Yellow Rages 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I have been a Norwich City supporter for 30 years now and decided recently to have a look in here, because I thought I might get some insight into what people knew about recent transer situations and possible movements in the market.What I have infact discovered (excluding a few posters with some knowledge of the game) is that this is actually a "slapstick circus performance" the Chuckle Brothers would be proud of.The goldfish, for what is essentially a sea creature, boasts a longer memory span than a large number of posters comments I have read. Nigel Worthington helped drag this club from the gutter into the Premiership and with little money to spend in comparison to his counterparts, experienced relegation along with one of the other sides promoted. The third only surviving on the last day. What does that tell you about the task put in front of him and the team? This season has proved difficult to adjust to, especially considering a large number of loan players, coupled with a crippling injury list. He has had to juggle with bare bones for some time now, something no other club in that league has had to do. Simply just expecting results is ignorant and blinkered. This isn''t Real Madrid where success is the only option for a manager because he has undisposible funds and talents at his finger tips. This is Norwich City where there isn''t alot of money and there never will be. There aren''t twenty two international players to call on. At this level and with our budget, solidarity is our biggest asset. Solidarity and patience. Having the fans behind the club is an essential ingredient to success. "Why should we back Worthington or the players?" I hear you say. Well think of it this way. Be you a player, a supporter, a manager or a chairman, the required result is the same. We all want success and you had better believe that. Let each of these do what they do best in their area of providing that, but recap befor you make the almighty call on what under achievement is. You call Dean Ashton a "Judas" for leaving our club. A "Judas?" Was he a "Judas" when he left Crewe and you loved him. It''s the same bloke. That''s really what I''m on about when I talk about slapstick circus. People spouting off who don''t know understand or think about what they are saying.What worries me more though is that it is probably some of the same people who have season tickets that come up with this ridiculous cliched dribble,who therefore prevent supporters who understand the game from leaving the waiting list. I feel sorry for you if that is your case.If you can''t come together for the cause, than save your money go on holiday somwhere. August to May is really nice so i''m told! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
First Wizard 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Good morning Delia!.Now resign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,293 Posted January 24, 2006 Oi! Change your moniker!........I don''t want any confusion between your sensible post and my inane, always goin'' off on a tangent rambling drivel!!! Get it changed and sorted NOW!..... regards.... "Dah REEL Mello Yello!" "Innit!" ;~)I reckon you work for the club anyway! What do you know? Get yer facts roight! Paul & Barry Chuckle are Rotherham supporter''s! I bet you''re on the board! Close chums with Delia & Mickey Wynn and Chairman Mumbles are you?! I bet yer are! So There!Now back to reality.......Nice post *ellow*ellow (I wus ''ere first! My moniker-so change yours!)........I feel I can''t totally agree with the content of your post, but you''ve certainly given food for thought. I have also followed NCFC for a considerable amount of time. Even through turbulent times I''ve always bleated, whinged, vented my spleen, contemplated cricket......(Ok, maybe the cricket thing was an untruth) But I''ve always supported the club through ''tick & tin''. Supporting the club is a challenge in itself. Witnessing various games that have been superb, dross, boring or cured my insomnia......and yet, I still attend regardless. Why do I do it? Why not channel my £478.00 due for my season ticket into something more rewarding - like ''ladies of the night?'' Theatre Royal, Fishing, Beer fags and skittles? Limbo dancing? Fitness Suite?!!! or if I really want to flush it down the pan...Support Ipswing Trowel! Maybe it''s because I''m a glutton for punishment. No, I know what it is.........It''s a way of life! I''m hooked and I arrange my life around football! How sad is that hey? I am one of 20.000 plus who are currently attending Carra Rud......Yeah, we aren''t ''Really Madrid''! Neither are we Accrington Stanley! Although folk still turn up to be entertained, socialise and support ''their club'' because the fan''s are the club. Also they have belief, belief that maybe we can turn it around this season. But, I''m afraid not with Nigel and Co! My opinion, my thoughts, and after 5 years and a bite of the ''Prem cherry'' he''s gone as far as he can personally.I''m afraid my patience has worn thin, and if I were a vulture, I would probably end up killing something - rather than wait for it to pop it''s clogs. Yes, you are correct in what you say in some quarters, but all of us are different, have different opinions, some thoughtful, some infantile & immature, some downright ludicrous! But it''s what attracts me to this board......it''s not regimental, whether it''s the Pro or anti board, bye Worthy or whatever? I enjoy it and, I will continue to enjoy it......''Dah REEL Mello Yello!'' ''innit'' ;~)Now change your moniker before I report you for ''identity theft!'' ;~) OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bury Yellow 2 Posted January 24, 2006 Noting the time of your post Mello, whatever you are on I don''t want it.All the KTfs points of view have a common