Whether You're Pro or Con On Worthy, He's Perplexing

[YankeeCanary 0]

Too many of us have utilised an inordinate amount of verbage with our respective opinions on why he should stay or why he should go. Regardless of which side of the issue you reside on there is something we all should be able to agree on in this regard. Nigel does not do himself any favours when it comes to communication. He is not only the conduit for the players but also the fans. One of his key responsibilities is effective communication. His poor choice of words, to put it kindly, in the Reading post-match comments caused a lot of fans to get up in arms ( appropriately so, in my view ). Now some could say "but he apologised". Even on the apology his words were half-hearted ( if I offended some of you....he already knew that he had so why mince words). So he had two opportunites to get fans onside and he blew both of them. If he had simply explained in a calm way, when asked the question, why he had removed McVeigh it would have been a better approach. Many may not have agreed with him but they could have been swayed if they were given an opportunity to listen to his reasoning. They were not.

In the latest scenario, with Simon Charlton being played ( out of position ) ahead of someone ( Jarret ) who''s qualities Nigel was singing from the rooftop before the season commenced, Nigel again, having witnessed what everyone else has, forgoes an opportunity to be a little more fan-friendly by explaining his rationale. Now, of course, I know there could be those of you who will say he''s only responsible to explaining to the board, he does not want to air private conversations etc etc. But the fans are being alienated. Even if it wasn''t an element of his job ( it is, however ) the smart thing is to use words/reasoning etc to get the fans onside so that they are encouraged to focus totally on supporting the team out of the doldrums. I''m sorry, but I just don''t see Nigel being smart enough to figure this out. If he is, then something ( pride perhaps ) is getting in the way. All of us should be able to agree that any one individuals preferences need to be secondary to the greater good of the organisation. 

[ron obvious 1,711]

Firstly, name me ten professional football managers who are more articulate than Worthington.

Secondly, name ten managers who regularly explain, in the sort of detail you require, why they made the tactical decisions/substitutions that they did.

Nigel is a rather dour, rather cautious manager. BUT he is a decent, honest man & he is trying to build a team to survive in the prem. on a restricted budget. Also, I''m afraid NFC is not going to be the first choice for every 18-25 year old fun-seeking footballer & I think he''s done incredibly well to get the likes of Ashton to move here.

Would you really prefer to see the sort of manager who allows his team to treat an opponent the way Millwall treated Huckerby last week? They were lucky not be jailed for common assault.

Of course Worthington cannot care what the fans think of individual decisions on a particular day. He has, & had, no reason to apolgise. The alternative is to be paralyzed with indecision, lest you offend someone - which you will ALWAYS do.

But he does need to start winning.

[BIC 0]

I think I''d have to agree with that YC.

I''m sure everyone, including Worthy''s supporters (and I still consider myself one of them... just), would have experienced bewilderment at some of the tactics and selections or substitutions he''s employed over the years and he does himself no favours by not explaining them in public, unless of course he''s unable to explain them.

This may have something to do with the fact that he''s ''not bothered'' about what the fans think, but surely it''d be better for all concerned if he helped us understand a little better, wouldn''t it?

Tuesday''s decision to put Charlton in midfield ahead of Jarrett for example. Maybe Jarrett''s totally out of form, but Charlton''s hardly been on fire has he, not to mention that midfield is not his favoured position. It would''ve been good to know why Worthy chose this, but no.

What can we do but think he''s making mistakes when we don''t know what his reasoning is?

Someone at the club get Nigel on a media/public relations course for everyone''s sake.

[Dicky 0]

Worthington has virtually always handled himself in a very professional manner with the media - one time where he may have been clumsy does not change that.

Yankee Canary, you will always look for ways to criticise Worthy because you have a very negative opinion on him.  If you don''t like someone you will look for the bad in them - human nature.  I feel that Worthy is a good, honest man who is passionate about my club - I can see a lot of good in him.

[gazzathegreat 0]

[quote]I think I''d have to agree with that YC. I''m sure everyone, including Worthy''s supporters (and I still consider myself one of them... just), would have experienced bewilderment at some of the tactics ...[/quote]

BIC

Don''t know whether you are aware, but Munby is something big in PR, or at least used to be, so you would have thought could maybe ''coach'' Worthy into being more media friendly. 

