Every possible resource needs to be directed toward medical provision, not insurance sales and administration. See below to see how many billions are used up on unneccesary administration.

https://time.com/5759972/health-care-administrative-costs/

If nothing else this virus should give people the chance to read up beyond misleading media headlines. And don't think it isn't happening, just as with public land. There you see public car parks, school play grounds and sports parks slowly being nibbled away. A time when putting thinking caps on is of more importance than face masks.

[Surfer 1,547]

40 minutes ago, Bill said:

This was the real thought behind the idea of delivering broadband to every house in the UK. Not to provide free access to netflix, but to allow the exchange/transfer of data to and from every home. Many already bank on line, manage utility accounts, book rail, hotel thetre etc. So why not be able to take tests over the net. As equipment becomes smaller and more detailed how long will it be that you can attach something to your finger etc, plug it into the computer and it is analysied at the hospital - which need not be at an expensive part of the country - thus allowing a better dispersal of people.

It might sound a bit Sci-Fi but so much is possible when there is a universal system that draws on all resources. My opposition to this US style buffoonery is that you do not fatten a pig by keep weighing it. Every possible resource needs to be directed toward medical provision, not insurance sales and administration. See below to see how many billions are used up on unneccesary administration.

You are right on the money there Bill. 

So many public goods have been privatized, and not really for the benefit of anyone, as every system - government or private - bloats with administration over time. US doctors get paid a lot, but then their medical training bills are in the hundreds of thousands of Dollars so they have to.

One of the great advantages of the "Obamacare" legislation was breaking the chokehold that employer provided medical insurance has on employees. If you can't afford to leave or lose your job because of the enormous cost of private healthcare insurance, then you become tied to your employer. As soon as there is a public option that tie is broken and employees are free to leave or negotiate for higher wages. That's why Republicans hate that solution so badly, corporations lose their power over the workers. 

As for telemedicine, yes it's O.K but would be so much better if devices like this one that a friend told me about were adopted en-mass - especially in the rural areas of which USA has so many.

https://www.medwand.com/technology.html

Edited March 27, 2020 by Surfer

[Uncle Fred 526]

Lefty nonsense 

[wcorkcanary 4,337]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Lefty nonsense 

Humanist truth Fredo. Do catch up.

[dylanisabaddog 4,973]

46 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Lefty nonsense 

Welcome to the new future. You may actually like it

[TIL 1010 4,788]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Lefty nonsense 

Are you one of those ' rightwing nutters ' to which City1st refers ?

[Herman 9,820]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Lefty nonsense 

How are you enjoying this new found Conservative socialism? 😀

[Uncle Fred 526]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

How are you enjoying this new found Conservative socialism? 😀

Way to one world conservatism for my liking

Baroness Thatcher would be spinning in her grave. God rest her heroic soul 

[ron obvious 1,514]

To me, what's happening is the essence of governmental function. It should let people get on with their lives as much as possible & only intervene when necessary.

I regard it as Thatcher's huge mistake; the coal mining industry as it existed then was unsustainable & had to end, BUT to expect whole communities, thousands of people to just eff off & die was both immoral & stupid.

As at present, it's government's job to smooth out the bumps & alleviate the misery as far as possible without rewarding people for sitting on their ar$es. It's a difficult balancing act & can only be judged retrospectively, but it has to be done.

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,973]

Just now, ron obvious said:

To me, what's happening is the essence of governmental function. It should let people get on with their lives as much as possible & only intervene when necessary.

I regard it as Thatcher's huge mistake; the coal mining industry as it existed then was unsustainable & had to end, BUT to expect whole communities, thousands of people to just eff off & die was both immoral & stupid.

As at present, it's government's job to smooth out the bumps & alleviate the misery as far as possible without rewarding people for sitting on their ar$es. It's a difficult balancing act & can only be judged retrospectively, but it has to be done.

 

But if Maggie had kept the coal industry her husband wouldn't have made a fortune importing coal from South America. And she wouldn't have been able to live the last 2 years of her life at The Ritz. 

