The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,764]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

As a regular patient at the cancer clinic for the last eleven years I can only say that the idea that services have been run down, does not coincide with my experience.

They're still a highly professional outfit in spite of the government. But you have to look at the writings and beliefs of the current crop of Conservatives to know what they plan for the NHS and all other services. 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

16 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Most people don't care anymore as we have left, I only mention it for your information😚

Just for you Squit :

 

Germany's refusal to embrace 'coronabonds' amid the crisis could threaten the European Union's very survival

Italy’s political leaders from Left to Right have erupted in fury over the EU’s minimalist, insulting, and cack-handed response to the Covid-19 pandemic, warning that lack of economic solidarity risks pushing the bloc’s festering divisions beyond the point of no return. 

“Don’t make a tragic mistake. The whole European edifice risks losing its raison d’etre,” said the Italian premier, Giuseppe Conte, demanding a giant Marshall Plan funded on the EU’s joint credit card to relaunch the productive system once the current nightmare is over.

4th failure.

It's a story from the Daily Boris.

 

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

They're still a highly professional outfit in spite of the government. But you have to look at the writings and beliefs of the current crop of Conservatives to know what they plan for the NHS and all other services. 

So you still haven't found any such plan in any manifesto?

[Van wink 2,994]

22 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

4th failure.

It's a story from the Daily Boris.

 

Just for you Squit 

 

"The European Commission scrambled over the weekend to contain Italian anger after President Ursula von der Leyen spoke dismissively of a key demand from Rome and other southern capitals for a European response to the economic fallout from the coronavirus crisis.

In an interview published Saturday with German news agency DPA, von der Leyen appeared to reject the idea of a common debt instrument, sometimes called a corona bond — a step called for by Italy and Spain, which have the highest number of deaths from the coronavirus, and seven other EU countries, but so far opposed by Germany and others.

"The word corona bond is really just a slogan," von der Leyen said. "Behind it, though, there is the larger question of guarantees. And there, the concerns in Germany, but also in other countries, are justified."

Von der Leyen also specifically rejected a report by Germany's Der Spiegel magazine that the Commission was considering borrowing billions of euros to support unemployment insurance in member states. The debt issued would be a type of eurobond — the kind of instrument rejected by Germany and others.

"The legal limits are very clear, that is not the plan," von der Leyen said, in an apparent reference to strict rules around how the EU executive can borrow. "We are not working on that."

[SwindonCanary 455]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Known liar lies again.

 

Oh, Dear, where is the lie =is that all you can say ?

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

EU Leaders are reverting to the nationalism,  they have publicly claimed to have despised ! Are you glad we left ? If we had remained in,all our ventilators would have to be shared.

That is a blatant lie. We would not have had to share ventilators. Find some evidence for your claims. It’s actually quite sick that you’re using a devastating pandemic, that will cost at least hundreds of thousands of deaths, as a stick to beat the EU with.

You really are a rather unclassy, bitter and twisted gammon. Get f ucked 👍🏻

Edited March 30, 2020 by Hoola Han Solo

[Herman 9,764]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

So you still haven't found any such plan in any manifesto?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-dominic-raab-skewered-live-21014560

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Britannia-Unchained-Global-Lessons-Prosperity-ebook/dp/B0096MBNR2/ref=sr_1_6?qid=1585584076&refinements=p_27%3ADominic+Raab&s=books&sr=1-6

(Look at the authors and the positions of power they hold.)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Direct-Democracy-Agenda-Model-Party/dp/0955059801

(And again....)

There's your manifestos.

Free marketeers, Tufton Street shills, liars and frauds. Stop siding with these mothers.

 

[ricardo 7,395]

53 minutes ago, Herman said:

There's your manifestos.

Free marketeers, Tufton Street shills, liars and frauds. Stop siding with these mothers.

 

Like I said, you couldn't find anything in any manifesto but cobbled together some partisan rubbish from the Mirror, Independent  etc etc.

Somehow you still managed to come out with this straw man statement.

To "get Brexit done" you voted overwhelmingly for a party that was going to replace the NHS with an American style system or near as dammit.

 

 

[Herman 9,764]

Do you honestly think they are daft enough to put "we will privatise the NHS" in any manifesto? It would be electoral suicide.But it hasn't stopped them parcelling chunks off and selling it.

You either can't, but highly likely you don't, want to see what is quite clear. Look at the people that wrote these pieces. Raab, Gove, Patel, Truss etc.That is their ideological beliefs. Brexit was only the start of their power grab, now they have a massive majority and 5 years to do whatever they want. The NHS is clearly up for grabs.

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Do you honestly think they are daft enough to put "we will privatise the NHS" in any manifesto? It would be electoral suicide.But it hasn't stopped them parcelling chunks off and selling it.

You either can't, but highly likely you don't, want to see what is quite clear. Look at the people that wrote these pieces. Raab, Gove, Patel, Truss etc.That is their ideological beliefs. Brexit was only the start of their power grab, now they have a massive majority and 5 years to do whatever they want. The NHS is clearly up for grabs.

It really isn't. 

The same scaremongering nonsense has been pedaled for decades. I am surprised anyone on the left thinks there's any mileage left in it.

[Fen Canary 822]

8 hours ago, BigFish said:

Farage, Hannan, Gove, Institute of Economic Affairs.........just a quick list.

Economists then. That’s no great surprise as they’d be against anything they see as not free market. However you know as well as I do if any party seriously campaigned on scrapping the NHS in favour of the American system they’d never be voted in ever again 

[Fen Canary 822]

4 hours ago, ricardo said:

So you still haven't found any such plan in any manifesto?