Not sure just how media friendly he has to be though. It''s one thing to be declare that you don''t give a toss what the fans think of your substitutions, but another altogether for him to always let the public know what is going on.

Take today, one way or another I have heard various rumours concerning Worthy, the Board and an attempt to bring back Gary Holt!  I don''t expect Worthy or the Board to comment on them, nor any of the rumours circulating about why Francis really left. 

Although I don''t particularly rate Worthy as a coach and manager he has in my experience been very honest when questioned at forums and the like. 

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

More responses from Andrew and Dicky that completely miss the point that''s being made, while they wax eloquent on several other points that only serve to illustrate their narrow outlook. Let''s take a look at the point I was making. I suggest that Worthy is not the most effective of communicators and, consequently, while missing opportunities to galvanise the supporters to his and, therefore, the teams cause, he actually is augmenting rather than reducing the frustration of at least a healthy percentage of fans. What''s the evidence for this? First of all many fans are picking up on the fact that Worthy has a certain number of phrases he uses for post-match comments that is starting to sound like a broken record, regardless of the performance and result. Many have commented on these phrases...I don''t need to repeat and add salt into the wound. The point of  this thread was to give two examples of where Worthy, at a time when the club is clearly struggling and many fans are becoming disenchanted, could have used his communication with the fans as an opportunity. I seek agreement on whether that would have been the smart thing to do. Not only did he not do so, he adds further to the fans frustration and, in some cases, incites anger. The correct course of action was a no-brainer.

Do Andrew and Dicky respond on these two specific examples? No, because to do so requires them to focus on a specific issue, the obvious answer to which does not suit their blinkered approach. Instead, they pepper me with a barrage of input such as: name ten managers more articulate and willing to provide the sort of detail I require ( the detail is in your head...I''m speaking of two specific issues that he turned into a negative&nbsp, Worthy is an honest and decent man ( I agree...but what''s that got to do with the price of tea in China ), accuse me of always looking for ways to criticise Worthy ( not true Dicky, ask FatMan Fat...at the beginning of last season I was a big defender of Worthy and said he deserved time to learn how to cope at the higher level ), suggest that Worthy did nothing that he had to apologise for ( if that''s true then why was he sent back to the media to apologise ), would I like a manager of the kind they have at Millwall etc etc etc. Guys, please surprise me and answer the two issues I raised as to whether Worthy could have turned those two issues into a fan-friendly communication.

[BIC 0]

I didn''t know that actually Gazza. Munby must cringe sometimes when listening to the post-match interviews, know-what-I-mean.

I don''t think Worthy''s too bad at public relations really. It just strikes me that the best way of deflecting some of the criticism aimed at him would be to let people know a bit more about his thinking.

I''m sure he has quite reasonable explanations for most of his actions, but we just have no idea what they are!

[ncfc0405 0]

andrew young - superb post - my sentiments entirely, absolutely.

I sometimes think some people would like an fans internet poll at 2 o''clock on a Saturday afternoon to pick the team. Management by committee. Analysis paralysis. Disastrous.

Of course the flipside of this is, as you correctly point out in your pithy final word, with exclusive authority comes sole responsibility, and while I am prepared to give Worthy the benefit of the doubt this season (particularly in light of the long injury list and lack of any obvious, available successor anyway), ultimately someone has to take responsibility for performance and be held accountable.

[Robert N. LiM 6,299]

I actually think Worthington is excellent with the press. He never blames referees for our misfortunes (and is an example to virtually all other managers in this regard: Neil Warnock has lost one game this season and is on an FA charge!). All the ''know what I means'' and stock phrases are far better than being open and honest - we know from this board that as soon as someone expresses an opinion, ten people disagree. If Worthy explained every decision he made, he would actually be opening himself up to far more criticism.

I think his job is to manage the side. I don''t care what he says after the game. But while he has made mistakes in public (criticising Blackburn last season, for instance), he has also used the media well. Giving the team public backing in the national press after the Arsenal game, before slamming them in the quieter waters of the EDP was extremely shrewd - kept the pressure off the team while making it clear that their performances had been unacceptable.