thread and that is ''we are only a small club be grateful for where we are'' I think this is one of the main areas of disagreement with the rest of us. You have your point of view Mello but I just don''t agree with you. I also take exception to the tone of your post and the likes of ''Squit'' ''Dicky'' et al whereby there is this implication that the W/outers are either fairweather supporters or are disloyal. If you are happy with the style of football that is being served up. If you are happy that funds distributed for players are of the correct percentage. If you are happy with the Manager. If you are happy and accept the Robinson transfer fee loan etc etc was a marvellous gesture by some of our directors for example. Well great good for you. You obviously enjoy your trips to Carrow Road not forgetting the away trips we all go on. What an education that is you will agree.I and many others will continue to support the club but just as importantly we need Executive boxes sold and the bigger independent investors to stay on board with the club. I know of at least two who will not renew their investment next year should this situation continue.It could well be that there will be some exciting signings in this week befitting a club our size. The problem is I cannot recall one player that Worthy has signed who has improved under his coaching. Oh dear!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infamy, Infamy 0 Posted January 24, 2006 [quote user="Bury Yellow"] The problem is I cannot recall one player that Worthy has signed who has improved under his coaching. Oh dear!! [/quote]Dario Gradi was on TV at the weekend saying that Deano had played "the best all round game I''ve seen him play" when we played at Crewe. So it seems at least one player has improved, to more than double his value a year ago! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,293 Posted January 24, 2006 [quote user="mellowyellow"]I have been a Norwich City supporter for 30 years now and decided recently to have a look in here, because I thought I might get some insight into what people knew about recent transer situations and possible movements in the market.What I have infact discovered (excluding a few posters with some knowledge of the game) is that this is actually a "slapstick circus performance" the Chuckle Brothers would be proud of.The goldfish, for what is essentially a sea creature, boasts a longer memory span than a large number of posters comments I have read. Nigel Worthington helped drag this club from the gutter into the Premiership and with little money to spend in comparison to his counterparts, experienced relegation along with one of the other sides promoted. The third only surviving on the last day. What does that tell you about the task put in front of him and the team? This season has proved difficult to adjust to, especially considering a large number of loan players, coupled with a crippling injury list. He has had to juggle with bare bones for some time now, something no other club in that league has had to do. Simply just expecting results is ignorant and blinkered. This isn''t Real Madrid where success is the only option for a manager because he has undisposible funds and talents at his finger tips. This is Norwich City where there isn''t alot of money and there never will be. There aren''t twenty two international players to call on. At this level and with our budget, solidarity is our biggest asset. Solidarity and patience. Having the fans behind the club is an essential ingredient to success. "Why should we back Worthington or the players?" I hear you say. Well think of it this way. Be you a player, a supporter, a manager or a chairman, the required result is the same. We all want success and you had better believe that. Let each of these do what they do best in their area of providing that, but recap befor you make the almighty call on what under achievement is. You call Dean Ashton a "Judas" for leaving our club. A "Judas?" Was he a "Judas" when he left Crewe and you loved him. It''s the same bloke. That''s really what I''m on about when I talk about slapstick circus. People spouting off who don''t know understand or think about what they are saying.What worries me more though is that it is probably some of the same people who have season tickets that come up with this ridiculous cliched dribble,who therefore prevent supporters who understand the game from leaving the waiting list. I feel sorry for you if that is your case.If you can''t come together for the cause, than save your money go on holiday somwhere. August to May is really nice so i''m told! [/quote]C''mon people! I''m ''Mello Yello!'' ;~) He/she is ''MELLOW YELLOW!'' Please don''t confuse me - with the individual that is responsible for the above thread.........I''m innocent! and I''m the only Cathedral Lounge ''Mello Yello!'' In fact, there''s only one of me and that means I''m ''Eunich'' err.......unique I mean.. ;~) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breaker 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Bury Yellow hit the nail on the head when he spoke of the lack of quality or improvement in City''s play. Whilst it is true that NW has had to contend with many injuries it is also true that he started the season with the smallest squad in years with a particular weakness in central and right midfield - surely he must take some responsibility for shipping out 5/6 players, stating we needed to replace these AND add a further 5/6 yet bringing in only 5, two of whom were right backs.No matter how one looks at the current team, there is very little quality taking place on the pitch, the style of football is predictable and limited and as a consequence there is very little for us supporters to get excited about. Yet we are the best supported club in the division in terms of sell-out crowds. At some point MelloW