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dylanisabaddog

Our fans behaviour at Arsenal

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Not quite sure where I have said anything controversial in either thread other than to slate drunken yobbish behaviour and try to shed light in the other thread on whether there was one fan that was being racist or as the op implied in that thread that there was more than one.  I have not condemned the racist activity because I didn''t want to condemn "fans" if there was only one "fan" that was doing it.  For the record I condemn any racist activity, whether singular or plural - but before condemning anyone surely it''s best to get the facts straight first?

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@LDC

It is all part of a wider context in how people react to these things.

In this thread you''ve taken the OP and ran with it to talk about drunken, loutish fan behaviour despite there not really being any evidence of anything much out of the ordinary.

With Ogogo the immediate response is to downplay it, to question if it happened or how serious it was. Your reaction was more concerned about other fans being tarred with the same brush than about the actual incident and the Norwich fan who reported it.

Basically there is a wider problem of people either not believing racial abuse has happened or downplaying it. Look at the reactions on here to the Mark Sampson affair- most on here were either claiming ''PC gone mad'' or that Aluko had made up or exaggerated her accusations.

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[quote user="king canary"]@LDC

It is all part of a wider context in how people react to these things.

In this thread you''ve taken the OP and ran with it to talk about drunken, loutish fan behaviour despite there not really being any evidence of anything much out of the ordinary.

With Ogogo the immediate response is to downplay it, to question if it happened or how serious it was. Your reaction was more concerned about other fans being tarred with the same brush than about the actual incident and the Norwich fan who reported it.

Basically there is a wider problem of people either not believing racial abuse has happened or downplaying it. Look at the reactions on here to the Mark Sampson affair- most on here were either claiming ''PC gone mad'' or that Aluko had made up or exaggerated her accusations.[/quote]

Racism exists all over the place and it is extremely important to get the facts right before throwing around accusations. That op said "fans" were being racist, suggesting there were at least afew fans doing it - rather different from just one ar$ehole doing it.  I wasn''t attempting to downplay it in the slightest - rather just wanting the truth to take precedence.   As for drunken yobbish behaviour I''ve been to plenty of away matches over the years and seen yobbish drunks spoiling things for our fans around them and setting a bad example.  I was merely commenting on that in this thread and the fact that if it happened on Tuesday, then that was just another example of it. If you want a specific example I will give it to you, but as it was last season is best forgotten. Drunken incapable yobs swearing, falling around, blocking gangways and not moving over and generally being unpleasant in a crowd which is largely family based with people and young children around is out of order.  If it happened on Tuesday - as has been reported - then it would not be a surprise and should be highlighted and criticised. 

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A bloke near me spent most of the game asleep holding a bottle of beer. He woke up in the second half and threw it into the Arsenal supporters. The stewards took him out. I think every club have supporters, who after a sniff of the barmaids apron, want to offer out all the opposing supporters. In the cold light of day, it is pretty pathetic, but it has gone on as long as I have been going. It just takes some people longer to grow up than others. Myself and my girlfriend had a great time, despite the awful performance from the referee, but that was not the first time I have seen Norwich cheated out of the result by incompetent officials.

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It''s football ffs, not the ballet. When the day comes that I can''t meet my mates in the pub beforehand, have a few beers, goad the opposition and get all passionate and let off steam, I will call it a day. See how that does us, bearing in mind that the players have made a big thing of the 12th man.

As for the one racist incident, yes it''s 100% wrong, but the club are dealing with it, no doubt the culprit will be identified and dealt with, so why do we make such a massive deal about it?

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="kingsway"]Unfortunately at London away games its quite common you''ll get groups of blokes who''ve drank all the way down on the train and in the City and generally become an irritation![/quote]Oi....that''s a bit '' London-ist ''.I''m reliably informed by my travelling companions that I''m quite good at doing that all over the country [:D][/quote]

Hence the level of policing by the Met !