I''d rather he was bland than shot his mouth off like Ferguson, Warnock, Souness etc and made us a laughing stock.

He should be judged on the way he runs the team. And that''s where the problems start.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Come on Dicky ( Andrew too ). Answer the two specific issues. Could Worthy have done a better job of getting fans onside rather than offside. You see, I think if you can learn to just take baby steps, with a little encouragement, you will finally be able to see the light at a full gallop.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

Though sure we''d all love to know what goes on behind closed doors, that''s never going to happen. It doesn''t at other clubs and why would it? For instance, if Worthy played Charlton to wind up Jarret in the attempt to make him fight for his place/perform better then we''re never going to know. I bet often the players don''t even know why a decision has been made (not sure that''s so good though). I agree that NW has made a rod for his own back at times and sometimes an honest admission that things aren''t going so well and why would probably help everyone. BTW, would people stop saying Worthy doesn''t care what the fans think, he said he didn''t care what they SAY. Very different. Thank gawd, we don''t generally have to justify forever an off the cuff remark made in the heat of the moment, though many a husband/wife might disagree with that ;-)

[ron obvious 1,711]

[quote]More responses from Andrew and Dicky that completely miss the point that''s being made, while they wax eloquent on several other points that only serve to illustrate their narrow outlook. Let''s take a ...[/quote]

" First of all many fans are picking up on the fact that Worthy has a certain number of phrases he uses for post-match comments that is starting to sound like a broken record, regardless of the performance and result."

Not Oscar Wilde then, unlike all the other managers & pundits on MOTD,

 "The point of  this thread was to give two examples of where Worthy, at a time when the club is clearly struggling and many fans are becoming disenchanted, could have used his communication with the fans as an opportunity. "

And my point was that you are expecting something that no other manager delivers, Perhaps you could name me ONE manager who consistently acheives your high standards; remember, I''ll be taking notes ...

"the obvious answer to which does not suit their blinkered approach"

Blinkered? Because we don''t agree with your blinkered approach?

" Worthy is an honest and decent man ( I agree...but what''s that got to do with the price of tea in China )"

Perhaps because I see winning at any cost is not the point of football - or any sport cone to that. Maybe it''s an American thing.

Still, I''ll keep trying to take those baby steps until I see things with the same magical clarity that only your inner light can reveal to us all.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Hi SPat. No surprise that you join the same parade as Andrew and Dicky. Why not simply answer the two questions that were asked? I''ll make it even simpler....just answer the first one regarding the McVeigh substitution in the Reading game. Would an ASTUTE  manager, on speaking to the media and knowing the dismal start his club is having and that a lot of fans are disgruntled, have chosen option A) getting his shorts in a twist and taking it personally, thereby putting his foot in his mouth and further annoying fans or B) turning a negative into a positive by a reasonable explanation of why he took the action. There must have been a reason right? It certainly did not look to be based on the way McVeigh was performing so then what????

I understand this is a small point at this juncture but do you understand that the cumulative effect of all these small points is hurting rather than helping the cause. 

[YankeeCanary 0]

So, Andrew, answer directly the one question I put to SPat. Never mind all the smoke and mirrors. Just answer the one simple question: what was it better for an astute manager to do....option a) or b)???? 

[Herb 0]

[quote]So, Andrew, answer directly the one question I put to SPat. Never mind all the smoke and mirrors. Just answer the one simple question: what was it better for an astute manager to do....option a) or b)...[/quote]

Its a loaded question, thats probably why no ones answered it. I don''t want anyone, least of all you putting words in my mouth.One incident does not define whether a manager is "astute" or not*(* except on Planet YC)

[beelsie 0]

YC, Here goes, I would say that Worthy is no more astute than any other manager that may be available to us, or any one else employed in the echelons of football for that matter.  His words on that occasion were as ill chosen, as much as was his replacement of Mc Veigh. There are many other managers out there who are unlikely to carry much weight when it comes to intellectual ability.