YelloW, this situation will begin to unfold, with smaller crowds, less income, the few good players we have leaving (either to balance the books or because they want to play at a higher level) and we will become resident in this division for a long time.Yes NW did a great job for us and he is a genuine, honest, hard working manager but I feel, as do many others, that he has limitations and that these are ruining the current squad. Why is Dario Gradi still at Crewe? Because he brings on young players and his teams always play with style. Oh for a manager that we could say the same about, even if we did not get promoted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Barman 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Breaker, whilst you may be correct in a lot of your post (ie I agree with it!), I feel the following accusation has been trotted out too often..."Whilst it is true that NW has had to contend with many injuries it isalso true that he started the season with the smallest squad in yearswith a particular weakness in central and right midfield - surely hemust take some responsibility for shipping out 5/6 players, stating weneeded to replace these AND add a further 5/6 yet bringing in only 5,two of whom were right backs."Who says Worthy wasn''t desperately trying to get the extra bodies in - and what was standing in his way? He''s generally very straightforward in what he says, not mincing his words. Only Crowe & Edworthy were shown the door, with an offer accepted for Jonson who''d previously said he wanted to stay (as did Deano, players eh?). For whatever reason, Worthy wasn''t able to bring in the players he wanted to - we do know that he was told that funds had to be raised to finance purchases, with only Jonson bringing in a fee prior to Francis''s late ship-jumping manouvere.Whose was the fault that only a small amount was spent in August? With apparently limited options he strengthened as best he could - Hughes, Marney and Thorne were generally seen as OK, prior to seeing how they''d fit in. The two right backs were bigger gambles, although Louis-Jean had played top-flight for Forest (and not just the year they came down!) and Colin was touted as a quality prospect by the Dutch papers.Now some major money should be available, let''s see how we do - the big buys of Huckerby & Ashton were quality pieces of business and Jonson could have really shone this season (players are allowed to say no to transfers).I honestly believe that Worthy''s hands were tied in August, he''s just not the sort to whinge in public about it. If he fails this week he''ll have virtually no excuse - barring the board refusing to release the dosh! If that happens I''d expect him to walk due to lack of support from above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky green trainers 0 Posted January 24, 2006 spoken from the heart mellow as a true fan should.However, the board chose the manager over the supporters in the autumn, and opened up the beginnings of a split between them and the supporters. No great mystery. The only way they can get get the fans back on board after selling deano, is by giving a clear indication of city''s ambition by spending on 1-2, maybe 3 quality players in the jan window and hope worthy makes the top six. if by some miracle he gets us promoted, then many fans will back on board - why? becuase their decision to back worthy will have been vindicated. no great mystery there.until then, there is discontent and no amount of bs, spin or pr will change that. I suggest you live with it cos its real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheeky Monkey 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Mello Yello - you should think yourself lucky. There are two Cheeky Monkeys on here. No difference in the name whatsoever.How many other doubles are there out there I wonder? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Boy 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I like this thread! There are some good points made on both sides, without intrusions from the loonies (with one exception). Breaker''s right - the football is often very poor. But then, against Southampton it was pretty good, so they can do it right. But on the other hand, even with the full team, we''ve played rubbish. We have had big injury problems, but the players that come in shouldn''t be hugely inferior to the injured ones, and they are. But then again, in Safri we have an exceptional player, and if we had a spare one of those, we''d be the envy of a few Premiership clubs. OK, so in that case why have we allowed Safri to play so few games?The point I''m trying to make is that for every argument there''s a counter-argument, and at the end of the day we each have to make a judgement. Mine is that there''s a lack of strategic management - maintaining the size and balance of the squad, and a lack of tactical management - failing to prepare for eventualities like injuries, suspensions, the Christmas "bulge" and the ACN! In fact, an all-round shortage of preparation. But then, on the other hand, we''re no worse than the majority of Clubs in that respect. Ah, but we should be up with the best, not down with the majority..