Herman 9,823 Posted August 30, 2020 Same thoughts ALOS. But yeah, it's another load of bollox from Jools.😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Herman said: This stuff is easy to check. So it is 👉 https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/eur/14003-best-pound-to-euro-exchange-rate-today-following-fed 🙃 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,823 Posted August 30, 2020 The dizzying heights of 1.11?? FFS.😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Herman said: The dizzying heights of 1.11?? FFS.😀 But you and your fellow Remainiacs told us the pound would completely collapse and never recover right after we voted to leave the EU 🤥 Edited August 30, 2020 by Jools Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 What’s the point of a UK-EU trade deal, if only the EU benefits? 12 years of talks, and Canada’s EU deal resulted in its goods deficit worsening by 27% Canadian PM Trudeau & EU Commission President Juncker sign trade deal, 2016 16 years after starting talks, Canada’s deal still hasn’t been ratified by half the EU’s countries An EXCLUSIVE Brexit Facts4EU.Org update on Canada's woeful experience with the EU The EU has so few serious trade deals with the rest of the world that it still trumpets one deal – the one with Canada - which only half the EU27 countries have signed. It’s a deal which has benefited the EU more than Canada. If the UK’s experience with the EU follows Canada’s, questions must be asked about whether the current UK-EU talks are worth the candle. Back in the glory days of 2016 immediately after the British people had voted to leave the European Union, the EU Commission was desperate for any kind of positive news to present. In October 2016 they duly invited the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, to Brussels to sign the long-awaited ‘Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement’ (CETA) which had notionally been agreed three years earlier, back in 2014. Never one to pass up a photo opportunity Mr Trudeau accepted the EU’s invitation, and on 30 October 2016 CETA was signed by him amongst much pomp and circumstance in Brussels. What has happened to Canada’s trade deficit with the EU since signing the trade deal? Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary Canada’s trade deficit since signing the EU-Canada trade deal in 2016 Canada’s deficit in goods with the EU27 has worsened by 27%, to -€17.5bn Canada’s deficit in services with the EU27 has not improved either and is now -€5.5bn Canada's EU27 exports have risen, but the EU27's exports to Canada have risen far more When the UK is removed, Canada's exports to the EU overall will have dropped dramatically © Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge Four months before Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau flew to Brussels to sign the EU-Canada (CETA) deal, the British people had voted to leave the EU. At that moment the EU deal suddenly became much less sweet to Canada. In 2016 Canadians sold goods worth $Canadian 41,880 million to the EU28 43% of this was actually sold to the UK Without the UK, Canada's EU Trade Agreement is worth a whole lot less than it was © Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge The tortured history of this trade deal which the EU is so proud of The EU says the EU-Canada trade deal (CETA) took 7 years. No it didn’t. It started in 2004 in Ottawa. That’s 12 years before it was signed. Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary Timeline of Canada-EU Trade Deal 2004 : Ottawa, deal framework was agreed, negotiations started 2009 : Prague, negotiations were rebranded as CETA trade deal 2014 : Toronto, a signed ‘in principle’ agreement was presented 2016 : Brussels, deal is vetoed by Belgian region of Wallonia 2016 : Brussels, deal is signed by Canadian PM Justin Trudeau 2017 : Brussels, parts of the deal are finally effected 2020 : Brussels, only 14 of the 27 EU member states have so far ratified the deal None of the EU27’s top 3 economies have ratified: Germany, France, and Italy 12 years since negotiations started with the EU, and then the problems really started If Mr Trudeau thought the CETA deal was done and dusted, he was in for a surprise. First up was the divided EU member state of Belgium, which still today only barely functions as a country. Belgium requested the ECJ to rule on whether the CETA deal was in fact lawful. In the months leading up to Mr Trudeau’s visit, ‘the Walloons went up’. Wallonia is a French-speaking part of Belgium with its own parliament, and they refused to sign. In the end, a day before Justin Trudeau’s arrival in Brussels, pressure was brought to bear and Belgium agreed in principle to sign, although it still hasn’t ratified the deal. The United Kingdom ratified the deal on 08 November 2018, while it was still a member of the EU. Observations How logical are the EU? It would seem logical to try to do trade deals with the world’s largest economies, and to make these the key priorities. After all, if you compare just one deal with a country like the USA with a country like Canada, a US deal would be worth ten times what the Canadian deal is worth. Unfortunately after more than 60 years of existence, the EEC/EU hasn’t managed to do a trade deal with the biggest and most powerful economy in the world. What price an EU-UK trade deal? After America the United Kingdom is the EU27’s second-largest market – far bigger than that of China. Instead of working hard and in good faith