Look at the England coach for a wide and extreme comparison, on four million a year, the boobs that he makes with the cream of British football and his private antics with the media. I ask you YC, what on earth, chance do we have when it comes to getting a competant manager, from what''s out there, at what we can afford, and coupled with our purchasing kitty at zero, I say ,no chance.  Better to stick with what we''ve got and hope that our man will learn to be harder on his training staff, which is where I believe the main problems to be. They are unable to use Huckerby in our team and still play good defensive football, as many other clubs found. There is an answer but I am willing to bet no one dare make the right decision.

[The Great Drinkell 51]

Having just read this post, I have the solution I am sure all you "worty outer" would appreciate a manager like Ferguson( who was given time and Money to build a team and look whwt happened there) or Mourinio who was given money ! if not timeand inherited a good team. What happens during the lean times? they refuse to speak to the press!

 I think we can all say the undiplomatic thing in the heat of the moment but if we understand what was being said rather than being over sensitive about what was said, then the WLY issue isn''t an issue.

Solution to the problem

a media boycott from the management and players.- or at least a 48hr cooling down period to prepare the correct "spin"

[a1canary 0]

I know we''re supposed to be trying to ease off on the personal jibes and sticking to proper, civil debate, whatever that is, but i can contain myself no longer!

I''d like to just say, Yankee, you''re a...    But then the post would be censored. 

But seriously, were you ignored as a child or something? Can you''re own sense of self importance get any more inflated? You don''t debate, you lecture people about your own opinions as if they are all that matter. Maybe people will stop getting personal when people like you stop irritating others with your know it all attitudes and your ''faux'' respect for other people''s opinions as some sort of final validation of your own points.
"Regardless of which side of the issue you reside on there is something we all should be able to agree on in this regard..."

I''ve got news for you YC, i don''t. And i''m not the only one. His communication is fine.

"Answer the question, answer the question" Listen to yourself!  As herb intimated, it''s a damn stupid question, the answer to which means nothing. What is it, YC''s measure of an astute manager? The YC astute manager test?

Guess what, he got fed up with a load of armchair fans telling him how to do his job and he told them to get lost in as many words. Quite right too. Ok, in the cold light of day he may well have taken the dimplomatic line. But no, he lashed out. And then you come along... "He must lack in astuteness must he - Yoda Canary knows it!"

Just imagine when he''s in the press conferences, (as well as every other second he''s in the public eye) he''s on the managerial football pitch, and yes, after the Reading game he got a booking. It happens. People take the wrong decision in the heat of the moment, so do players and so do managers. The only difference being, managers on the whole don''t admit it.

While we''re at it, lets apply the Yoda, sorry Yankee Astuteness Test to other people. Alex Ferguson say, famed for his legendary red faced outbursts at press conferences, launching tirades of abuse at reporters.

What do you think he''s say to you if you questioned his substitutions? Do you think he cares? Can''t be very astute can he?!

 

[ncfc0405 0]

Yankee - I think you''re missing a key point here: not all fans want the same thing. Whatever Worthy does or says he will please some fans and upset others.

To make you happy he apparently has to publicly justify his decisions, explain every rationale, provide insight into the ambience of the dressing room and the training ground, and generally be as open as possible about life at Colney and Carrow Road. That is what appears to keep you ''on-side''.

For me, that is a sign of weakness and lack of confidence. I want Worthy to keep his mouth shut, to demonstrate and stress at every opportunity that he and he alone picks the team (and takes responsibility for those decisions) and generally build a closed, tight knit, us-against-the-world team spirit and mentality (just like, in my opinion, Mourinho and Ferguson do).

Of course I also want him to win games, and I am concerned he is not doing this at the moment, but to rectify that I want him to get tougher and more focussed, not more open and conciliatory.

I''m not saying my way is right and your wrong, merely that they are different, and by angering you, he pleases me.

So I don''t think it''s as simple as a) and b).

 

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Herb, it''s not a loaded question at all. A loaded question is, by devious means or wordsmithing, trying to trap someone into saying something they otherwise would not have said.. I could not be more straightforward. Look at the title of the thread. What I''m basically suggesting is that, whether you are for or against Worthy, here are a couple of examples that must have most of us, if we''re honest, scratching our heads in puzzlement. Incidentally, if you try really hard, you may be able to participate without your nasty little shots.