[Uncle Fred 526]

I do think people are missing entirely the point of the virus

Man is destroying the planet , the virus is nature’s way of trimming the herd and minimising our negative impact 

our approach is going against the basic rules of nature. Imagine a predatory animal chasing a herd of day springboks. What do they do, how do they survive? what does the predator target? 

its no different with the virus, all the virus is trying to do is to restore some balance to the planet
 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Uncle Fred likes The English Game because the Toffs win by cheating.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I regard it as Thatcher's huge mistake; the coal mining industry as it existed then was unsustainable & had to end, BUT to expect whole communities, thousands of people to just eff off & die was both immoral & stupid.

It was a two fold effect Ron. Destroy the Trade Union movement by using the Police who were earning thousands in overtime payments. In one fell swoop she had created a battle between symbols of the Left and Right. And there was only going to be one winner.

[Uncle Fred 526]

God bless the Baroness 

[Molly Windley 76]

Can you tele-medicine someone a ventilator or do you need a 3D printer for that?

[ron obvious 1,514]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I do think people are missing entirely the point of the virus

Man is destroying the planet , the virus is nature’s way of trimming the herd and minimising our negative impact 

our approach is going against the basic rules of nature. Imagine a predatory animal chasing a herd of day springboks. What do they do, how do they survive? what does the predator target? 

its no different with the virus, all the virus is trying to do is to restore some balance to the planet
 

 

So you're saying the virus is conscious? 

Teleology gone mad.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

10 hours ago, Surfer said:

You are right on the money there Bill. 

So many public goods have been privatized, and not really for the benefit of anyone, as every system - government or private - bloats with administration over time. US doctors get paid a lot, but then their medical training bills are in the hundreds of thousands of Dollars so they have to.

One of the great advantages of the "Obamacare" legislation was breaking the chokehold that employer provided medical insurance has on employees. If you can't afford to leave or lose your job because of the enormous cost of private healthcare insurance, then you become tied to your employer. As soon as there is a public option that tie is broken and employees are free to leave or negotiate for higher wages. That's why Republicans hate that solution so badly, corporations lose their power over the workers. 

As for telemedicine, yes it's O.K but would be so much better if devices like this one that a friend told me about were adopted en-mass - especially in the rural areas of which USA has so many.

https://www.medwand.com/technology.html

That gadget is the way things will develop, in spite of insurers trying to block it. I would suggest it is merely the early stages. But does point to the ability of healthcare not being totally dependent on face to face or only happening in designated buildings. No, you won;t be having heart surgery on your kitchen table. But you should be able to be checked via the internet with a doctor in any part of the UK, or heaven forbid Europe.

And this is the defing difference between the two systems. Whether you have the UK system where the pressire is on to get the most out of the money spent, or the US where the pressiutre is on to cut spending.

For innovation and progress to evolve it needs a functioning base - noyt one subject to the whims of shareholder dividend. The failings of the US employer insurance were seen and legislated against in the UK ie the 'truck' systenand tied cottages. Not only were they not seen as 'fair' but were inefficient in causing more skilled workers out of those indiustries.

Much as with the NHS,. However it works now compared to the original intent it is it's universality that is it's remit. One that actually costs business far less and delivers a healthier work force than the pre war US style fragmented nonsense. The point with the latter is if it had any merit the US armed forces would be individual insurance based, as would their fire legal,and police services.

A point where the bleat of 'minimum government intervention falls flat - if only that no one has defined who says what is minimum. And ensuring that society has a badse to run from is 'intervention' seems rathetr bizarre.

You need only look at the US to see the effecys of government withdrawing from it's role to see a crumbling infrastructure where so much is 'literally' falling apart. Contrast that current sorry state of affairs with Roosevelt's new deal. Or Rishi's sudden found money forest.

https://www.businessinsider.com/asce-gives-us-infrastructure-a-d-2017-3?r=US&IR=T

However, be under no illusion there are those this side of the pond, who through stupidity or ignorance will not only stand by and but actively encourage private health care. Which will not come as some noticably big bang, but as a ;thief in the night' A night that grows more frequent by the week now.