to negotiate a new trading arrangement with the UK, the EU has placed every conceivable obstacle (and quite a few inconceivable ones) in the way of achieving a successful outcome. This started in 2016 when it refused to have any discussions with the UK – not even informal ones. In the intervening years the number of artificial obstructions it has thrown up has been legion. Hope is now being placed in a last-minute compromise being forged, with Barnier being sidelined and the EU27 leaders (Angela Merkel in particular) becoming involved in the final months of this year. What we should do with the EU Our response to the EU is simple. No compromise. We would tell the EU27 politely: “Do a normal free trade deal now or we will hold you as acting in bad faith. The evidence for this is now unequivocal and overwhelming. As a result we will be legally entitled to repudiate the Withdrawal Agreement. No massive divorce bill. No nothing. Trade with us on WTO terms by all means, if you want to try to keep the €100bn+ trade surpluses you’ve been running with us each year.” Our message to Prime Minister Johnson is equally simple : “Announce immediate and full-scale preparations for a WTO-terms exit. Publicise these daily, just like you did with the Coronavirus. And make sure Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron know that you mean business. Announce that you will also be repudiating the Withdrawal Agreement.” [ Sources: Statistics Canada | Eurostat | EU Commission ] Politicians, journalists and Pink'Un Remainiacs can contact us for details, as ever. Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 29 Aug 2020 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,823 Posted August 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jools said: But you and your fellow Remainiacs told us the pound would completely collapse right after we voted to leave the EU 🤥 It did you Swindo. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 30, 2020 Boris Tells Frost To Walk Away From Brexit Talks reported by City AM 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,221 Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Jools said: Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 29 Aug 2020 More comedy gold from Jools 'fact' website. 😀 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said: More comedy gold from Jools 'fact' website. 😀 [canned laughter] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192 Posted August 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Jools said: What’s the point of a UK-EU trade deal, if only the EU benefits? 12 years of talks, and Canada’s EU deal resulted in its goods deficit worsening by 27% Canadian PM Trudeau & EU Commission President Juncker sign trade deal, 2016 16 years after starting talks, Canada’s deal still hasn’t been ratified by half the EU’s countries An EXCLUSIVE Brexit Facts4EU.Org update on Canada's woeful experience with the EU The EU has so few serious trade deals with the rest of the world that it still trumpets one deal – the one with Canada - which only half the EU27 countries have signed. It’s a deal which has benefited the EU more than Canada. If the UK’s experience with the EU follows Canada’s, questions must be asked about whether the current UK-EU talks are worth the candle. Back in the glory days of 2016 immediately after the British people had voted to leave the European Union, the EU Commission was desperate for any kind of positive news to present. In October 2016 they duly invited the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, to Brussels to sign the long-awaited ‘Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement’ (CETA) which had notionally been agreed three years earlier, back in 2014. Never one to pass up a photo opportunity Mr Trudeau accepted the EU’s invitation, and on 30 October 2016 CETA was signed by him amongst much pomp and circumstance in Brussels. What has happened to Canada’s trade deficit with the EU since signing the trade deal? Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary Canada’s trade deficit since signing the EU-Canada trade deal in 2016 Canada’s deficit in goods with the EU27 has worsened by 27%, to -€17.5bn Canada’s deficit in services with the EU27 has not improved either and is now -€5.5bn Canada's EU27 exports have risen, but the EU27's exports to Canada have risen far more When the UK is removed, Canada's exports to the EU overall will have dropped dramatically © Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge Four months before Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau flew to Brussels to sign the EU-Canada (CETA) deal, the British people had voted to leave the EU. At that moment the EU deal suddenly became much less sweet to Canada. In 2016 Canadians sold goods worth $Canadian 41,880 million to the EU28 43% of this was actually sold to the UK Without the UK, Canada's EU Trade Agreement is worth a whole lot less than it was © Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge The tortured history of this trade deal which the EU is so proud of The EU says the EU-Canada trade deal (CETA) took 7 years. No it didn’t. It started in 2004 in Ottawa. That’s 12 years before it was signed. Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary Timeline of Canada-EU Trade Deal 2004 : Ottawa, deal framework was agreed, negotiations started 2009 : Prague, negotiations were rebranded as CETA trade deal 2014 : Toronto, a signed ‘in principle’ agreement was presented 2016 : Brussels, deal is vetoed by Belgian region of Wallonia 2016 : Brussels, deal is signed by Canadian PM Justin Trudeau 2017 : Brussels, parts of the deal are finally effected 2020 : Brussels, only 14 of the 27 EU member states have so far ratified the deal None of the EU27’s top 3 economies have ratified: Germany, France, and Italy 12 years since negotiations started with the EU, and then the problems really started If Mr Trudeau thought the CETA deal was done and dusted, he was in for a surprise. First up was the divided EU member state of Belgium, which still today only barely functions as a country. Belgium requested the ECJ to rule on whether the CETA deal was in fact lawful. In the months leading up to Mr Trudeau’s visit, ‘the Walloons went up’. Wallonia is a French-speaking part of Belgium with its own parliament, and they refused to sign. In the end, a day before Justin Trudeau’s arrival in Brussels, pressure was brought to bear and Belgium agreed in principle to sign, although it still hasn’t ratified the deal. The United Kingdom ratified the deal on 08 November 2018, while it was still a member of the EU. Observations How logical are the EU? It would seem logical to try to do trade deals with the world’s largest economies, and to make these the key priorities. After all, if you compare just one deal with a country like the USA with a country like Canada, a US deal would be worth ten times what the Canadian deal is worth. Unfortunately after more than 60 years of existence, the EEC/EU hasn’t managed to do a trade deal with the biggest and most powerful economy in the world. What price an EU-UK trade deal? After America the United Kingdom is the EU27’s second-largest market – far bigger than that of China. Instead of working hard and in good faith to negotiate a new trading arrangement with the UK, the EU has placed every conceivable obstacle (and quite a few inconceivable ones) in the way of achieving a successful outcome. This started in 2016 when it refused to have any discussions with the UK – not even informal ones. In the intervening years the number of artificial obstructions it has thrown up has been legion. Hope is now being placed in a last-minute compromise being forged, with Barnier being sidelined and the EU27 leaders (Angela Merkel in particular) becoming involved in the final months of this year. What we should do with the EU Our response to the EU is simple. No compromise. We would tell the EU27 politely: “Do a normal free trade deal now or we will hold you as acting in bad faith. The evidence for this is now unequivocal and overwhelming. As a result we will be legally entitled to repudiate the Withdrawal Agreement. No massive divorce bill. No nothing. Trade with us on WTO terms by all means, if you want to try to keep the €100bn+ trade surpluses you’ve been running with us each year.” Our message to Prime Minister Johnson is equally simple : “Announce immediate and full-scale preparations for a WTO-terms exit. Publicise these daily, just like you did with the Coronavirus. And make sure Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron know that you mean business. Announce that you will also be repudiating the Withdrawal Agreement.” [ Sources: Statistics Canada | Eurostat | EU Commission ] Politicians, journalists and Pink'Un Remainiacs can contact us for details, as ever. Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 29 Aug 2020 But I thought a Canada style trade agreement would be good 😟 Nigel Farage backs a Canada style trade agreement 🤗 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192 Posted August 30, 2020 Boris gives Nigel exactly what he wanted @Jools 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192 Posted August 30, 2020 If you only read one thing about Boris Johnson's deal, make it this What do you think, @Jools? 🧐 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: But I thought a Canada style trade agreement would be good 😟 Nigel Farage backs a Canada style trade agreement 🤗 CANZUK has nothing to do with the EU: 🇬🇧🇦🇺🇨🇦🇳🇿 🙃 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,823 Posted August 30, 2020 Canzuk. The phantom limb of empire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192 Posted August 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jools said: CANZUK has nothing to do with the EU: 🇬🇧🇦🇺🇨🇦🇳🇿 🙃 The question is the UK'S relationship with the EU, not CANZUK We were told by people in favour of leaving the EU that we could have a Canadian, or Norwegian or Icelandic, or Swiss style agreement with the EU Now you are trying to tell us that's no good? What was it you wanted back in 2016? A free trade area from Iceland to Turkey? That should be the aim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 30, 2020 https://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/gbp-usd-forecast-sterling-runs-despite-brexit-chaos-202008301238 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jools 584 Posted August 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, Herman said: Canzuk. The phantom limb of empire. CANZUK-advocating Tory, Erin O’Toole, is on the brink of election victory in Canada and Boris has hired Brexit supporting, Tony Abbott, as President of the Board of Trade 👍 Getting Socialist Jacinda Ardern on board could prove to be a bit of a challenge mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,541 Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/04/britain-already-66000000000-poorer-brexit-9113538/amp/?ito=article.desktop.share.top.twitter&__twitter_impression=true