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]You weren’t at the match Lakey so maybe you shouldn’t be commenting on our fans’ behaviour at it.

Every Norwich fan I came across was good natured and represented our club well. Don’t let an incredibly small minority tar the reputation of the rest of us.[/quote]

Thats why the small number of idiots need to be identified and banned.

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[quote user="king canary"]@LDC

It is all part of a wider context in how people react to these things.

In this thread you''ve taken the OP and ran with it to talk about drunken, loutish fan behaviour despite there not really being any evidence of anything much out of the ordinary.

With Ogogo the immediate response is to downplay it, to question if it happened or how serious it was. Your reaction was more concerned about other fans being tarred with the same brush than about the actual incident and the Norwich fan who reported it.

Basically there is a wider problem of people either not believing racial abuse has happened or downplaying it. Look at the reactions on here to the Mark Sampson affair- most on here were either claiming ''PC gone mad'' or that Aluko had made up or exaggerated her accusations.[/quote]

Not sure I agree with your last statement. I think any suggestion of racial abuse see''s an incident elevated immediately and treated with the utmost seriousness (to the extent that often the premise of innocent until proven guilty goes out the window) rather than see''s it downplayed. i think that''s probably what LDC or other posters may be getting at if they talk in terms of establishing the facts before people (or in this case our fans) are publically labelled as racist simply because its looked upon so seriously. When you actually read Ogogo''s account of the incident its clear it was one old bloke out of 9,000 fans who were at the match and not concerted racist abuse from a group of fans and yet if you read the "Ogogo racially abused by Norwich fans" style headlines then you might get a different impression.

I don''t think people downplay racism at all, quite the opposite as the Aluko affair actually illustrated. There is no way that episode would have exploded as it did had he made a couple of similarly insensitive comments to white players (which i suspect he probably did given what has emerged about him and his management style).

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The story isn''t about drunken, loutish fan behaviour. |We don''t know whether this racist guy had been drinking or not. Neither is the story about banter or goading or any other forms of winding up the opposition that goes on in football and is all part of the football package.

But it is about somebody who has racially abused one of our supporters and needs to be identified and dealt with. And being an elderly person is not mitigating circumstances, he should know better than youngsters, having lived through the unhappy days of open racism.

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[quote user="Rock The Boat"]The story isn''t about drunken, loutish fan behaviour. |We don''t know whether this racist guy had been drinking or not. Neither is the story about banter or goading or any other forms of winding up the opposition that goes on in football and is all part of the football package.

But it is about somebody who has racially abused one of our supporters and needs to be identified and dealt with. And being an elderly person is not mitigating circumstances, he should know better than youngsters, having lived through the unhappy days of open racism.[/quote]

RTB, there are two stories here, one about a racist and one about yobbish behaviour by others, probably fuelled by alcohol.  This thread was supposed to be about fans'' behaviour but someone introduced the racist story into this one and the two have got mixed in together. 

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Nobody is disputing that though are they? They hopefully will be identified and dealt with appropriately if it is proven that they said/did what has been claimed.

I was merely pointing out that what happened is an isolated incident involving one person, which may not be the perception others have if they read the headlines and that because such incidents provoke such headlines/attention I understand the point (that I think LDC was making) that its important to understand all the facts and not condemn our wider support unfairly.

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There was a group of lads in the lower tier to the left who continually moaned at the other Norwich fans for not singing throughout the entire game, not that much of an issue but when another fan asked them to stop standing on the chairs and swearing so much due to the younger fans nearby they started screaming abuse at him.

When Arsenal got the 1st goal 4 of them started jumping on the chairs deliberately trying to break them, a few fans asked them to stop this and at least 2 were threatened with a punch in the face.

Whether this group had been drinking earlier or not; there''s clearly no need for this type of behaviour.

Yes, there were probably a lot of casual fans who got tickets that have not gone to a home/away league game for a while if at all but at the end of the day were all there to support the team.

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