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USAcanary 0 Posted January 24, 2006 [quote user="Fat Barman"]Breaker, whilst you may be correct in a lot of your post (ie I agree with it!), I feel the following accusation has been trotted out too often..."Whilst it is true that NW has had to contend with many injuries it is also true that he started the season with the smallest squad in years with a particular weakness in central and right midfield - surely he must take some responsibility for shipping out 5/6 players, stating we needed to replace these AND add a further 5/6 yet bringing in only 5, two of whom were right backs."Who says Worthy wasn''t desperately trying to get the extra bodies in - and what was standing in his way? He''s generally very straightforward in what he says, not mincing his words. Only Crowe & Edworthy were shown the door, with an offer accepted for Jonson who''d previously said he wanted to stay (as did Deano, players eh?). For whatever reason, Worthy wasn''t able to bring in the players he wanted to - we do know that he was told that funds had to be raised to finance purchases, with only Jonson bringing in a fee prior to Francis''s late ship-jumping manouvere.Whose was the fault that only a small amount was spent in August? With apparently limited options he strengthened as best he could - Hughes, Marney and Thorne were generally seen as OK, prior to seeing how they''d fit in. The two right backs were bigger gambles, although Louis-Jean had played top-flight for Forest (and not just the year they came down!) and Colin was touted as a quality prospect by the Dutch papers.Now some major money should be available, let''s see how we do - the big buys of Huckerby & Ashton were quality pieces of business and Jonson could have really shone this season (players are allowed to say no to transfers).I honestly believe that Worthy''s hands were tied in August, he''s just not the sort to whinge in public about it. If he fails this week he''ll have virtually no excuse - barring the board refusing to release the dosh! If that happens I''d expect him to walk due to lack of support from above.[/quote]To use the argument that certain players said they "wanted to stay" in public as the reality is laughable.What do you expect players to say "I like cashing the cheque but if I get a decent offer I will leave as quickly as possible because the manager is clueless" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breaker 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I have responded to your well-considered posts before, Fat Barman, and your reasoning has some validity about Nigel''s hands being tied. However, my second point about the quality and style of play has not been addressed. As NW has been in charge for what, 4 years or so, I would expect to be watching a positive, consistent style of football as he has had the time to forge the backbone of a squad. We did not have lots of players ''jumping ship'' when we were relegated so this expectation is not unrealistic. I cannot, hand on heart, say that Norwich City as a team has progressed from the team that played in the promotion season. Therefore I am unable to look into the future with any clarity as to the type of team we might become. The STYLE of football is my main gripe and that is clearly the responsibility of the management and coaching staff. We have gone through the season without a right winger to supply our ''star'' striker yet NW has bought two more central midfielders, neither of whom have demonstrated any significant creativity, guile or vision. I have enjoyed watching the likes of Luton, Watford, Preston & Leeds this season as they appear, in general, to be building teams that play cohesive and attractive attacking football. That is really all I want FB, to go and watch a Norwich City team that plays with determination, skill and the flair that prompted me to change allegiance and become a supporter when I moved here 20 years ago having been a lifelong Manchester United fan (even when they were relegated!). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Barman 0 Posted January 24, 2006 I''m with you breaker - my previous post began by saying that I couldn''t fault anything you''d said apart from the piece I''d highlighted. The remainder of your original post is too valid to have holes picked in it, as is your follow up. You''ve mentioned one of my particular bugbears - the lack of passion shown in too many games this season.It makes me angry to see such apparent lack of effort from this City side. During last seasons adversity you could see 99% of the team busting a gut to try and get that elusive away win - even Francis managed it before his injury. You see the same passion from Wigan and West Brom week in and week out on MOTD, yet it rarely rears its'' head at Carrow Road. Is it because the players are sulking about being on lower wages? I don''t know. It seems as if any benefit gained from the sports pschologist has evaporated with the new year champagne bubbles.As for USAcanary, I understand irony to be in short supply over the pond. I thought it was obvious from the way I put it that I lent little substance to the words of professional footballers. That was my point. It''s been suggested on this forum that Jonson only left because he thought the club didn''t want him - far more likely, surely, that he left because he had a better offer from closer to home? That was why I drew the comparison with Dean - eager to help us at the start of the season, couldn''t wait to get back in the Prem come January. Money talks to players aswell as to Boardrooms, a fact I don''t need pointing out to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Rages 0 Posted January 24, 2006 Mello Yello.............as a new poster on this board, I was unaware that that moniker or similar had already been used. I appoligise for that and will change it to somthing else.To nearly all others who have posted on this thread, look whats happened. A well structured debate based on opinion and fact. Agree or disagree, I have complete respect for each of you for putting across such well composed thoughts and comments.Makes a nice change and has certainly given me new views to consider.ThanksThe artist formerly known as Mellow yellow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USAcanary 0 Posted January 25, 2006 [quote user="Fat Barman"]I''m with you breaker - my previous post began by saying that I couldn''t fault anything you''d said apart from the piece I''d highlighted. The remainder of your