Not so much a surprise how Brexit will be so harmful I realise (to many) but this report quantifies it (Standard & Poor's April 2020). Brexit will be far more serious to the economy than Covid was the story months ago. In the next few months Sunak will introduce ways of paying for the pandemic. Will this clash with a no deal? Edited August 31, 2020 by sonyc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 31, 2020 This forum is the POSITIVE Brexit thread ! Some of you can't read ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,541 Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: This forum is the POSITIVE Brexit thread ! Some of you can't read ! I'm not someone who wants to trade insults, just ask questions really. I have to confess though that I can see no positives whatsoever. I really can't. I cannot see how curtailing our own freedoms travelling around Europe helps me (queues, bureaucracy) and that is only about me as a tourist. I despair at the effects on my children ahead (one who studied to work abroad). I believe food standards (and others) will deteriorate. I think there must be price inflation or surcharges on a number of goods and services (especially food). I am really not sure we will have a trade deal in place. It feels like scoring several own goals (to my simple mind). I cannot see any upsides (and have no understanding of 'controlling our borders' or 'taking back control' because they are meaningless to me...empty statements in fact). I see the UK as an outlier in the wider world economy. The UK once was a respected country in the EU (I used to attend EU Commission events in my past job and have some first hand experience). I love being part of a world that values togetherness, complementarity, cooperation and the European Union gave something of that. I know it's not a perfect club. Just like marriages and relationships though, you have to work at them. You have to compromise. In order to have a happy life, you have to listen, respect others, negotiate, mediate. Just coming out of Europe with what feels like a two fingered f*** off feels really infantile to me. It must say something (or be seen) on an international stage as the UK demonstrating exceptionalism. Yet, this act alone undervalues anything great about this country. It makes me feel embarrassed. Only history will tell. Yet, living in the midst of it is uncomfortable. I suppose we may rejoin in the future. I'm sorry Swindon I am not at all positive. I'm amazed at your enthusiasm. I only see trouble ahead, exacerbated economic problems, isolationism. I see some rich people getting richer with their hedging of the markets. I have some people I know abroad so I'm hopeful relationships can be maintained. It is not the majority of people who support Brexit, far from it. It's a shocking political con (in my view). I realise your gaze is not looking outwards but towards a UK on its own and I have to respect your right to hold this view. I know of others who feel the same. Just realise though, for quite a few people, it's very depressing and sad. Edited August 31, 2020 by sonyc 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 31, 2020 you obviously were not around before we joined the common market Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,221 Posted August 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: you obviously were not around before we joined the common market When we were known as the 'sick man of Europe'. I wonder what fixed that. 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,541 Posted August 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: you obviously were not around before we joined the common market That was when the Heath government were so keen to be in. Tell me, what was good about those days (I would have only been 14/ 15 ish)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 31, 2020 think before that, it was good pre- 1970's ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,221 Posted August 31, 2020 Swindon must've been a big fan of Harold Wilson. 1964 to 1970 we had a Labour Government, according to Swindon all was 'good', in 1970 the Tories were elected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 31, 2020 and look what Labour left the Tories ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted August 31, 2020 31 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: and look what Labour left the Tories ! An economic mess the Tories fixed in part by joining the EU. Which is why I would identify as a Tory still, except for the fact that party is no more and we have a bunch of raving right wing loonies infesting it’s carcass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,221 Posted August 31, 2020 54 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: and look what Labour left the Tories ! But you said it was 'good'? Now you're saying it was profligate, will you make up your mind? It's almost like you've no idea what you're talking about (again). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) what was good ? if you look at what was left by Labour it was a disaster up till then we were doing OK Edited August 31, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,221 Posted August 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: what was good ? if you look at what was left by Labour it was a disaster up till then we were doing OK At what point did it change from 'good' to 'a disaster'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