Of course they haven’t. The Tories have been in power for 36 of the last 50 years. Every election I hear how they’re going to sell off the NHS, and the party that sold off more than anybody was Labour under Blair and his PFI’s

[ricardo 7,395]

It's always been a handy political football and it suits Labour to keep it so. It's something we don't see in other countries.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It really isn't. 

The same scaremongering nonsense has been pedaled for decades. I am surprised anyone on the left thinks there's any mileage left in it.

I'm afraid it definitely is, and the reason there is an ongoing campaign to prevent it is that this government and its Tory predecessors have continually increased the presence of the private sector within the Health Service despite (just as in the railways and other public services) the repeated failure of private companies to deliver what they are contracted to and paid for - they are employed within the health service for idealogical reasons and without proper due diligence or genuine business cases to justify their involvement.

This isn't even something to debate, it is just the reality of what has been happening on the ground for many years. The only debateable point is whether it is going to get better or worse over the next 5 years and I think you'd have to be a supreme optimist to believe that its going to be better. Not impossible of course but everything we know about this government indicates otherwise, as does their track record.

[Herman 9,764]

16 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Economists then. That’s no great surprise as they’d be against anything they see as not free market. However you know as well as I do if any party seriously campaigned on scrapping the NHS in favour of the American system they’d never be voted in ever again 

None of them are economists.

[Fen Canary 822]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

None of them are economists.

They last group are. The rest are free marketeers who think the markets fix everything. None have ever campaigned on scrapping the NHS, and their views on the Health Service aren’t typical of your average voter. Just because a majority of voters agreed with them on the EU doesn’t mean they have to agree with them on every other subject

[Fen Canary 822]

13 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'm afraid it definitely is, and the reason there is an ongoing campaign to prevent it is that this government and its Tory predecessors have continually increased the presence of the private sector within the Health Service despite (just as in the railways and other public services) the repeated failure of private companies to deliver what they are contracted to and paid for - they are employed within the health service for idealogical reasons and without proper due diligence or genuine business cases to justify their involvement.

This isn't even something to debate, it is just the reality of what has been happening on the ground for many years. The only debateable point is whether it is going to get better or worse over the next 5 years and I think you'd have to be a supreme optimist to believe that its going to be better. Not impossible of course but everything we know about this government indicates otherwise, as does their track record.

Labour privatised more of the Health Service than anybody else the last time they were in power 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It's always been a handy political football and it suits Labour to keep it so. It's something we don't see in other countries.

Its been a political football because we have an adversarial two party political system based on a dysfunctional first past the post voting system.

Funnily enough it is also a political football in the US where they also have an adversarial two party political system based on a dysfunctional first past the post voting system.

But you're right that most other countries with multi-party politics based on fairer voting systems have managed to reach much more of a consensus on how best to deliver health care and indeed other public services such as education - another political football in both the UK and US but scarcely anywhere else that comes to mind.

Funny that....

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

Labour privatised more of the Health Service than anybody else the last time they were in power 

I'm afraid trying to rewrite history is not going to get you very far but you're obviously determined to try............🙄

[Herman 9,764]

3 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

They last group are. The rest are free marketeers who think the markets fix everything. None have ever campaigned on scrapping the NHS, and their views on the Health Service aren’t typical of your average voter. Just because a majority of voters agreed with them on the EU doesn’t mean they have to agree with them on every other subject

One's a fascist.

One's an idiot.

One's a liar.

One's a right wing lobby group.

They don't actively campaign to scrap the NHS because as you know that is electoral suicide. But their free market views are clearly known and the NHS is number one target, closely followed by the BBC.

You know a person by the friends they keep.

[Van wink 2,994]

There are some very odd arguments running here, when all we see everyday is the Tories promising unlimited resources, embracing and thanking our NHS.

[ricardo 7,395]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

One's a fascist.

One's an idiot.

One's a liar.

One's a right wing lobby group.

They don't actively campaign to scrap the NHS because as you know that is electoral suicide. But their free market views are clearly known and the NHS is number one target, closely followed by the BBC.

You know a person by the friends they keep.

You are obsessed by this woke  nonsense Herman. I am afraid there is no known cure for it.

[ricardo 7,395]

Just now, Van wink said:

There are some very odd arguments running here, when all we see everyday is the Tories promising unlimited resources, embracing and thanking our NHS.

It's so much against the left's mindset that they are having a collective seizure. 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

It's so much against the left's mindset that they are having a collective seizure. 

They are all struggling at the moment, they dont seem to have any clothes. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Van wink

[Herman 9,764]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You are obsessed by this woke  nonsense Herman. I am afraid there is no known cure for it.

I don't even know what that means.

[Herman 9,764]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

There are some very odd arguments running here, when all we see everyday is the Tories promising unlimited resources, embracing and thanking our NHS.

They haven't had much choice.

[Herman 9,764]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

They are all struggling at the moment, they dont seem to have any clothes. 

I get the feeling all you tories and brexiters are desperately trying to distance yourselves from what you voted for.

[Van wink 2,994]

Well you certainly seem confused. Perhaps you misjudged us.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

I get the feeling all you tories and brexiters are desperately trying to distance yourselves from what you voted for.

You'd be totally wrong then. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

I get the feeling all you tories and brexiters are desperately trying to distance yourselves from what you voted for.

I agree but they're making a really poor fist of it.....😂