original post is too valid to have holes picked in it, as is your follow up. You''ve mentioned one of my particular bugbears - the lack of passion shown in too many games this season.It makes me angry to see such apparent lack of effort from this City side. During last seasons adversity you could see 99% of the team busting a gut to try and get that elusive away win - even Francis managed it before his injury. You see the same passion from Wigan and West Brom week in and week out on MOTD, yet it rarely rears its'' head at Carrow Road. Is it because the players are sulking about being on lower wages? I don''t know. It seems as if any benefit gained from the sports pschologist has evaporated with the new year champagne bubbles.As for USAcanary, I understand irony to be in short supply over the pond. I thought it was obvious from the way I put it that I lent little substance to the words of professional footballers. That was my point. It''s been suggested on this forum that Jonson only left because he thought the club didn''t want him - far more likely, surely, that he left because he had a better offer from closer to home? That was why I drew the comparison with Dean - eager to help us at the start of the season, couldn''t wait to get back in the Prem come January. Money talks to players aswell as to Boardrooms, a fact I don''t need pointing out to me.[/quote]When we won the championship West ham were not percieved the "bigger club" Now two years on they are the big boys and we are the minnows who can "only" attract 25,000 every week.The truth is the players see no future. They see clueless management.I believe that Dean Ashton signed his contract extension in good faith. After seeing how Worthy has sold the better players, wasted money bringing in poor replacements, combined with mind numbing tactics, who can blame hime for changing his mind.I actually honestly think wages were a smaller part of the equation than most KTF`s would have us believe.Deano saw a club going backwards, he want to go forwards, he wants quality service so he can try and force his way into the England squad for the world cup.I think most people are more worried about Worthy wasting the money than they are about Ashton going.This is a great oppotunity to rebuild before the parashute payments fizzle out so we can have a solid crack next year at promotion.BTW Its Ironic that I was born within spitting distance of "carra rud" , any other incorrect assumptions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0 Posted January 25, 2006 City are now attracting the wrong type of player i.e. the aging mercenary, look toward young thrusting players with ability who are hungry to succeed.But these players expect that a move to City to be a stepping stone if City cannot fulfil their ambitions, which one season in Prem will not fulfil that ambition, see Deano for confirmation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 274 Posted January 25, 2006 I cant beleive pete is getting posts moderated at such an unearthly hour! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Barman 0 Posted January 25, 2006 I have no intention of getting in a slanging match with you, or anyone else USA! This is what is upsetting other posters on here.For the record - I never assumed you were a septic, very few would even know where Norwich is! I merely said irony is in short supply in the states. Unless you are misleading me with your moniker, that is where you live now. When you live somewhere it is not uncommon to pick up similar traits as the locals (such as a sense of humour bypass and inability to take criticism[;)]).If you had read both my previous posts correctly you would have saved both of us some typing time.Historically (bar a few years in the late 70''s) West Ham have been a much bigger club than us - try asking most people outside of Norfolk what they think. The remainder of your post is ''ironically'' a set of assumptions, which neither you, or I, know if they''re incorrect or not!I agree that there is a certain nervousness about what the Ashton (and Green, maybe) cash will be spent on, but, IMO, it won''t be wasted.I also agree that this is our best bet for rebuilding a team capable of promotion. My hope is that we will make the play-offs this season - that may be too optimistic for some people to swallow, but that''s me. Last season I wasn''t convinced we were going down until 4-0 at Fulham!Like I said, I''m not interested in a slanging match - but I''m here if you want a debate (can we leave labels like KTF and WO to one side please?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,293 Posted January 25, 2006 [quote user="Yellow Rages"]Mello Yello.............as a new poster on this board, I was unaware that that moniker or similar had already been used. I appoligise for that and will change it to somthing else.To nearly all others who have posted on this thread, look whats happened. A well structured debate based on opinion and fact. Agree or disagree, I have complete respect for each of you for putting across such well composed thoughts and comments.Makes a nice change and has certainly given me new views to consider.ThanksThe artist formerly known as Mellow yellow.[/quote]"Yellow Rages" (or the artist formerly known as *ellow *ellow!) Welcome to the board Sir/Madam. I was only joking when I said I would report you for identity theft! You can have any ''Monica Lewinsky'' you so ever wish........Please don''t let me dictate........Or everyone will assume I''m a control freak!........Now excuse me, I have to refit the chastity belt to the missus and lock her in the cupboard, order the kid''s to get my lunch and wash the car, tell the neighbours not to touch my wall, my hedge or go anywhere near my drive etc, etc. I must keep on top of things - or folk will take advantage! ;~) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites